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I am a victim of 99 camry and the engine failed at 38,000 miles in september 2002 and Toyota didn't pay any penny to repair. It costed me 5,400 dollars to repair the same. I came to know about this just now and saw everybody bashing about Charles. I don't see any bad mouthing from him. As a victim of (once known for quality) toyota camry and paid over 5000 dollars. I am as mad as Charles and unfortunately I didn't get paid for my repairs by Toyota. Any suggestions on how I can fight over this as the 8 years is over and didn't see this petition or never received the glove copy for oil gel from toyota as I have changed my address few times in the last 5 years
Agreed. My credibility on the subject of Toyota engine oil sludge is well-established. My credibility to gather auto owner information is also well-established. My efforts have been noted in Automotive News, Business Week, as well as other online forums. I've been following this matter since late 2000; it is still a problem for vehicle owners.

Vehicle owners like Ram_Camry_Victim have asked for information; they deserve a legitimate response. It is inappropriate for someone who disagrees with the facts to lambast the messengers.

Charlene Blake
http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html
quote:
Originally posted by Ram_Camry_Victim:
I am a victim of 99 camry and the engine failed at 38,000 miles in september 2002 and Toyota didn't pay any penny to repair. It costed me 5,400 dollars to repair the same. I came to know about this just now and saw everybody bashing about Charles. I don't see any bad mouthing from him. As a victim of (once known for quality) toyota camry and paid over 5000 dollars. I am as mad as Charles and unfortunately I didn't get paid for my repairs by Toyota. Any suggestions on how I can fight over this as the 8 years is over and didn't see this petition or never received the glove copy for oil gel from toyota as I have changed my address few times in the last 5 years


Ram_Camry_Victim, you are far from alone. Many of the Toyota sludged engines occurred well inside the new vehicle warranty period. I know of some owners with only 12,000-15,000 miles when they first experienced sludge. One owner of a Rav4 had fuel in the oil and metal shavings at under 1,000 miles on the odometer (why aren't the Rav4 vehicles included in the Toyota CSP, many want to know?).

First, you must send Toyota a certified letter to formally notify it. The 3,200 sludge victims that Toyota acknowledges publicly don't count those who traded-in or never took the time to notify it. Do you suppose this estimate is a gross underestimate? Of course it is! Why, there are thousands who have signed the petition alone and most of these signatures have occurred beginning *one year after the CSP was implemented*. There are plenty of owners with vehicles not within the group Toyota acknowledges are sludge-prone.

File online reports, Ram_Camry_Victim, with the NHTSA and CAS (Center for Auto Safety). Call the hotline for Toyota sludge and ask it what Toyota is going to do for you as you were completely in the dark about the matter. It didn't help you when all the thousands of postings about this matter were stripped from internet searches. There were over 10,000 postings on this subject on "The Complaint Station for Toyota" but the site was maliciously hacked until it went down permanently back in 2004. Someone wanted this site down and down fast! Guess which company was number one in the number of complaints recorded there? Yes, Toyota was #1 on this complaint site at the time it went down. All this was due to engine oil sludge...

Ram_Camry_Victim, I am not surprised that you did not receive the infamous engine oil gelation letter. Many Toyota owners didn't---even those who have *not* changed addresses as you have. Mr. Bruce C. Ertmann, a Toyota executive I met with in May of 2002, said that the mailings were halted after lots of owners complained about the harsh, finger-pointing tone in the first letter. Then, Toyota issued a second, "softer" letter which still admonished Toyota owners for NEGLECT of their own engines. Not all the Toyota owners got this letter either, however. (It is interesting to note that Mr. Ertmann is now executive of "Consumer-Generated Media." Does that mean he has a hand in manipulating what is said about Toyota by Toyota owners???)

You could find the CSP information on Toyota's website intially, but it didn't take long for this information to be put in a location not easily found by Toyota owners. Many Toyota owners began to write to me saying that Toyota wasn't honoring the CSP at all behind the scenes. Engine flushes were being done, not engine replacements as promised by Toyota publicly. One Toyota spokesperson said that owners had to show at least one oil change receipt in a year's time, but dealerships made owners produce *every single receipt* before they would consider resolving the matter! Toyota owners have had to jump through hoops to get justice in this matter---and much of the time, they report that Toyota has loopholes to allow lack of follow through. No, Ram_Camry_Victim, you are not the only angry Toyota owner out there, rest assured.

If I were you, I would expect Toyota to resolve your matter. If it doesn't, I would enlist the help of any consumer reporter in your area that will listen to you. Imagine how many Toyota owners are slipping through the same cracks that you have slipped through! For Toyota, better you take the financial hit than it---it isn't willing to give up those record profits no matter what your pain isFrown

The facts speak for themselves as back yard mechanic has highlighted. This issue isn't about me; I am simply a messenger (well researched one). Can you imagine that I was accused of spreading this HOAX that is Toyota engine oil sludge and was attacked viciously on Edmund's Town Hall back in January of 2001? Do you suppose Toyota enlisted help in bashing the truth-seekers? Can you imagine the uproar when I stumbled on the "Engine Oil Sludge Policy" link on the Toyota Financial Services web page---in plain view for all to see???? Well, that link was stripped off the web page within 48 hours of my exposure of it! Yes, TFS had a SLUDGE POLICY long before Toyota initiated the "Customer Support Program for Engine Oil Gelation" in February 2002 (and again in April of 2002)! FACT. Period.

Ram_Camry_Victim, please keep us posted of the status of your case.

Charlene Blake
Last edited by charleneblake
Considering the number of old Toyota engines including 4 banger Camrys on road, the sludge issue here is being blown out of proportion. Actually VW have had more catastrophic sludge related failures and their solution is to use only a particular synthetic oil so it goes to show as others here have been indicating that apart from engine design and poor maintenance and driving habits, its also the oil being used has bearing on this issue.
Ms. Blake, there are number of very serious inconsistencies in your post.

I hesitate to call them outright lies, but they come awfully close!!!

First of all, you consistently respond to vague and anonymous complaints on the web without asking for any verification, and on the basis of very little history or fact---why not??
Do you accept everything you see on the web without any questions, and arbitrarily assume everything is above board?
How do you know any of what you see is true and accurate?
To make the accusations you make with no real proof is wrong, and it's probably correct that you're fully aware of that.
Yet you always choose use any and all anonymous stories as propaganda for your ongoing campaign of misinformation and manipulation.

You say in your post that you know of "some" owners whose cars sludged within 10 to 15,000 miles.
Pretty vague statement---and have you actually verified that any of these "some" owners you "know of" are being truthful?
I think not, and I think you have kept that claim deliberately vague to hide the real truth!!

Then you go on to speak of "thousands" who have signed a petition--we assume you are referring to your petition, right?
That being the case, there aren't "thousands" of signatures in it---in fact there are less than 2000 signatures, because over 600 "signatures" are merely blank spaces being counted as "signatures".
You also fail to mention that your petition has been running for over 6 years---therefor it is averaging fewer than 375 signatures per year.
Is that something anyone can really brag about?

Next you talk about a site which existed for a short time during 03 and 04.
It was called "Complaint Station", and you claim there are "over 10,000 postings" in it, and suggest that it was "mysteriously hacked until it went down permanently".
Again, a gross misstatement of fact and deliberately vague misdirection.
That site was posted in 10,000 times all right, but truth be told it was dominated by less than 30 or 40 different individuals going back and forth about the sludge issue.
Mostly, the site deteriorated into a few individuals attempting to out insult one another--it was a totally gross experience and you know it!!
In fact, you were among the most prolific of those individuals posting there--you appeared there over 2000 times yourself!!
PLUS---the site was closed because the owners were unable to attract sufficient paid sponsors to keep it going.
The owners shut it down because of lack of funding, not because of any "hacking"!!
This was clearly stated in their parent website at the time.

You went on to rant about how "badly you were treated" by a site called Edmunds Town Hall.
Now now Ms. Blake, you know full well that's not the least bit true.
You broke the clearly stated rules at that site, and were banned for that reason and that reason alone.
You were posting under different usernames, and you got caught at it and paid the price, no more, no less.
And those who were there supposedly supporting your cause were a few very foul mouthed individuals who got kicked off with you because they were rude and insulting others who questioned your comments at the time

Ms. Blake, throughout your post, comments you made have a common denominator---they are all unsupported and vague inferences.
This is, and has been your trade mark style as long as you have talked about the sludge issue--no truths, just distortions and inferences.
There is no credibility in the piece.
As said earlier, I hesitate to call them lies, but they come awfully close!!
By definition, nothing of what you say can (nor should it be) believed!!!
Last edited by silverfox
quote:
Originally posted by Gurkha:
Considering the number of old Toyota engines including 4 banger Camrys on road, the sludge issue here is being blown out of proportion. Actually VW have had more catastrophic sludge related failures and their solution is to use only a particular synthetic oil so it goes to show as others here have been indicating that apart from engine design and poor maintenance and driving habits, its also the oil being used has bearing on this issue.


You are absolutely correct in what you stated!!

Yet Ms. Blake NEVER mentions about other automakers, nor does she EVER say anything about the many other possibilities relating to sludge causes.

More reasons to question what she has posted here (and several hundred other sites with the same vague and misleading propaganda!!)
Rodney, what is your advice to Ram_Camry_Victim? Should his significant issue be ignored because SilverFox is attempting character assassination?

In fact, Toyota itself has admitted to the engine oil sludge tendency in millions of its own vehicles. There have been numerous articles about it and even more consumer letters written to various agencies and consumer reporters.

This discussion is about Toyota engine oil sludge. Period. The matter has yet to be satisfactorily resolved according to thousands of Toyota owners.

There is no personal vendetta in wanting consumer-oriented justice for that. Companies that bully their own customers eventually hear about it, don't they. In this case, Toyota has heard from thousands and thousands of its customers, and they happen to be quite upset about it.

Toyota owner experiences with engine oil sludge are welcome in this discussion, and they should not feel intimidated by someone who is bent on defamation rather than sticking to the topic. Nor should they feel compelled to stifle their thoughts just because someone wants to throw the baby out with the bath waterWink
Right!! I agree.

This forum is supposed to be about sludge.

Whenever anything is said on that topic, it is hoped it would be the truth; it shouldn't be used dishonestly, nor should it be used as propaganda by anyone.

Strictly speaking, contributors shouldn't tell lies.

Ms. Blake is not telling the truth by any means.

That has been shown time and time again.

She has lied repeatedly in her many appearances on the web.

It's very clear that Ms. Blake is using the forum as a propaganda tool to promote her crusade against an automaker.

If, as Ms. Blake claims, she wishes to be seen as a consumer activist, then she should start by being truthful and forthright in doing so.

Sincere activists with a genuine causes don't act that way, and don't need to.

Instead, her efforts are characterized by lies, misrepresentations of fact, distortions, and inflammatory comments with no substance.

That is why I choose to challenge Ms. Blake, and I will continue to do so until she becomes honest and forthright in her crusades.



Here are two more graphic examples of her dishonesty; these appear in her latest post(s).

First, she posts under a different username in the Rodney Fitzpatrick piece, above.
That post and her follow on post originate from the same location, and within minutes of each other!
This is no coincidence; it happens repeatedly in her activity on the net. (This is one reason why she was banned from Edmunds!!)

Secondly, she references "Toyota admits Millions of their cars are succeptible to sludge".
Nothing of the sort has ever been said by Toyota.
Yet another bald faced lie!!!!

These are two more very clear examples of the dishonest tactics she uses to publicize her crusades.
Last edited by silverfox
Well, I certainly agree it's a garbage discussion, and probably should be discontinued.

That said, as long as Ms. Blake (if that's her real name) continues to spew forth with lies, inferences, baseless accuations, or continues to use this site as a propaganda tool for her trumped up crusades, I will continue to agressively challenge her.
Re: Engine Sludging with Premium Synthetic Engine motor oil.
I had a 4 cyl 16 valve. 5 speed Camry Wagon 23,000 miles diagnosed with a engine knock. On its third oil change.
Toyota Service stated the reason for the problem was the oil being used. A 100% Premium Synthetic.
I had complete oil service records, and with the Synthetic Oil Companies support, after months of written and verbal discussions.
Toyota agreed to do the repair with their top mechanic on the repair.
With a signed inclusion that I may have to foot the bill if it was a oil related problem.
The mechanics repair found faulty valve train components,the parts were replaced at Toyota's cost. The Dealers Top Mechanics repair sub notes were "this was the cleanest block he had worked on", "no oil related concerns"
The mechanic pulled me on the side at the time of vehicle pick up asking me what was the brand of oil I used, the service writer / service management had not informed him.

To all concerned, which ever side of the fence your on, be a consumer with armed facts, and service documentation. Very few consumers with out of warranty engines receive due compensation and too many consumers within warranty fall into the voided category.
quote:
Originally posted by AutoMarine:
Re: Engine Sludging with Premium Synthetic Engine motor oil.
I had a 4 cyl 16 valve. 5 speed Camry Wagon 23,000 miles diagnosed with a engine knock. On its third oil change.
Toyota Service stated the reason for the problem was the oil being used. A 100% Premium Synthetic.
I had complete oil service records, and with the Synthetic Oil Companies support, after months of written and verbal discussions.
Toyota agreed to do the repair with their top mechanic on the repair.
With a signed inclusion that I may have to foot the bill if it was a oil related problem.
The mechanics repair found faulty valve train components,the parts were replaced at Toyota's cost. The Dealers Top Mechanics repair sub notes were "this was the cleanest block he had worked on", "no oil related concerns"
The mechanic pulled me on the side at the time of vehicle pick up asking me what was the brand of oil I used, the service writer / service management had not informed him.

To all concerned, which ever side of the fence your on, be a consumer with armed facts, and service documentation. Very few consumers with out of warranty engines receive due compensation and too many consumers within warranty fall into the voided category.



GOOD ADVICE!!!
We see too many so-called "Complaint Stories" where there is only vague reference to proper maintenance.
Most of the time there's no reference to any maintenance at all.
IMO, if people have solid documentation to show they did everything according to the book, there shouldn't be any problem, and there usually isn't.
Those who expect the most who provide the least, and then complain when they don't get it, are the ones we hear from most often in these forums.
See http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html for almost 3,000 Toyota owner signatories. Most owners voice anger at Toyota for denying their claims under the "Customer Support Program for Engine Oil Gelation."

See http://www.toyotaoilgel.com for important information on the CSP and the class action lawsuit.

Read http://www.uc2.blogspot.com to see what Toyota does for customers with major problems.

Go to YouTube.com and search for "Toyota Sludge." See how the problem started and link to the sites under "more info."

Follow "toyotasludge" at Twitter.com for updates on the Toyota engine oil sludge matter.

Watch for the check engine light, blue smoke, and increased oil consumption as all are signs of impending engine oil sludge.

Many emissions control components are replaced before or after Toyota engine oil sludge.

Contact the NHTSA and the Center for Auto Safety to file vehicle owner reports. Tell your experience at ConsumerAffairs.com and RipOffReport.com.

Charlene Blake
charleneblake2011@gmail.com
Last edited by charleneblake
jonny-b, if you read the websites I cited above, you would know why the engine oil sludge matter is current at Toyota.

You forget...I have no malice intent toward Toyota. I am Toyota owner benevolent.

Does there need to be a motive if consumer justice is desired?

Why are you, silverfox, and others determined to defame in an effort to distract from the real issue?

What you have posted is libelous. You might want to consider taking that statement down.

I stand by my postings. They are accurate. This matter is unresolved to date.

Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
charleneblake@cox.net
I have been in the automobile business for almost 40 years and have found that pcv system has lots to do with sludge..if the crankcase is not ventilated properly, then moisture can build in the engine helping to create sludge. And as another post said, the extended oil changes don't help especially when most drivers just run a few blocks around town at a time never allowing the oil to properly heat and evaporate the moisture
quote:
Originally posted by wylchyl:
I have been in the automobile business for almost 40 years and have found that pcv system has lots to do with sludge..if the crankcase is not ventilated properly, then moisture can build in the engine helping to create sludge. And as another post said, the extended oil changes don't help especially when most drivers just run a few blocks around town at a time never allowing the oil to properly heat and evaporate the moisture


_____________________________________________


This is probably the most sensible thing I have heard in a while,and very,very true.

This is exactly the reason why I use Synthetic oil that has the lowest possible NOACK volatility numbers.

Many of today's cars don't even have a PCV-valve that can be replaced because the system is now sort of integrated. Imagine clogging that type of system up!

I have found that highly volatile lubes(quickie lube),are used with poor quality gasoline, has become a recipe for disaster in many cases,if not all.

If motorists would only run synthetic Motor oil with a volatility(NOACK) of 4-7%, run top tier gas,and do a few freeway runs on occasion,there would be a lot less sludge out there,if any.

This not only will keep the engine clean,but keep it "like new" for as long as possible,which in turn......keeps it clean for as long as possible. It's a very healthy pattern.

Once the bad pattern(varnish/sludge-wear-varnish/sludge-wear/occurs).......it's rebuild time. So it's best to avoid bad patterns in the first place.

Even when True synthetic does evaporate in very hot weather/climates and sees long hard engine runs over the longer haul,and many,many thousands of miles, it seems to only lay down a very thin non-varnish type of "pure" oil film that is harmless and doesn't clog or coat/layer up.
Last edited by captainkirk

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