Vegetable Based Motor Oil

On their site I only saw racing oil?

Yes, their site lists the racing end of the oil product, but if you give them a call and discuss your wants and needs of a lubricant with them (hence vehicle or other item requiring oil to run) they can let you know everything about it.

I just acquired a 15w-40 diesel formulated oil from them and installed it in my 2001 Dodge Ram Diesel and it actually quieted the engine a little bit (If that's possible with a Cummins Diesel of this year). I plan to keep close watch on the relevent stuff, so I guess I'll keep everybody updated as to my progress.

I was kind of hoping that some of the very experienced lube guys on this site could put in their two cents to this subject though...

Castor Oil
Cast r o l

As long as it meets specs then should make an oil on par with RL, which would be an interesting comparison rather than with mineral. Did not see HTHS qouted but should be high. What about zinc moly additives?

If you really wish to be Green then you can also try this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/1750734.stm

I'm not sure about their additive package. I assumed that it was more than adequate since it was designed for protection of race engines. My main concern was the right balance of detergent properties since in a normal automobile engine we certainly don't want to be changing the oil on a weekly basis due to lack of cleaning properties. I was mostly impressed with the figures of viscocity, VI, and the normal specs that can be found for the 5w-30 oil by clicking on the specs in Adobe format once you hit the high performance oil page on their site.

So far, I've had no hiccups in either vehicle, but it's still too early to tell. The Honda seems to be running quite smoothly while the diesel is quieting up just a little bit. Oil pressure on both is just as if I were running a full synthetic, not too high, but doesn't bottom out like a conventional petroleum oil would do during the hot summer days we've been getting (90 degrees with 70-80% humidity levels). I haven't checked mileage levels, but I never really was up on getting that last tenth of a mile, it just seems to be too nit picky trying to find an oil, synthetic, vegetable, or petroleum based, just to increase mileage by one or two tenths in normal city driving.

If someone could enlighten me on what to look for in an ideal additive package so that I can further my own research (I ALWAYS am looking for better and newer things in the lubrication department, less the additives of course. I've read entirely too many negatives on this forum and others to put any faith in those things at all!!) I would greatly appreciate the feedback.

I'm familar with RL. They're nice guys, heavy on R&D, a little short on sales and service. My concern regarding their engine oil is that it does not meet industry requirements.

In North America, the American Petroleum Institute (API) licenses the Service Symbol or "doughnut" on oil bottles, telling purchasers the oil's viscosity grade, its service classification and whether or not it is energy conserving.

API also licenses the ILSAC Certification Mark or "starburst symbol" to be placed on the front of oil bottles, certifying that those oils are the appropriate oil for gasoline-powered passenger cars, light trucks, minivans and SUVs.

The Germans in WWII found that the oil of castorbeans made a synthetic lubricant, until it oxidized and then turned into crud. What they later discovered was that the castorbean contained a natural ester and glycerine; it was the glycerine that accelerated oxidation. When they separated the castor acid from the glycerine, and then reacted an alcohol with the acid, they came up with one of the first ester lubricants known to man. What they didn't know was that secretly, Standard Oil and Union Carbide were doing the same thing for the Allies

RL and Motul both make high quality of the shelf ester based race oils and have no need to jump through industry hoops with this type of oil.

I understand where you are coming from MGBV8, but I was just trying to get away from the whole big oil picture in general. That is why I am using their product. They are a smaller company, continuing research and development of a unique type of lubricant oil for engines, without interference or prodding of the oil conglomerates in the US pushing the buttons on the products that they can and cannot sell to the people.

I guess I've just got a very bad taste of corporate America in my mouth, particularly when I read that we're being forced into 3000 mile oil changes with the advertising push, both on radio and TV. Then I read about Europe's oils and formulations, lasting sometimes 10,000 miles or more. Now I not saying that given the majority of US drivers probably should follow a severe service duty schedule in their auto's manual, that pushing some oils to that limit is good for the engine, but it does get one thinking of trying to find alternative forms of lubrication to use or try.

So that's what I'm doing. Please keep the opinions and information coming. I am enjoying the experience!!!


P.S. Has anyone else by chance given them a call?

Castor oils can be too gummy. Silkolene still markets their Castorene castor motor oil.

From what I remember, the vegetable oil additive package is different then typical motor oils. But, it would be interesting to see what their AW/EP additives are and in what ratios. Will you UOA that vegetable oil?

Also, I understand that vegetable based motor oils aren't fully approved for long oil change intervals, yet. Something about the oil turning into something like shortening when exposed to air at temperature. This is supposedly not an issue with short ~<4k oil changes.

Vegetable motor oils:
http://www.sterlinggrade.com/
http://www.agromgt.com/prod01.htm
http://renewablelube.com/

Well, I probably wasn't going to do UOA, because I planned to change it in 5000 mile intervals, so I should be OK in that department. As far as the shortening bit, they never mentioned any problems, in fact, they said that just like the synthetics of today, I wouldn't even have to flush the engine because their product was compatable with synthetics.

Given my driving style, I just wanted a natural based lubricant that could handle everything that I dish out for a standard interval of time. Now I know that most if not all oils of today do not need changed at 3000 miles, and most could go 10,000 if pushed, so I just split the difference somewhat and do 5000 to 7500 based on the driving style I am doing at the time (summer vs. winter vs. highway vs. city and such).

Maybe I should do an UOA so that I could see some numbers, any thoughts on a reputable, quality yet reasonable lab to send the sample to?!?

http://www.fuchs-oil.com/index.php?id=742&type=1

No Zinc

Well, MGBV8, I just read about that oil in the link you provided. Sounds great. Any thoughts on how to aquire it here in the States, or online willing to ship here, or is it strictly a European market product only?

I know that the big sticky point for Renewable Lubricants is the fact that they are NOT API certified due to the tremendous cost that the small company would incurr in the testing process itself. That also, however, doesn't mean that their products do not meet or exceed the requirements by a wide margin. They seemed very straight forward, were very pleasant to converse with, and seem to know their products abilities and limitations quite thoroughly.

I am still learning the various aspects of motor oils and their makeup, so I didn't know all of the questions to ask, but if you would like to ask them, I'm sure that they would be able to answer them better than I could at this point.

Thanks for the link. It sounds like a winner as well.

Does anyone remember "Castrol R" from the late-50s or 60s? It was billed as a vegetable oil and typically used in dragsters of the day. What was it made from?

Paul.

I wouldn't use a "new technology" for 5k miles without a UOA. I wouldn't even use most mineral oils for 5k miles and they've been around for decades.

3k/3mo seems to be a more safe OCI until the technology is accepted, tested, and in more use.

Test it yourself with a used oil analysis before pushing it.

And, I've heard that these veg oils are really veg/synth/dino blends. What percentage of the oil in the bottle is actually vegetable oil? I've read somewhere that the veggie oils use a reasonable percentage of PAOs or POEs.

quote:

Originally posted by inHaliburton:
Does anyone remember "Castrol R" from the late-50s or 60s? It was billed as a vegetable oil and typically used in dragsters of the day. What was it made from?

Paul.

Its a castor oil base, used in racing bikes since before WW2 IIRC. Still available, and used as an evocative engibe-scent by vintage enthusiasts.

Yes, we were always aware when someone was running Castrol R. Interesting that it is still being used. Thank you!

Paul.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad2leia:
Well, MGBV8, I just read about that oil in the link you provided. Sounds great. Any thoughts on how to aquire it here in the States, or online willing to ship here, or is it strictly a European market product only?

I did not look at the link but if your asking about the 20wt they make , it's here in the States and available online right now .

If I remember correctly , the Silkoleneshop.com

Thanks for the link Motorbike, but it wasn't the Silkolene version of the 0w20, but the Fuchs TITAN GT1 0w20 biodegradeable version that I was looking for.

I've done some searching and so far the only place I can find it to purchase online is valuhub.com, which given that the default currency to pop up in Singapore dollars, I would assume that is where the company and or warehouse is based. I was hoping to find one here in the US so that shipping wouldn't take a month or so to get here.

After reading the specs on this oil, this might actually put to shame the Renewable Lube product that I'm using in my CR-V. I still would like to further research it and or find out some first hand experience with it before switching again, because so far I am very happy with my veggie oil now. Besides $15/liter is almost as hard to swallow as $32/liter Synlube, but that's another topic discussion!!!

Did you try

http://www.fuchs.com.sg/faq.asp

Yep I did look at that link, MGBV8. It is still from Singapore. I want to buy it from the U.S.A. if possible. I gave there headquarters in Chicago, IL a call and so far no one has gotten back to me if it can in fact be purchased on this side of the water. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Well, to purchase it here requires a pallet of 30 cases of 20 liters per case purchase. So I guess to try it out I'll just have to try that website www.valuhub.com, and hope for the best.

I also have been reading other lubricant forums posts and am suprised by the negative response to the vegetable based lubricants (non castor oil based). Technology and the sheer fact that we will run out of petroleum eventually should push forward the further development of these lubricants to come full circle.

I may not have the tribology degree, but give them a chance. They seem to be working just fine for me.