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Oil Change Intervals

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T therionMember
quote:
Originally posted by TallPaul:
I have averaged 3000 or less most of my life on dino oil. Occasionally I get out to 3500 or so. I am interested in extending my oil changes if I can find an easy way to evaluate the oil (am thinking of blotter tests). Not interested in synthetics for extended changes though.


You can go by how "gritty" the oil feels.

But i advise you to goto synthetic, it really does help! i was skeptical too

2003 Audi A4 1.8TQ
Amsoil 0W-30 Synthetic
Amsoil Full Flow synthetic/cellulose filter.
T tallpaulMember
Two things that intrigue me about synthetic oils are the superior cold flow and that you can get an oil that meets a multigrade spec without any added viscosity index improvers. Still I am reluctant to go that route. Can't say if it is fears of increasing leakage (from the slipperier oil) or the cost. I have been thinking of "juicing up" my oil (use 10w40 for better oil pressure) for cold startability by adding a quart of synthetic. Not sure it matters though, since I am in Detroit where it normally doesn't go below zero and for overnight I plug in a 250 watt oil pan heater, which works very nicely. Just those after work starts where at 10F it took three seconds for the oil pressure gauge (mechanical) to leave zero. No mechanical noise though. Suppose I could try it sometime just to see, but also the oil will still get dirty, whether synthetic or not, right? And that could limit the OCI. Does synthetic affect oil pressure differently than dino? I suspect not.
K kevinMember
Adding a quart of Synthetic to petroleum is not going to give you noticeable results. Further, since petroleum oil degrades much faster than does Synthetic, you synthetic will begin to degrade much faster too; by having 80%, based on 4:1 ratio, petro to synthetic, your normal operating temps will be much higher b/c of the petro, drain intervals will be much sooner (even Petro Canada with their Hy-dro Cracked Petroleum Oils, they may get really good results over the short term but I don't think they have developed an oil that will get the extended drains yet ). If you use a synthetic, whatever name-brand you choose, use an Amsoil Full-flow filter, they filter at 4-6 microns and will keep you oil much cleaner. P.S. If you are waiting until your oil feels "gritty" to change it, IMHO, you are waiting way too long ! I change oil every 35K miles and it never feels gritty. I do change the filter every 12K miles also.

Email: lubes4u@myexcel.com

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FM Former Member
Daniel 411-- Caterpiller tractor co. does oil samples on any kind of oil. I used them for years before I retired & found they were the best & were only $8 a sample.We brought several million $ worth of machines from them & maybe that was why it was $8. Might want to check into that.
FM Former Member
Why ask for TBN with a gasoline engine analysis ?
Thats primarily for diesel engines .

Use insoluables and oxidation - nitration to gauge your engine condition and how far you might go on the next interval .That is why most labs offer kits without TBN . Just call one and ask them about this if in doubt .
K kevinMember
It seems somewhat apparent that many folks are feeling a little more comfortable with up to 5,000 mile drains and that 3,000 mile drains is no longer a tremendous burden. Personally, I believe this to be to the overall quality of oils on the market today, higher standards overall, possibly the quality of newer engines built today and improved filtration. Oh, let me not forget more informed end-users like most on this board.

Kevin Alexander, Claremore, OK

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C colinMember
On this side of the water (England) it is recommended that oil is changed at up to 10,000 mile intervals. I keep hearing that in the States you are still changing your oils at between 3-5,000 miles. I own 2 Jeeps - a Cherokee and a Grand Cherokee both on the 4ltr engines. the recommended change interval is 7,500 miles. I wonder what the American recommendation is???
Are our oils better than yours? - I doubt it so why the differences? Confused
I also hear a lot of critism aimed at the after market additives (snake oils) and yet Jeep recommend and sell a friction modifier additive for the axles if towing. Anybody out there know what this additive is?? Confused
K kevinMember
Most of the cars in the states are now recommending 7,500 mile intervals and some are at 10,000; the indoctrination of Quick-lubes has gotten many folks to thinking that if they don't change at 3,000 mile intervals, somehow their vehicle is going to croak. I think it's great that folks are becoming more and more knowledgeable about extended drains and I believe they will continue to extend even further out as time goes on and it becomes more of the norm. As for Friction Mods in Gear Oils - that should be fine unlike many engines mfr.'s do not recommend any aftermarket additives; there's a series of articles in "Lubes-n-Greases" now talking about the aftermarket additives and extended oil drains being an "Ethical Burden"; the writer is pretty harsh on the Car Mfr.'s for not coming forward with more extended drains based on the quality of oils on the market today.

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T tallpaulMember
Right and that is why they don't do it. I just wonder if there is a cheaper test that could be used for moderate oil change interval extension. A lot of good oil likely is wasted. There is so much focus on reducing gasoline consumption while good oil is thrown out wholesale. I have heard of people who regularly change their oil at 2000 miles, others even less. I just ran a test on my oil at 3000 and it was in remarkably good condition. As a result I am following the lab's recommendation to go to 4500 miles. Now I feel confident to run 4000 mile OCIs and get a sample tested maybe once per year. What is $20? I know it is the cost of an oil change, but every time you take your car into the shop, you drop 5 to 50 times that much. There is more value to an analysis than just to see if you should change the oil.
M mspurlockMember
TallPaul brings up a very good point. So many people discount oil analysis in cars and trucks because is costs the same as an oil change. Having an oil sample pulled and analyzed on your vehicle can be looked at as a Preventive Maintenance tool. You do a tune up on your vehicle to keep it running smooth. Just doing this tune up and changing the oil does not ensure that everything internal is alright. Oil analysis can assist with this information.
One can look at it like this...Would you rather find out that you have a coolant leak before you go on a long trip, or would you rather completely blow the head gasket while driving on your trip? It would be much more convenient and most likely cost effective to know in advance of some type of impending failure.
Not saying that you should sample your oil at every change, that could indeed become quite costly...but periodic analysis would do you no harm and could warn of a major problem. In addition, when it comes time to sell your vehicle...Instead of just receipts of services, you would have actual information of the historical condition of your car. Not a bad resale tool I'd think.
T tallpaulMember
quote:
Originally posted by Winston:
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel411:
Does anyone know of a lab which will perform an analysis of oil samples? At an reasonable affordable rate for personal vehicles.


ANA Laboritories , NJ ----- 10 dollars . If you have a diesel engine another 2 dollars gets you tbn . That is who I use anyway .

http://www.analaboritories.com


Typo above, try: http://www.analaboratories.com/
T tallpaulMember
This is straight Maxlife 10w40 with NO additives:

F150 300 cid inline six with 108,528 miles at oil sample time. Oil has 3012 miles on it from December 21,03, to mid-March 04. Typical driving is 15 mile trips. Blackstone comments:

"PAUL: Your first-ever oil analysis looks great! The universal averages column shows typical wear from a Ford 4.9L I-6 engine after about 3200 miles on the oil. Your oil was in use 3012 miles, and your wear levels are reading well below those averages. You could run this oil longer, if you wanted to. We'd suggest trying 4500 miles for the next oil change. Your engine can take it! The oil can take it! Your oil & air filtration systems are working well too--note silicon and insolubles. All in all, things look great. Check back next oil change to establish solid wear trends."

Aluminum 3
Chromium 1
Iron 7
Copper 6
Lead 4
Tin 0
Moly 0
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 0
Boron 2
Silicon 12
Sodium 4
Calcium 2382
Magnesium 10
Phosphorus 732
Zinc 881
Barium 0

210F SUS Viscosity: 68.2
Flashpoint: 385
Fuel: <0.5
Antifreeze: 0.0
Water: 0.0
Insolubles: 0.4

Still running this oil. At 3850 miles now.
M morrisMember
TallPaul-
I want to offer to send you an metal conditioner to put in your car at your next oil change. I can link you up with an independent lab that will do the oil analysis for free for you, or if you choose you can find your own lab. After you let it run the 3000 miles do one analysis, then another at 6000 and again at 9000. There are just many snake oils on the market that boast all sorts of claims but none of them seem to actually please the experts. I just want show that our stuff really works and can hold up to its claims. Let me know if you're interestood.

tgooch@alaco.net
L luisvelascoMember
I think the diffrences in ODP between America and Europe is due to marketing strategies. For example in South America once you buy your car it never returns to the dealer, the reason: service rates too high. In the US is more cummon see car owners resturning to the dealers. Asking them to change oil every X ammount of miles they will have customer visiting them in a more frecuent bases.
By the way, there are some diferences between lubricants for the US and European markets (API and ACEA standards are not the same), some companies like Shell have products with american and eropean approved standards.
G gurkhaMember
quote:
Originally posted by Luis Velasco:
I think the diffrences in ODP between America and Europe is due to marketing strategies. For example in South America once you buy your car it never returns to the dealer, the reason: service rates too high. In the US is more cummon see car owners resturning to the dealers. Asking them to change oil every X ammount of miles they will have customer visiting them in a more frecuent bases.
By the way, there are some diferences between lubricants for the US and European markets (API and ACEA standards are not the same), some companies like Shell have products with american and eropean approved standards.


This is so true in India too, There are plenty of private as well as commercial diesel vehicles and most of the times, the oil as well as filters are stretched beyond limits, sadly there is total lack of awareness here and people would usually rush for the cheapest(usually older CC or CD rated oils) and really run them for miles.
M mikerMember
quote:
"The oil change, whether performed by a technician at a service facility or done by the consumer at home, triggers other maintenance tasks that increase retail and service sales," said Alfred L. Gaspar, AAIA president and CEO. "The extended drain interval issue is definitely about more than just motor oil. The oil change is a catalyst; it gets consumers into service centers and retail auto parts stores. The more often consumers change their oil, the more profitable our industry will be throughout the distribution channel."

Today the debate over extended drain intervals rages on with 60 percent of consumers who believe they should change their oil every 3,000 miles and 40 percent of consumers who don't see a reason to change their oil sooner than 5,000 miles or more.

According to a Pennzoil/Quaker-State study, 92 percent of DIYers who change their oil perform other tasks including:

74% wash their car
57% check their transmission and brake fluid
51% check antifreeze/coolant and washer fluid
31% check belts
30% add accessories
24% check tires
15% check the air filter
The purchase of motor oil and chemicals by DIYers alone accounts for four percent of the total $162 billion automotive aftermarket sales in 2000, according to the AAIA Factbook.

DIFMers who have their oil changed typically have other procedures performed by technicians, including replacing wipers and blades, adding engine/fuel additives, tune-up services, brake service, replacing shocks and struts, draining and refilling radiators, differential services and other services.

"Assuming that the current oil change interval for DIFMers is approximately 5,200 miles, every 100-mile reduction in fast lube customers' oil change intervals delivers $105 million in sales for the industry," said Marc Graham, president, Jiffy Lube International, and chairman of AAIA. "If consumers had their oil changed at 4,200 miles, the aftermarket would realize an additional $1.1 billion."


The rest of it.
F frankyzavierMember
I agree with Widman and many others that extending drain intervals should be done only with Oil analysis. Many consider Oil analysis costly and rather change oil at shorter intervals than recommended. Oil analysis also provides vital engine health condition data and one can anticipate some costly overhauls if neglected.

Some manufacturers formulate their oil for extra soot absorbency and in the process extend the life of filters and oil.

Oil change intervals will also depend on operating conditions like city -stop and start or terrains or highway driving .

To conclude use of high performance oils should take care of all the above variables and offer benefit in terms of extended drains.
G gurkhaMember
Dirt is the biggest factor in an extended oil change situation and also has detrimental effect on the life of the engine in general. For those using stock air filters, unless a strict vigil is kept on the frequency of cleaning the filter, dirt can play havoc with even a good synthetic oil if used in a long drain situation. Even on paved roads, you get to situation where lots of dirt is flying around, this is prevalent in summers so oil analysis as well as personal vigil is a must there.
A abusMember
I think a big part of the 3,000 mile OCI is the inevitable fact that some owners occasionally skip one. (That's why GM's oil life monitor gives a slick way around the problem)

In my oppinion, bulk Group I dino oil and Fram filters (like all the quicky lubes use) isn't really up to extended drains...maybe 5,000 miles. To go 10,000 you really need to have a better oil than just the cheapest SL dino avalible, espicially in the low TBN, sheer prone grades like 5W30/10W40's tend to be.


To answer the gear lube question, most of the Gear Lube additives that I'm familar with are either to provide more slippage for a Limited Slip Firction Clutched Differential, or to make up for a mediocre product. In general, very high quality gear lubes don't need anything additional.

Gear lube additives are a whole lot less likely to cause trouble that oil additves as the typically additive problems of foaming, combustion related corriosion, etc aren't found in a simple differential. However, there is still potential for additive clash in that the overall life of the combined anti-wear package may be less than the original oil alone. Moral of the story is to run a high quality lube and avoid the additives, but they're less likely to cause problems than motor oil additves.
E emMember
I'm usually check the level regulary and change the oil every 10.000 kilometers (6000 miles). Gearoils as neccessary. I usually don't keep a car longer as one oilchange Cool

A lot of local dealers here in Europe are starting to give up the extended intervals for the engine as some other components seem to suffer also from the extented interval between workshop visits. Furthermore, a lot of consumers can not drive properly enough to make the interval without serious engine wear/damage...
Last edited by em
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