Please beware of the difference in recommendations in the US and EU for VAG! Don't assume directly that a recommendation in the US (or a product) can be used the same in Europe. If you want to be sure 100% on VAG for EU, send me a message!
Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity
Gentlemen: What's with all this obsessing about the oil . . .there's nothing exotic about these engines. It's a load of silliness chosen to create the aura of a "really special" ride. Do you really think that VW would be so inept that they would design a motor that required something rare and unique? The failure issues would be enormous. Use a proper weight synthetic and change it a little more frequently---- Wal Mart has a bunch that will fill the bill for a lot less money. This is getting embarrassing.
Obsession? I only see a normal discussion, questioned by someone who clearly does not have the complete knowledge. Talk about embarrasing...
In the USA it is and was far less complex than in other continents. Especially since in the US, only 40% of all VAG models are sold. This is understandable since diesel fuel is not commonly used in the US and/or saving environment by driving diesel is not encouraged in the US government. (But that is another discussion).
Could you explain to us : Which components are you referring to or which oil characteristics are the most important for these engines? Can you also please post your testresults which back up your story?
In the USA it is and was far less complex than in other continents. Especially since in the US, only 40% of all VAG models are sold. This is understandable since diesel fuel is not commonly used in the US and/or saving environment by driving diesel is not encouraged in the US government. (But that is another discussion).
Could you explain to us : Which components are you referring to or which oil characteristics are the most important for these engines? Can you also please post your testresults which back up your story?
Well . . . I suppose if I intend to participate in this engineering frenzy I better acquire "THE COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE". Engine failures caused by oil failures are extremely rare, unless there ain't none or it was never changed or it was cracked when the Corvair was in vogue. Any widely used synthetic of the correct weight that is changed at 3000 mi. (-0 +2000) will not fail to protect the engine . . . at $25 to $35 (with filter).
I started out by saying that all this elegant display of engineering prowess was irrelevant and I don't intend to back away from the point by engaging in more of the same. Let me address it this way: This mysterious new specification for oil did not originate in the design engineering lab, it traces its roots to the marketing department. If you believe that an engine with a specific power output of less than 100 HP/liter (turbo) or less than 80 HP/liter (naturally aspirated), with typical metallurgy, bearing surface pressures, and piston speed is going to require more exotic oil than a Japanese motorcycle engine with specific power outputs approaching 200 HP/liter and nearly double the rpm capability, you are suspected of being an authority looking for an audience.
The extended drain intervals were dreamed up to project a product image of less inconvenience and expense all brought to you by the genius of German design. The remaining fly in the ointment was the byproducts of combustion that stick to the cylinder wall since coking (viscosity increase) has been reduced to about the same level as polio by the high flash points of synthetics. Since these byproducts need to be stored somewhere (yes, in the oil), a designer molecule needed to be synthesized that would hold more of it during the long interval without losing lubricity and other nice properties. This assignment was easily handed to some polymer chemists who probably didn't work for VW, but more likely an oil company.
To cut to the chase, if you want to buy into dirty oil being just fine in your engine, then go ahead and drive yourself crazy with finding the "magic fluid" and getting it installed. I won't be doing that, thank you, and you can bet plenty that VW does not want to stick it to any owners who are using high quality synthetics and shorter drain intervals. The reason? If any engines fail under those circumstances they are very likely to have a crippling field action on their hands that would rival the Vega silicon impregnated aluminum block fiasco. The law of torts in the U.S. sits on a foundation called the doctrine of reasonableness, which tends to be hard on corporate shell games.
The extended drain intervals were dreamed up to project a product image of less inconvenience and expense all brought to you by the genius of German design. The remaining fly in the ointment was the byproducts of combustion that stick to the cylinder wall since coking (viscosity increase) has been reduced to about the same level as polio by the high flash points of synthetics. Since these byproducts need to be stored somewhere (yes, in the oil), a designer molecule needed to be synthesized that would hold more of it during the long interval without losing lubricity and other nice properties. This assignment was easily handed to some polymer chemists who probably didn't work for VW, but more likely an oil company.
To cut to the chase, if you want to buy into dirty oil being just fine in your engine, then go ahead and drive yourself crazy with finding the "magic fluid" and getting it installed. I won't be doing that, thank you, and you can bet plenty that VW does not want to stick it to any owners who are using high quality synthetics and shorter drain intervals. The reason? If any engines fail under those circumstances they are very likely to have a crippling field action on their hands that would rival the Vega silicon impregnated aluminum block fiasco. The law of torts in the U.S. sits on a foundation called the doctrine of reasonableness, which tends to be hard on corporate shell games.
Still... the above only can be said for US market where the prescribed specifications of VAG are far less complex than the rest of the world.
I'm pretty sure that marketing has had only a small influence on the new VAG specs. It has much more to do with used diesel injectors, ash residu, meeting emission and shearing at high temperatures...
If it was just marketing, it would mean that this happens also at GM or Ford or Mercedes, or any big OEM.
But still funny how you believe that all these things are just 'imagined' to generate more profit. I guess in the US the Diesel Particle Filter is also still seen as fiction?
Read my lips: The US will also have to cope with more and more differentiations in oil specifications when the Diesel fuel is getting more accepted.
I'm pretty sure that marketing has had only a small influence on the new VAG specs. It has much more to do with used diesel injectors, ash residu, meeting emission and shearing at high temperatures...
If it was just marketing, it would mean that this happens also at GM or Ford or Mercedes, or any big OEM.
But still funny how you believe that all these things are just 'imagined' to generate more profit. I guess in the US the Diesel Particle Filter is also still seen as fiction?
Read my lips: The US will also have to cope with more and more differentiations in oil specifications when the Diesel fuel is getting more accepted.
Oh . . . I see . . . the engines sold in the U.S. do not have the demanding requirements for lubrication that those in Europe have.
Ash residue . . . surely taking out the trash more frequently would be preferable to leaving it in the soup. The temperatures are comparable.
In fact, long drain intervals are the rage right now. Denying that it's a marketing ploy is akin to commanding the surf to recede.
Tell me . . . what does an exhaust filter have to do with anything?
These "magic lubricants" would be required only for diesels if that were the issue. The bottom line is that VW (or any other mfgr.) can't tell you to go with long drain intervals without insisting on an oil that will protect them from significant warranty expense. That's why the stickers exist . . . to cover their gluteals.
Ash residue . . . surely taking out the trash more frequently would be preferable to leaving it in the soup. The temperatures are comparable.
In fact, long drain intervals are the rage right now. Denying that it's a marketing ploy is akin to commanding the surf to recede.
Tell me . . . what does an exhaust filter have to do with anything?
These "magic lubricants" would be required only for diesels if that were the issue. The bottom line is that VW (or any other mfgr.) can't tell you to go with long drain intervals without insisting on an oil that will protect them from significant warranty expense. That's why the stickers exist . . . to cover their gluteals.
Hahahaha....you should go in politics
No...the US is about 5-10 years behind in implementing Diesel fuel techniques in the vehicle park, that's probably why you still don't have any clue...
There are only a small selection of engines of VAG sold in the US, 99% petrol.
DPF or Diesel Particle Filters are fitted to meet new emission standards for Passenger Cars but also for new Euro 4/5 Trucks (or SGR). These filters only work properly and live long enough with the proper low SAPS or mid SAPS qualities. At VAG you could say that the VW 507.00 is a the mid SAPS oil. Other well known qualities are MB 229.51 or 229.31 or the ACEA C grades.
This will be my last reply on this subject because it's leading us away from a proper discussion.
...and NO: I don't work for an oilcompany.
No...the US is about 5-10 years behind in implementing Diesel fuel techniques in the vehicle park, that's probably why you still don't have any clue...
There are only a small selection of engines of VAG sold in the US, 99% petrol.
DPF or Diesel Particle Filters are fitted to meet new emission standards for Passenger Cars but also for new Euro 4/5 Trucks (or SGR). These filters only work properly and live long enough with the proper low SAPS or mid SAPS qualities. At VAG you could say that the VW 507.00 is a the mid SAPS oil. Other well known qualities are MB 229.51 or 229.31 or the ACEA C grades.
This will be my last reply on this subject because it's leading us away from a proper discussion.
...and NO: I don't work for an oilcompany.
A Few Points: (1. The need for the "Marvelous Mystery Oil" is unfounded in VW's gasoline engines (as you suggest) (2. Extended drain intervals require additives that function for much longer and those additives increase SAPS. Therefore, shortening the intervals lessens the need for the additives. (3. Lengthening the drain interval increases the SAPS rate of formation in a near linear fashion. (4. About a fourth of filter ash is not from crankcase oil. (5. Long drain intervals make sense for long haul truckers but are penny wise and pound foolish for autos ---- especially those owned by folks who are adept at doing their own maintenance.
Hahaha I guess you are living in a Marvelous Mysterious World.
I can easily destroy your socalled points again, but without an equal base of knowledge it's like trying to drain the sea with a bucket.
It's clear to everybody now what your opinion on this subject is, so please give it a rest now!!!
I can easily destroy your socalled points again, but without an equal base of knowledge it's like trying to drain the sea with a bucket.
It's clear to everybody now what your opinion on this subject is, so please give it a rest now!!!
Well there you have it . . . I'm simply outgunned by superior intelligence . . . I'll just slink off to banished oblivion.
[em], us inferior peons "without an equal base of knowledge" all bow down to you.
Where I am, Castrol makes the SLX Porfessional VW 505.01 to meet the VW 505.01 spec. SLX Professional BMW LL04 Powerflow to meet BMW LL04 spec and MB 229.51 for Low SAPS oils used in diesel dpf application. Also, SLX Professionl LLIII Powerflow to meet MB 229.51
