Turbine Oil Validity

In your regular testing do you include foam test D892? To validate the anti oxidant additives you plan to run the Ruler. Did you run the Ruler prior to the varnish service? If not, maybe you have a retain sample to use as a baseline that can be used to compare the current level of AO in your 724/832 oil.

Thanks for your valuable input , our routine analysis for turbine oil includes the followings:

ASTM D6595l ASTM D5185:
1) Wear Metals
2) Additive / Contaminants

RFS COARSE Spectrometric Results:
1)Wear Metals
2)Contaminants

ASTM D445/D2270: Viscosity Results (cSt)

ASTM E2412: FT-IR Results (Abs/.1mm or Percent)

TAN ASTM D664/D974: TAN (mgKOH/g)

TBN ASTM D2896/D4739: (mgKOH/g)

KFW ASTM D6304 (ppm)

ISO 4406 (μm(c)): Particle Count Results (μm(c))

Thanks again dear Eric for the valuable, I will include it in the recommended test section.

Q-Love..

Guys..

I would like to share this peice of info with you, today one of the colleagues guided me ASTM_D4378, That is really great, but RULER is missing and not there

anyways, I would like to thank everybody who helped or ried to help..

I got lots of my basic knowledge in Oil Analysis through this valuable forums..

Regards..

q-love, RULER is mentioned everywhere in ASTM_D4378. I believe the misunderstanding is that the technical name for RULER is called Voltammetry. Here is an example from D4378-08 it is also in the older version D4378-03.

Voltammetry is an electrochemical test technique, which can be used for measuring many antioxidant additives. The technique applies a voltage ramp through aelectrode sensing system and measures the current flow that occurs when the applied voltage equals the oxidation potential of the antioxidant. The potential of the produced voltammetric peak aids in the identification of the antioxidant and the height of the produced peak is proportional to the concentration of the

Hope this helps.

JP Chapin
Fluitec International
j.chapin@fluitec.com
315-447-3780

Fear Jeff..

Thanks for the add, I hope everybody gets the usefulness of such topics, the version available is D4378-99, and it is not there..

I think we are on the way to get one, I heard that it is so cost effective technique, but I have no idea about its consumables' cost and the consumption frequency. Given that the total turbines (all GTs) are about ~30, and to be checked every month. Is it possible for technicians to conduct such a test properly or it requires special skills? The initial cost, and the warranty issues. I will collect all these data after the completion of the fore mentioned report.

Thanks again for the input..

q-love, please send me an email with your contact information and I would be happy to provide you with data, case studies and an ROI for the use of a RULER "in house"

JP Chapin
j.chapin@fluitec.com
1-315-447-3780

You mentioned that you are mixing DTE 832 & 724. There is an ASTM standard called ASTM D7155 Evaluating Compatibility of Mixtures of Turbine Lubricating oils. This test method will give you alot guidance in terms of what ASTM tests need to be performed and how to evaluate the test results when mixing mixtures of turbine oils. Your oil supplier may be able to assist with this. As mentioned above, ASTM D4378 will provide guidance on in service monitoring of the turbine oils - inclusion of varnishing index potential is recommended. I am guessing that you are probably in a power plant situation, ASTM D6224 In service monitoring of lubricating oil for auxiliary power plant equipment" may be of use as well.

And by the way, there are also ladies in this forum with valuable knowledge to share.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Chapin:
q-love, please send me an email with your contact information and I would be happy to provide you with data, case studies and an ROI for the use of a RULER "in house"

JP Chapin
j.chapin@fluitec.com
1-315-447-3780

Chapin, I will send it to you now, hope we get use of it..

thanks

quote:

Originally posted by ReneWA:
You mentioned that you are mixing DTE 832 & 724. There is an ASTM standard called ASTM D7155 Evaluating Compatibility of Mixtures of Turbine Lubricating oils. This test method will give you alot guidance in terms of what ASTM tests need to be performed and how to evaluate the test results when mixing mixtures of turbine oils. Your oil supplier may be able to assist with this. As mentioned above, ASTM D4378 will provide guidance on in service monitoring of the turbine oils - inclusion of varnishing index potential is recommended. I am guessing that you are probably in a power plant situation, ASTM D6224 In service monitoring of lubricating oil for auxiliary power plant equipment" may be of use as well.

And by the way, there are also ladies in this forum with valuable knowledge to share.

Rene..

Thanks for the valuable add,

Regarding the industry, I am in an LNG manufacturing industry, and we have lots of turbines that need some sort of special lubricant services rather than the routine analysis..

Thanks for the D7155 and the one for auxiliary equipment. In fact we involved our oil supplier and they did the analysis them self, and concluded that they are compatible..

Regarding the 'Gents', I would like to apologize to all ladies and even the gentlemen who felt bad about it. Sorry Ladies and Gentlemen

Regards..

If you are using Mobil lubes, the first place to go with a question is your sales or technical rep. They have a large technical service organization that includes advanced investigative laboratory capabilities intended to help answer this sort of question.

Yes, there are many people here who are just as smart and experienced as many of the folks at ExxonMobil. But, the people here don't have access to intricate details of the formulations and specifications. Your supplier already has an advanced tech service function; take advantage of it. Further, you are already paying for it, since this function is part of the reason Mobil lubes command a premium price.

As for the QSA and RULER - they are both part a good monitoring program, but I try to avoid jumping out of the window with my hair on fire on the basis of a single bench test.

The RULER measures the quantity of specific antioxidant additives. That is good as far as it goes, but antioxidant additives are not the entire source of oxidation resistance. If you dissolve the same amount of a given antioxidant in Group I, III, III & IV base stocks, it will give you similar results in the RULER. This is because you are measuring the amount of antioxidant and you put the same amount in each blend. But you would get very different results in the D 2272 RoBOT. This is because these base stocks have varying levels of inherent antioxidant capability.

Lamont B Dumont,

The last paragraph about differences between RULER and RBOT was a real new piece of information to my very humble background in this field.

Thanks for your add..

q-love - I'm always glad when I can help someone with what I've learned along the way. It's a way of paying back the people who helped me. I have the advantage of having been both the 'lowly' technician actually running a bunch of these tests as well as the 'lowly' technologist trying to make sense of the results. The technologist understands the supposed meaning of the data, while the technician understands the nuts-and-bolts of a test and where things can go wrong. That background makes me ask two questions about every result:
1 - What does it mean?
2 - What does it NOT mean?

Sometimes the answer to the second question is more important.