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I believe the issue of falsely labelling certain oils with "synthetic" may very well be one of many causal factors in sludge reports.
The real causes of the Toyota specific issue are still unknown, and there has been a tremendous amount of speculation about it over the years.
I disagree with Charlene Blake's narrow focussed assessment of the sludge problem.
She blames Toyota exclusively, where in fact the issue is a complex one with any number of possibilities.
Her frequent appearances on the net are characterized by generalities and politicized rhetoric which appear to be thinly veiled attempts to raise alarm by innuendo and inference.
When pressed for facts and verification, she craftily avoids these challenges, and when she does respond, it's always with more alarmist rhetoric.
The absence of factual and verifiable evidence in any of her remarks is conspicuous; it certainly doesn't point to credibility.
While I hesitate to use the term 'lies' in describing much of the rhetoric she liberally dispenses, I must say it seems she does take some pretty wild liberties with the truth!!
Silverfox from Ontario, Canada:

Interesting enough, the person who has been most vocal against the "Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution: Toyota Engine Oil sludge" online petition with over 2,000 consumer signatures (and who has posted loudly against any formal consumer advocacy in this matter) is someone who also uses the words "speculation, rhetoric; thinly veiled, alarmist; and innuendo and inference" in so many of his posts.

FACTS, FACTS, and MORE FACTS:

1) MILLIONS of Toyota and Lexus vehicle owners are affected by the premature demise of their engines due to ENGINE OIL SLUDGE.
2) The problem has been recorded online for YEARS by Toyota and Lexus owners with very low mileage
3) I carried on after several very vocal Toyota owners TRIED to get something done about this. My initial postings resulted in over 6,000 follow-up postings at Edmund's Town Hall (now CarSpace.com). Edmund's banned me from posting when an Ontario "regular" there who uses the same words as the above poster filed complaints---multiple ones. Seems someone was as the "gate" to make sure this issue did not result in a consumer backlash on Edmund's Town Hall.
4) The above did NOT work. This "cat" got out of the "bag." Thousands and thousands of Toyota owners assembled online in the now defunct "The Complaint Station for Toyota" and "Cartrackers.com" Toyota forum. You see, HACKERS made sure those sites did NOT stay up any longer. After all, TCS had over 10,000 postings on Toyota and Lexus engine oil sludge and the Toyota section of that site was THE MOST POPULAR POSTING SITE on the entire web site at the time of the FATAL HACKING! Moderators admitted to the sabotage going on there. Yes, quite the story!
5) Thousands of attorneys were consulted on behalf of individual Toyota owners who were FED UP with this unbelievable injustice! Then, a class action lawsuit resulted....even a Toyota owner attorney began to gather evidence in Idaho when she was callously brushed aside by Toyota when her Sienna developed sludge.
6) Toyota came out with the "Special Adjustment Policy" or "SPA" (sounds like a place to relax, doesn't it?) in February of 2002.
7) Very angry Toyota owners spoke out in Automotive News (a well-respected AUTO TRADE MAGAZINE) and told their horror stories.
8) Toyota came out with the "Customer Support Program for Engine Oil Gelation in April of 2002. Toyota PROMISED to repair or replace engines in the sludge-affected vehicles when satisfactory maintenance could be shown! Why, Toyota spokespeople said that the oil change receipts weren't that important and that only one per year was needed to prove maintenance.
9) I was interviewed and the subject of an article in May of 2002 in Automotive News magazine about how the web is used for AUTO CONSUMER ADVOCACY.
9) Mr. Bruce C. Ertmann at Toyota Motor Sales flew out to my area at the same time and met with me at my local Toyota dealership. He said he would be willing to get me another Toyota or another automaker's vehicle. He really didn't want to hear about the thousands upon thousands of other Toyota owners. However he did meet QUICKLY with a Highlander owner in Reston and PURCHASED BACK his vehicle with 12,000 miles on the odometer and SLUDGE at just one year old!!
10) Very soon after, Toyota owners began to report online and to me that Toyota WAS NOT HONORING ITS OWN PROGRAM for engine oil sludge. Though it stated it would repair and replace engines, the owners reported that it would not and "slammed the door shut" in their faces. This was documented time and time again.
11) I decided in March of 2003, one FULL YEAR after the CSP came out, to create an online Toyota petition for engine oil sludge victims. I wanted DATA to support the fact that Toyota owners were not being treated as Toyota says they were going to be and the fact that Toyota engine sludge was occurring in MORE than just the vehicles listed by Toyota CSP. I wanted to know what others were experiencing. Many Toyota owners report failed emissions testing and ABNORMAL engine oil analysis results (including excessive fuel in the oil, rapid TBN decrease, high silicon levels, and high nitration levels).
12) My petition began to be sabotaged immediately by someone using the same language the above poster uses, coincidentally. It was clear that someone did not want the DATA to come forth!
13) A nationwide CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT was filed after the CSP because Toyota owners were not happy about Toyota's resolution. This class action lawsuit was subsequently SETTLED QUIETLY BY TOYOTA!
14) The petition entries continue to confirm that Toyota dealerships are denying CSP claims and that it is not replacing the engines as promised.
15) The petition confirms that Toyota sludge CONTINUES in the newer models and some 2003-2006 owners are NOT HAPPY!
16) Toyota still has not resolved this problem for thousands who have been affected by engine oil sludge!

I will take the challenge of debating you on this issue! Show PROOF that the above 16 items are not FACT!

This is good 'ole grassroots auto consumer organizing. Seems some companies will go to ANY EXTREME to stop the same! Just how far will Toyota go online to see to it that the subject of Toyota and Lexus engine oil sludge is buried?

Your turn....

Charlene Blake
charleneblake2011@gmail.com
Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution: Engine Oil Sludge
Last edited by charleneblake
quote:
Originally posted by silverfox:
I believe the issue of falsely labelling certain oils with "synthetic" may very well be one of many causal factors in sludge reports. (clipped the rest...)


One other thing, Silverfox...for YEARS there has been an attempt made to distract away from the possibility of an INHERENT TOYOTA ENGINE PROBLEM by those who insist that synthetic oil will solve the problem.

FACT!! There is ample evidence from Toyota and Lexus owners that synthetic oil WILL NOT SOLVE THE TOYOTA SLUDGE PROBLEM! Owners who have BOTH properly maintained their vehicles AND used true synthetic oils have been victims of Toyota engine oil sludge. Synthetic oil did NOT prevent the sludge development.

The people who continue to spread this propaganda are doing so intentionally in order to continue to BLAME the OIL if they can't blame the owner!

Toyota refuses to acknowledge its TRUE ROLE in the sludge matter. It refuses to take responsibility.

Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
charleneblake@cox.net
Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution: Toyota Engine Oil Sludge

P.S. When I first posted about Toyota engine oil sludge on the Noria site some years ago, I waited to see how long it would take a "Toyota protector" to surface. It would be interesting for someone to research this and do an analysis of the postings. Seems great lengths are taken to track anyone who posts about a WIDESPREAD AND KNOWN ISSUE in Toyota and Lexus vehicles. PR control is alive and well right now at this company. Corporate intervention comes in the form of "control" of CGM (customer-generated media). Seems that CONTROL is easier than RESPONSIBILITY! Comforting thought...
Ottobooster, my reply to Silverfox will give you the FACTS that you require. Here they are:

(Interesting enough, the person who has been most vocal against the "Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution: Toyota Engine Oil sludge" online petition with over 2,000 consumer signatures (and who has posted loudly against any formal consumer advocacy in this matter) is someone who also uses the words "speculation, rhetoric; thinly veiled, alarmist; and innuendo and inference" in so many of his posts.)

FACTS, FACTS, and MORE FACTS:

1) MILLIONS of Toyota and Lexus vehicle owners are affected by the premature demise of their engines due to ENGINE OIL SLUDGE.
2) The problem has been recorded online for YEARS by Toyota and Lexus owners with very low mileage
3) I carried on after several very vocal Toyota owners TRIED to get something done about this. My initial postings resulted in over 6,000 follow-up postings at Edmund's Town Hall (now CarSpace.com). Edmund's banned me from posting when an Ontario "regular" there who uses the same words as the above poster filed complaints---multiple ones. Seems someone was as the "gate" to make sure this issue did not result in a consumer backlash on Edmund's Town Hall.
4) The above did NOT work. This "cat" got out of the "bag." Thousands and thousands of Toyota owners assembled online in the now defunct "The Complaint Station for Toyota" and "Cartrackers.com" Toyota forum. You see, HACKERS made sure those sites did NOT stay up any longer. After all, TCS had over 10,000 postings on Toyota and Lexus engine oil sludge and the Toyota section of that site was THE MOST POPULAR POSTING SITE on the entire web site at the time of the FATAL HACKING! Moderators admitted to the sabotage going on there. Yes, quite the story!
5) Thousands of attorneys were consulted on behalf of individual Toyota owners who were FED UP with this unbelievable injustice! Then, a class action lawsuit resulted....even a Toyota owner attorney began to gather evidence in Idaho when she was callously brushed aside by Toyota when her Sienna developed sludge.
6) Toyota came out with the "Special Adjustment Policy" or "SPA" (sounds like a place to relax, doesn't it?) in February of 2002.
7) Very angry Toyota owners spoke out in Automotive News (a well-respected AUTO TRADE MAGAZINE) and told their horror stories.
8) Toyota came out with the "Customer Support Program for Engine Oil Gelation in April of 2002. Toyota PROMISED to repair or replace engines in the sludge-affected vehicles when satisfactory maintenance could be shown! Why, Toyota spokespeople said that the oil change receipts weren't that important and that only one per year was needed to prove maintenance.
9) I was interviewed and the subject of an article in May of 2002 in Automotive News magazine about how the web is used for AUTO CONSUMER ADVOCACY.
9) Mr. Bruce C. Ertmann at Toyota Motor Sales flew out to my area at the same time and met with me at my local Toyota dealership. He said he would be willing to get me another Toyota or another automaker's vehicle. He really didn't want to hear about the thousands upon thousands of other Toyota owners. However he did meet QUICKLY with a Highlander owner in Reston and PURCHASED BACK his vehicle with 12,000 miles on the odometer and SLUDGE at just one year old!!
10) Very soon after, Toyota owners began to report online and to me that Toyota WAS NOT HONORING ITS OWN PROGRAM for engine oil sludge. Though it stated it would repair and replace engines, the owners reported that it would not and "slammed the door shut" in their faces. This was documented time and time again.
11) I decided in March of 2003, one FULL YEAR after the CSP came out, to create an online Toyota petition for engine oil sludge victims. I wanted DATA to support the fact that Toyota owners were not being treated as Toyota says they were going to be and the fact that Toyota engine sludge was occurring in MORE than just the vehicles listed by Toyota CSP. I wanted to know what others were experiencing. Many Toyota owners report failed emissions testing and ABNORMAL engine oil analysis results (including excessive fuel in the oil, rapid TBN decrease, high silicon levels, and high nitration levels).
12) My petition began to be sabotaged immediately by someone using the same language the above poster uses, coincidentally. It was clear that someone did not want the DATA to come forth!
13) A nationwide CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT was filed after the CSP because Toyota owners were not happy about Toyota's resolution. This class action lawsuit was subsequently SETTLED QUIETLY BY TOYOTA!
14) The petition entries continue to confirm that Toyota dealerships are denying CSP claims and that it is not replacing the engines as promised.
15) The petition confirms that Toyota sludge CONTINUES in the newer models and some 2003-2006 owners are NOT HAPPY!
16) Toyota still has not resolved this problem for thousands who have been affected by engine oil sludge!

I will take the challenge of debating you on this issue! Show PROOF that the above 16 items are not FACT!

This is good 'ole grassroots auto consumer organizing. Seems some companies will go to ANY EXTREME to stop the same! Just how far will Toyota go online to see to it that the subject of Toyota and Lexus engine oil sludge is buried?

Your turn....

Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
charleneblake@cox.net
Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution: Engine Oil Sludge

P.S. Synthetic oil has NOT prevented the development of Toyota engine oil sludge in properly-maintained vehicles. It is a red herring to blame either the oil or the owner for this problem in a Toyota or Lexus. It would seem that Toyota and the "Toyota-protector" posters are just fine with the distraction away from TOYOTA, the company, though.
quote:
Originally posted by scotchnsoda:
I quoted Charlene Blake's post, above, and now would like to comment on it and others by the same author in this forum:

First question needing to be addressed is "Why is Toyota being singled out and badmouthed over any other carmaker?"
Are there no other auto manufacturers in this world?
Is Toyota the only auto manufacturer guilty of the sins alleged?
Why (and how) is Toyota any different than any of the the others? (clipped rest...)


Toyota and Lexus are "being singled out" because THEY have a MAJOR engine oil sludge problem that has NOT been properly resolved! THESE OWNERS are not interested in what other automakers are doing as they don't own these makes.

Yes, there are other automakers. What do THEY have to do with this TOYOTA and LEXUS ENGINE OIL SLUDGE PROBLEM? How will the problems in the other makes help THEM?

Let's remember that it has been TOYOTA telling TV audiences (and now online audiences) that its vehicles are above the rest, correct? Why are we now going to surmise that Toyota vehicles are "like the rest?" Toyota has made claims about the quality of its vehicles; it has not backed up these claims for the affected Toyota and Lexus sludge victims.

The distracting away from the REAL ISSUE has been going on for YEARS. If one thing is quite clear, it is that Toyota never planned to let its valued vehicle owners know the TRUTH about how engine oil sludge develops in its engines. It wishes to lay the blame with either the owners or the oil or the maintenance facility.

NOTHING has changed since the CSP was implemented by Toyota itself or since the Toyota and Lexus owners brought and settled the class action lawsuit. Toyota sludge is alive and well!

Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
charlene.blake@cox.net
Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution: Engine Oil Sludge
http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html
quote:
Originally posted by Steve L:
The problem here is simple, and Toyota has identified it. It is simply owners who do not use good oils and go too long between changes.

Sludge is ONLY formed when using PETROLEUM oils. At high heat, petroleum oil forms sludge.

Solution? Use ONLY a PREMIUM 100% synthetic Oil. No more sludge.

As far as the other ideas suggested like changing to a cooler thermostat, etc. DON'T DO IT!! That engine and computer is designed to run at a certain temperature. And, putting in a cooler thermostat can actually cause your engine to run hotter, just like having no thermostat.

A thermostat is designed to keep the coolant in the radiator for a certain period of time. Then at the desired temp it opens and the coolant flows. Opening too soon due to a lower temperature can cause the coolant to flow out too quickly and not have the time in front of the airflow needed to cool.

Every engine is designed to run at a specific temperature.


Steve:

Paragraphs #1, #2, and #3 are totally incorrect!

For Ottobooster, Silverfox, and others, please cite the evidence that confirms these statements. The TRUTH must be told, not covered up!

Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
charleneblake@cox.net
Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution: Engine Oil Sludge
http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html
Scotchnsoda, maybe you have had a few two many?

I am not a "prolific spammer" by any stretch. I am a VERY involved auto consumer advocate and have been for over a decade now. I think the auto consumer should receive JUSTICE when applicable. I don't mind speaking out about that. Nothing could be more true than in the Toyota and Lexus engine oil sludge matter.

I see that you, Ottobooster, and Steve came here expressly to respond to my postings...out of the blue? Interesting...

I am happy to continue the dialogue about Toyota and Lexus engine oil sludge and the horrible consequences of the same for the owners of these vehicles.

I am not going to be distracted about the oil or maintenance issues because the are NOT the most important factor in this case. The ENGINE is the most important factor and I have yet to see Toyota provide the owners with PROOF that this engine treats motor oil well! Indeed, I have plenty of proof to the contrary though, beginning with my own engine oil analyses.

Alas, no one at Toyota will recognize what these sludge-affected Toyota and Lexus engines do to the innocent oil or the innocent vehicle owner!

Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
charleneblake@cox.net

Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution: Engine Oil Sludge
http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html
quote:
Originally posted by silverfox:
I believe the issue of falsely labelling certain oils with "synthetic" may very well be one of many causal factors in sludge reports.
The real causes of the Toyota specific issue are still unknown, and there has been a tremendous amount of speculation about it over the years.
I disagree with Charlene Blake's narrow focussed assessment of the sludge problem.
She blames Toyota exclusively, where in fact the issue is a complex one with any number of possibilities.
Her frequent appearances on the net are characterized by generalities and politicized rhetoric which appear to be thinly veiled attempts to raise alarm by innuendo and inference.
When pressed for facts and verification, she craftily avoids these challenges, and when she does respond, it's always with more alarmist rhetoric.
The absence of factual and verifiable evidence in any of her remarks is conspicuous; it certainly doesn't point to credibility.
While I hesitate to use the term 'lies' in describing much of the rhetoric she liberally dispenses, I must say it seems she does take some pretty wild liberties with the truth!!


Having read her long winded responses (how many does she need to make a point???)there is absolutely no doubt she is LYING through her teeth! (
I originally hesitated to use that word, but what she has written cannot be considered anything but LIES!!
"Millions of sludge affected Toyotas??"
Yikes!!
There's an exaggeration which goes far beyond imagination--it falls into a wildly delusional category for sure.
It's just not true--so far from the truth as to be unbelievable.
Why anyone would go so far beyond reality raises serious questions as to someone's sanity!!

Next, she infers there are "Many low mileage Toyotas that were sludged"!!
Another outragious embellishment--not quite a lie but surely an irresponsible distortion of fact. (A lie, but by another definition perhaps??)
The only low mileage sludged engines came about as a result of neglected oil changes--and that's a documented fact!!
I'll wager this contention is based solely on a few posts or emails she may have received--but no real documented and verified proff from anyone!
One can easily show how distorted and embellished the rest of her laims are, but why bother?
When someone predicates a response with outright
lies, the rest of what is said becomes tainted.
Charlene Blake has proven every one of my earlier contentions with such blatent and illogical LIES!!
Last edited by silverfox
quote:
Originally posted by silverfox:
(snipped first part) Next, she infers there are "Many low mileage Toyotas that were sludged"!!
Another outragious embellishment--not quite a lie but surely an irresponsible distortion of fact. (A lie, but by another definition perhaps??)
The only low mileage sludged engines came about as a result of neglected oil changes--and that's a documented fact!!(last part snipped)


Silverfox, please cite how you know that every low mileage sludged engine came about as a result of neglected oil changes! Have you personally noted all of them at Toyota? Do you work for Toyota or have privilege to see such documentation? Interesting that you make a global claim and yet you are not affiliated with Toyota at all! Wow!

Here is a FACT for you:

Toyota is selectively documenting just what it wants to! Do you suppose for a minute that Toyota has PROPERLY DOCUMENTED the occurrence of Toyota engine oil sludge in the wake of proper maintenance? No! It has gone to great lengths to avoid doing so.

You and Toyota know full well what kind of "selective documentation" is going on there! Toyota wants to have it down on paper that this condition is just caused by improper maintenance. This is simply NOT the case. You now it; Toyota knows it. Remember, I've spoken to Toyota owners over the course of seven years now. That's right...I stumbled on Toyota engine oil sludge back in late 2000 when researching information about BRAKE PROBLEMS (and susequently brake failure) in the Toyota Sienna minivan.

If you want to PROPERLY DEBATE this matter, please come out of the shadows to OPENLY discuss this matter. I'm happy to participate when you do. I do not resort to your kind of attack-posting, though. Be prepared to be civil in your dialogue; leave your emotion out of it.

Have you noted the new entries in my petition? The 2003 models and beyond are showing up there now. Other models (not included in the CSP) are showing up, too. Toyota has some explaining to do. Oh...let me guess...it is *only owners of CERTAIN MODELS* that do not properly maintain their vehicles????

Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution: Engine Oil Sludge
http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html
RESPONSE TO CHARLENE BLAKE'S LIES, LIES, AND MORE LIES!!

This is in response to Ms. Blake's totally corrupt previous entry:
Ms. Blake, you must have a serious hate against Toyota for you to tell outragious untruths like you did in this forum!!
Otherwise how on earth can anyone rationalize going so far out on a shaky limb like that??
I note in your last response that you avoided any discussion of your first malicious accusations--your first (of many) bald faced lies---you know the one you conveniently avoided---about those "millions of sludged Toyotas". Time to fess up now!!
No, you don't even blink after being caught in that one, then you immediately go on the offensive and DEMAND proof that those "Low mileage Toyotas" got sludged because of NEGLECT!!
Well, you made the claim in the first place, therefore the burden of any proof is yours, no one elses!!
You have no rights to DEMAND anything, because you're already way behind in honesty points !!
Oh yeah, we know that you'll probably "say" you've received complaints, and we're pretty sure you'll even trot out some cutpasted "complaints" for "effect".
But all the usual hype and bluster you always dispense aside, all you've got is just hype and bluster!!
Sorry, but ZERO PLUS ZERO EQUALS ZERO!!
You lied--not once, but many times in your rush to judgement here--and it has cast huge doubts on any integrity whatsoever in your case.
Lies won't cut it lady. You made a huge mistake!
Cut pasted (or fabricated perhaps??)horror stories aren't proof either, so don't put your foot any further into your mouth!!
The sad part is that you don't have the guts to at least apologize for your dishonesty!!
Your entire case is shot full of holes with lies and distortions, and there's no one to blame but you!!
Shame on you!!



quote:
Originally posted by silverfox:
quote:
Originally posted by silverfox:
I believe the issue of falsely labelling certain oils with "synthetic" may very well be one of many causal factors in sludge reports.
The real causes of the Toyota specific issue are still unknown, and there has been a tremendous amount of speculation about it over the years.
I disagree with Charlene Blake's narrow focussed assessment of the sludge problem.
She blames Toyota exclusively, where in fact the issue is a complex one with any number of possibilities.
Her frequent appearances on the net are characterized by generalities and politicized rhetoric which appear to be thinly veiled attempts to raise alarm by innuendo and inference.
When pressed for facts and verification, she craftily avoids these challenges, and when she does respond, it's always with more alarmist rhetoric.
The absence of factual and verifiable evidence in any of her remarks is conspicuous; it certainly doesn't point to credibility.
While I hesitate to use the term 'lies' in describing much of the rhetoric she liberally dispenses, I must say it seems she does take some pretty wild liberties with the truth!!


Having read her long winded responses (how many does she need to make a point???)there is absolutely no doubt she is LYING through her teeth! (
I originally hesitated to use that word, but what she has written cannot be considered anything but LIES!!
"Millions of sludge affected Toyotas??"
Yikes!!
There's an exaggeration which goes far beyond imagination--it falls into a wildly delusional category for sure.
It's just not true--so far from the truth as to be unbelievable.
Why anyone would go so far beyond reality raises serious questions as to someone's sanity!!

Next, she infers there are "Many low mileage Toyotas that were sludged"!!
Another outragious embellishment--not quite a lie but surely an irresponsible distortion of fact. (A lie, but by another definition perhaps??)
The only low mileage sludged engines came about as a result of neglected oil changes--and that's a documented fact!!
I'll wager this contention is based solely on a few posts or emails she may have received--but no real documented and verified proff from anyone!
One can easily show how distorted and embellished the rest of her laims are, but why bother?
When someone predicates a response with outright
lies, the rest of what is said becomes tainted.
Charlene Blake has proven every one of my earlier contentions with such blatent and illogical LIES!!
Silverfox,
I suggest that you speak with Bruce C. Ertmann at Toyota. He is the one that promised to send out the 3.3 million Toyota/Lexus owner letters to those affected in the engine oil sludge case.

Sure, we know that on the first round of letters he stopped them from being sent out. The first letter was a very customer-demeaning letter that shamed the owners of these iron-clad vehicles. Then, when the second round of letters began, I learned that many Toyota owners still never got their letter! Imagine that...evidence of a problem...and no notification from Toyota! I guess now you understand why these owners all signed on to a class action lawsuit.

There are 3.3 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles included in the sludge campaign initiated by Toyota.

Unfortunately, that is NOT the true number because other models and model years are affected. Toyota has yet to acknowledge this fact.

Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution: Engine Oil Sludge
http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html
RESPONSE TO MORE LIES--(AND SOME HASTY BACKPEDALLING??)--BY CHARLENE BLAKE.......


Charlene said:--"Millions of Toyota and Lexus owners are affected by the premature demise of their engines due to engine sludge!!"

Where are the "affected millions" Charlene??

You know, the millions of owners you "implied" whose engines "demised?"

Or are you now changing the story to try and deflect your lie by suggesting these "millions" of owners got a letter from Toyota and that somehow "affected" them and caused their engine to "demise?"

Truth be told, the only one I know of now who is "affected" is yourself--although I'm not sure with what---(perhaps a genetic predisposition)---and I know for sure there's no cure.
Sadly, when your lies become that compulsive, I don't think there's much hope for any change in the condition. Bruce Ertmann would probably agree!!

Your feeble backpedal is a day late and a dollar short!!

You just plain lied--and got caught!



Silverfox,
I suggest that you speak with Bruce C. Ertmann at Toyota. He is the one that promised to send out the 3.3 million Toyota/Lexus owner letters to those affected in the engine oil sludge case.

Sure, we know that on the first round of letters he stopped them from being sent out. The first letter was a very customer-demeaning letter that shamed the owners of these iron-clad vehicles. Then, when the second round of letters began, I learned that many Toyota owners still never got their letter! Imagine that...evidence of a problem...and no notification from Toyota! I guess now you understand why these owners all signed on to a class action lawsuit.

There are 3.3 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles included in the sludge campaign initiated by Toyota.

Unfortunately, that is NOT the true number because other models and model years are affected. Toyota has yet to acknowledge this fact.

Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution: Engine Oil Sludge
http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by silverfox:
RESPONSE TO MORE LIES--(AND SOME HASTY BACKPEDALLING??)--BY CHARLENE BLAKE.......


Charlene said:--"Millions of Toyota and Lexus owners are affected by the premature demise of their engines due to engine sludge!!"

Where are the "affected millions" Charlene??

You know, the millions of owners you "implied" whose engines "demised?"

Or are you now changing the story to try and deflect your lie by suggesting these "millions" of owners got a letter from Toyota and that somehow "affected" them and caused their engine to "demise?"

Truth be told, the only one I know of now who is "affected" is yourself--although I'm not sure with what---(perhaps a genetic predisposition)---and I know for sure there's no cure.
Sadly, when your lies become that compulsive, I don't think there's much hope for any change in the condition. Bruce Ertmann would probably agree!!

Your feeble backpedal is a day late and a dollar short!!

You just plain lied--and got caught!



PS.

Next lie;....Charlene then adds this..." I
guess now you understand why these owners all signed on to a class action lawsuit."



So Charlene... are you now saying those "millions" of owners ALL signed on to a class action law suit???"

Sheesh---It gets better by the hour here!!
So THAT's where the "millions" of owners went.
I viewed that "petition" and naturally Charlene's name is the first one on it.

In the narraratives of each post many people said nothing of sludge! They complain of "check engine lights" and rough idle, etc.

And, many of these people bought the car used but claim proper maintenence.

AND, the best part is, NOT ONE specified the use of 100% premium synthetic oil since day one!

The point Charlene STILL cannot comprehend, is that is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to get sludge when using 100% premium synthetic oil. Charlene, do you know what IMPOSSIBLE means?

Many of those people on that petition who have had engine failure were those who bought the cheap oil at the cheap oil change place. And, many knew of a problem and drove the car anyway.

I stand firm that sludge is an OIL problem, and NOT an engine problem. Sludge comes primarily from cheap PETROLEUM oil, and lack of proper maintenence.

I have an extensive mechanical background. I have built and raced performance cars as well. I have seen, first hand, the difference between using petroleum oils and synthetics. No comparison.

Cheap customers have sludge because cheap customers buy cheap oil. This is reality.
RESPONSE TO STEVE L.

Thanks for your common sense info.
Your advice for synthetic oil is a big part of a myriad of issues re sludge development.
I found this site out of curiosity because I have a Toyota product (which, like most owners,I'm quite happy with) and was just surfing.
When "paparazzi wannabe" Charlene Blake jumped in with that boatload of hype--mostly smoke and mirrors BTW--I decided to expose what was essentially a pile of lies and misleading inference.
I also did a google search on this person and found thousands of hits on literally every auto related site on the net!
It seems we're dealing with a person who, for Lord knows what reasons, has made a career out of bashing Toyota!
All of her efforts have a common denominator---mostly alarmist hype with little substance and absolutely no authenticity.
I also looked at her much touted "petition". What a joke that is--it's been active (if you consider active as barely alive!)for over 5 years and has accumulated an underwhelming number of around 2000 signatures!
I also noted a great many blank spaces throughout the thing--no signature at all yet counted as one!
That petition is mostly futility however, because it appears there's no way to verify any signatures as legitimate, and because there are no checks and balances to determine legitimacy--apparently a single person can sign as many times as desired!
If Blake has a legitimate beef with Toyota, I would respect that if she was the least bit honest in her condemnations, but she chooses to use cheap rhetoric and shoddy political hype in her obssession over that beef.
But she isn't being honest, and I'll challenge her every time she opens up with another one of her ill gotten manifestos---on principle!!
quote:
MILLIONS of Toyota and Lexus vehicle owners are affected by the premature demise of their engines due to ENGINE OIL SLUDGE.

Very dramatic overstatement.
quote:
that is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to get sludge when using 100% premium synthetic oil.

Not true. PAO and esters will degrade, just at a much slower rate. The AO and dispersant additives in the oil are another important factor. Expensive oils (syn) will tend to have better/more AO/ dispersant than cheap dino oil.
The degredation can be easily seen on the oxidation and nitration values in a UOA.
Tempest,

That was the uneducated response I was waiting for. You must be Charlene Blake's husband, or mechanic.

You obviously DID NOT read EXACTLY what I wrote. I will spell it out for you one more time.

First, sludge is a PETROLEUM by-product. Therfore, if you use a TRUE synthetic, you absolutely CANNOT get sludge.

Notice all of my posts clearly specified "100% Premium synthetic oil". This would be a GROUP 4 oil which uses a CHEMICALLY ENGINEERED synthetic base stock for its base oil. This oil does NOT contain ANYTHING petroleum. NOTHING.

Unlike the GROUP 3 [wannabe] synthetic oils that use mineral oil for a base stock. This is your low end "synthetic" and "synthetic blend" oil like the stuff you buy with the Wal-mart brand or other store brand, etc. This is NOT a TRUE synthetic. This is the oil you are speaking about and is NOT the oil I was speaking about. This is NOT a "100% Premium synthetic oil".

I hope this clears up your confusion.

Steve


>>

-----Original Message-----
From: "forums.noria.com"
Sent: Dec 3, 2007 2:32 PM
To: Steve L
Subject: New Reply by Tempest - Re: "Toyota Engine Oil Sludge/Failure"


quote:
MILLIONS of Toyota and Lexus vehicle owners are affected by the premature demise of their engines due to ENGINE OIL SLUDGE.


Very dramatic overstatement.

quote:
that is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to get sludge when using 100% premium synthetic oil.

Not true. PAO and esters will degrade, just at a much slower rate. The AO and dispersant additives in the oil are another important factor. Expensive oils (syn) will tend to have better/more AO/ dispersant than cheap dino oil.
The degredation can be easily seen on the oxidation and nitration values in a UOA. You can view the message here https://forums.noria.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&m=305601547&f=616604995--> A new post from forums.noria.com > Message Boards > Car and Truck Lubrication!

Author Topic: Toyota Engine Oil Sludge/Failure
Tempest
Posted Mon December 03 2007 01:27 PM
quote:
MILLIONS of Toyota and Lexus vehicle owners are affected by the premature demise of their engines due to ENGINE OIL SLUDGE.


Very dramatic overstatement.

quote:
that is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to get sludge when using 100% premium synthetic oil.

Not true. PAO and esters will degrade, just at a much slower rate. The AO and dispersant additives in the oil are another important factor. Expensive oils (syn) will tend to have better/more AO/ dispersant than cheap dino oil.
The degredation can be easily seen on the oxidation and nitration values in a UOA.
Steve L,

Would you like to explain the oxidation and nitration of PAO/ester oils like Amsoil and Redline if sludge is impossible? How about oxidative thickening?

quote:
You must be Charlene Blake's husband, or mechanic.

You're funny.
quote:
Unlike older generation Group III stocks, which can have more than five percent aromatics, modern Group III stocks also undergo subsequent severe hydrofinishing after hydrocracking and hydroisomerization. Consequently, they have exceptional purity with aromatics levels of much less than one percent, resulting in high thermal and oxidative stability. On the other hand, PAO stability depends largely on residual olefin content, which can be present at significant levels - up to five percent. Even though PAOs have generally excellent oxidation stability, in many applications such as engine oils or high-temperature compressor oils, their performance is matched by modern, severely processed Group III base oils.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=533
quote:
Oxidative, thermal and hydrolytic degradation will change the base oil's chemical and physical properties, which then alters the lubricant's performance properties.
One of the most common forms of base oil degradation is oxidation. It occurs when oxygen reacts with the lubricant's base oil, which is typically a hydrocarbon. When the oil becomes oxidized, some hydrocarbon molecules are transformed into acid and sludge,

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_printer_fri...y.asp?articleid=1010
Does PAO not contain Hydrocarbons?
Last edited by tempest
Hey guys---As much as your input as to some of the many possible sludge causes is greatly appreciated, an important issue here IMO is a challenge to Charlene Blake for the "dramatic overstatements" (as one of you put it so succinctly!)she makes here in her long standing campaign of misinformation re Toyota.

Her as yet unrepentent "lie" re "millions of 'demised' sludged engines" is so off the wall that it goes far beyond ludicrous.
It's agreed she was caught in another (of many) overstated accusations, so that in and of itself speaks to her habitual untruthfulness.

She then attempts to deflect from her lie by offering a Class Action Law Suit as support--but lies again when she implies (note the second syllable!) the Suit was signed by those "millions" of owners.
More characteristic untruthfulness---BTW, in this case she conveniently omits several facts re that Law Suit: (1) It was in Louisiana, and involved only one hundred "class interests"--people who were represented in the action; (2) Judgement in the Suit was no different than the SPA Toyota offered owners years ago; (3) There was no mechanical or design flaw identified--in fact the suit placed no blame whatsoever on either party; and (4) Louisiana is by far the most prolific Tort Litigation site in the country--even the National Law Society has admitted the situation there is tantamount to legalized extortion!!

So I guess what I'm trying to say here is to ask not to add more controversy to the issue than it deserves--and if there's something to take issue over, focus first on people like Blake who take malicious potshots at others, and continually misuse these forums with their "dramatic overstatements" !!

Her credo seems to be "It's not whether you win or lose, it's who you can find to blame".

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