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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Besides in your perfect world you don't need a warranty, not even on an appliance. Just buy it plug it in and if it doesn't work fresh out of the box you'll just buy another one! Good on you sir!


Several years ago in my "not so perfect world" I purchased a Maytag washing machine for 350...discounted from 500 with free delivery..

The extended warranty through HD was only 45 buck for a total of 4 years. Guess what?.......the machine broke down in just under 5 years, and yes...........I had to buy a new washer--AGAIN(not maytag) due to being out of warranty. That was one of the few times I got bit by something like that being just out of warranty.

At present, I have a lifetime warranty on my Jeep bumper-to-bumper,and I am not worried about warranty issues... as long as the maintenance section in my owners manual is 'filled out' warranty is good as per Jeep. Usually when something breaks it's typically electronic(very expensive),and/or the transmission needs a rebuild. I have never needed engine work outside of a stretched timing chain many years ago on a used car. Only rebuilt one transmission...on a used car. Transmission flushes almost assures 175-200k. I am thinking about flushing the mopar stuff at 25k and installing..........well,take a guess.

In the past,and present,warranties are sometimes denied coverage due to sludge.... with receipts. I have zero that can't ever be an issue.

I will admit that an antifreeze leak into the engine oil will lead to sludge that has led to warranties being denied even though it was an obvious mfg defect. This was discussed on on BITOG when someone was denied using the stuff Tim sells........even though the coolant leak was the culprit....but the 'sludge' clause in the warranty allowed the dealer/mfg to weasel out of any claim.

I would have flushed the engine--TWICE,installed clean oil,and then gone in for service. Also, that person never checked under the hood much......well duh...he never noticed the leak until way too late! I pop the hood at least once weakly and pull the dip stick, I am aware of what's going on,if anything,and therefore, totally....CONFIDENT!

I guess you might be needing some bumper guides if ever you have a problem with regards to your warranty issues and stuff. But if not, try to settle for what you can have. Hope all will be well though.
Last edited by armandjones
I got test data from zMax.

Compared the results to the ASTM specs.

My notes were cleaned into oblivion, they'll turn up one day. Meanwhile a synopsis and some questions.

In all but one test, the results achieved were within the error band of the method. The published zMax value was always higher, but in the error band.

conclusion: Not valid data

I asked specifically why no tests were done on parts from engines.

Answer, they didn't fit in the SEM.

My response. Got a saw?

I also noted that they did 2 sets of tests.

1- straight oil
2- oil w zmax in it.

Note: The ZMax is a modified thin oil, as best as I remember. some proprietary process is used to turn some sort of base stock onto ZMax.

I wonder why they did not also test a 3rd combo? Oil with the unmodified base stock added.

They put a lot of stock in the penetration of ZMax. Might that penetration advantage be better quantified by comparing it to oil with the base sock added vice just to oil?

Then we would know the true"r" advantage of the ZMax process.

In short, I see nothing convincing in the data.
Thanks Robert, was waiting for your reply.

I really don't have much in the way of comment regarding Zmax in particular, but in general I don't see an actual need for the product, or similar products, in the first place.

I guess the short answer is I don't understand what problem these products are trying to address. I don't have any issues with engine reliability or longevity with regular oil and filter changes. a little attention to cooling, not being afraid to pop the hood every once in a while and having a poke around, and a habit of always starting the engine with everything (A/C, heater, radio, etc) "off" and listening to the motor for the first few minutes before adding the noisemakers.

I see guys seemingly worried about relatively new engines; I don't have much to say there since aside from my motorcycle I've never owned one in that condition.

But I will say that I always buy used vehicles, and I've never lost an engine (total price paid for 5 used trucks + 1 car: $6350; HD about $8500 invested; Miata $2000 and PT Cruiser $3200). I use 0W-xx semi-synthetic or synthetic **, change oil and filter once a year, and leave it at that as far as worrying about the oil goes. I put about 6~10,000 miles annually on my daily driver; the lower figure is due to my work which results in my vehicles sitting for 3 months unused at least once a year. That is not necessarily good for an engine, so I wouldn't call it light duty.

I use the 0W-multigrade because my vehicles experience cold starts at air temps up to and below -40 every year. (Note: Wind Chill has nothing to do with engine starts; air temperature only figures cited). The coldest start was @ -46C (-51F) with the GMC from a storage lot in the Arctic, no block heater help available. That is severe service in anyone's book.

I normally don't have access to electricity where I park, so block heaters are rarely used. I expect the vehicle to start every time, regardless of the weather. I don't use dual batteries or any special starting aids, but trust me your vehicle needs to be in good working condition or you're not going to be able to start it.

Summer temps range up to +40 air (105F). I run the same oil year-round.

I actually own three licensed vehicles right now, normally I previously just ran a truck (1/2 or 3/4 ton). I've switched to running a car and truck as a daily driver for fuel consumption reasons two years ago.

My current truck was bought with 230,000 km (143,000 miles) just recently. It replaced a 77 GMC 350/T400 that I bought with 186,000 miles and ran for 8 years. It has transmission issues but the engine will fire right up this second, currently with 265,000 miles on the clock. It uses no oil to speak of, perhaps l quart per year. I've had slightly better gas mileage from similar 70's GMCs but this one was adequate at 20 hwy and 12 city (per US gallon), and was consistent over the time I owned the truck.

I have a PT Cruiser I bought with 175,000 km (109,000 mi) and a 20 year old Miata that has 275,000 km currently (171,000 mi). The Miata regularly sees shifts at 72~7500 RPM and occasional sustained high RPM operation (up to 3 hours).

I expect all these vehicles to last many more years; I've always bought used, and always wore out the vehicle itself rather than the engine. I have never lost an engine in a vehicle in my life, and I get good life from them: six used vehicles over a 27 year span (one was burnt by a pyro who was torching cars and trucks around town so only ran it for 2 years). I've never failed to pass a vehicle inspection save for minor issues (broken parking brake line; licence plate lamp out, that kind of thing; you get a pass if you show the necessary repair was done within 30 days).

The motor is in my opinion the most reliable part of a car or truck.

So, I don't see exactly what people are trying to achieve with these additives. It seems like a solution in search of a problem to me.

The local Dodge Store just ran an ad with a guy who's on his third RAM Diesel 1-ton. Just traded his old one ... something like a 2005 model ... with over 1 million km on the clock, for a showroom-stock '12 model. His previous truck had 900,000 on it; he sold it to a buddy rather than trade it in. Regular factory fill oil and filter at the suggested intervals.

Naturally this is all anecdotal evidence, so grab your box of salt, but I do have to say that anecdotal evidence is a primary marketing tool of the additive companies, so I say "apples vs apples".

** Esso ArticLube 0W-30 Semi-Synthetic 1985~1991
PetroCanada 0W-30 Semi-Synthetic 1991~1996
Mobil 1 0W-40 Synthetic 1996-present
If I didn't need the 0W oil for winter starts, I'd probably use different oil.

The Miata gets 10W-30 because it doesn't see winter use.

The bike started off with straight 50-weight (factory recommended viscosity) AeroShell W100 (AD) because I got a 20-litre pail for free, now it uses 20W-50 motorcycle conventional/synthetic depending on what is on the shelf at the time for a reasonable price.

After a rebuild, intervals were 50 miles, 500 miles, then 2000 miles (AeroShell; aviation AD oil is non-detergent) now 3000 miles (actual motorcycle oil) with a change in the spring or fall depending on mileage since last change.
Last edited by gn

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