Kirk fails to understand that the class action suits had nothing to do with oil, but the engines.
He still can't show what we want.
Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity
quote:Originally posted by Trojan:
where are the documents to the tests that synlube crows they passed?
You claim to pass them. Let's see them. No links to a suspect site.
Glad you're okay. Thanks for taking time out from your busy day and dropping by.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Kirk fails to understand that the class action suits had nothing to do with oil, but the engines.
He still can't show what we want.
Trajan, I am not taking sides, just looking for "truth", outside of suspect site. If I wanted to buy this junk, I would need to see documented proof. If it was so good, I would see references on Cummins, Cat, DDC, Volvo, etc.
but, nope. just suspect site (as you like to call it).
Dave
Understood Deltona. At $32 a bottle, no one should buy this based on info that's been presented so far.
"I use it and it works" just doesn't cut it.
"I use it and it works" just doesn't cut it.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Kirk fails to understand that the class action suits had nothing to do with oil, but the engines.
He still can't show what we want.
Trajen.....I want you to tell everyone on this forum that the world is now making defective engines,.....not DEFECTIVE oil.....go ahead and say that!!! YOU CAN'T YOU WON'T YOU KNOW IT!!
quote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I am not taking any sides here, but Capt. Kirk, you are so fond of "bulk oil sludge", why don't you ask the large OTR trucking fleets to use your "synlube". These trucks do 150K a year! If that truck is down for maintenance, the company/driver is losing money. If there was a product that could save them downtime, they would be jumping all over it. Truth is, Heavy Duty diesel engines are designed for abuse, long OCI's and minimum downtime. The mechanics are going to use the cheapest "bulk" oil and service them at the longest interval.
If this synlube was worth a hoot, there would be many links, besides the frontpage 98 with the "dashboard" theme, that looks amateurish.
Miro needs to take his meds, I don't think the Gov't would want oil in a gold plated can. They go for the low bid. I know, I work in government. Low bid wins.
I hear crickets....
Dave
So what "cheapest oil" as you say are the wrench turning mechanics installing in these $100,000 plus trucks now days???
The class action suits were aimed at the engine makers, not the oil.
Show otherwise.
Where are the documents to the tests that synlube crows they passed?
Show otherwise.
Where are the documents to the tests that synlube crows they passed?
quote:Truth is, Heavy Duty diesel engines are designed for abuse,
Deltona...............Define abuse. Instead....allow me first then you next!!
Small,lightweight,high revving and overworked ,emission clogged/choked, and built to last about 150k with a very high horsepower/torque to weight ration!!
Short trips and incomplete warmups!
Stop and go! Excessive Idling!!
Four hundred pound lightweight relatively cheap CONSUMER grade engine pushing/pulling 5000 pounds or more.
ONE Tiny oil filer that hold 15 oz. of oil.
The biggest ABUSE of them aaalll..................installing store bought low grade bulk oil in the above engine and it's abuses and then wondering why all the sludge and other issues arose long before the typical life expectancy of 150,000 miles was reached.
I also would like to know what your point was comparing low cost/light weight car engines to very,very expensive heavy duty commercial/industrial diesel engines designed to last 10 times longer and use typically 15W-40 diesel oil with sumps that measure gallons,not quarts,and several king size industrial oil filters!!!!
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
The class action suits were aimed at the engine makers, not the oil.
Show otherwise.
Where are the documents to the tests that synlube crows they passed?
I already explained why and how savvy lawyers aim their lawsuits. That is a mute point. If I were a lawyer I would go for the easy money and the easy win.
Big oil has too many lawyers and endless cash/power and you know that!!
Instead, explain why no sludge occurred when 100% PAO high tech oil was used. You keep avoiding that one!!!
That's the one that you keep avoiding...because it proves cheap oil causes sludge and you keep dancing around that question.
C Kirk- I think asking why diesel rigs don't use Synlube is a valid question. You mention how abusive small gas engines are on oil, good points. How about those $150,000 rigs that run sometimes 24/7, why aren't they buying Synlube and running it 150,000 miles?
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quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
The class action suits were aimed at the engine makers, not the oil.
Show otherwise.
Where are the documents to the tests that synlube crows they passed?
I already explained why and how savvy lawyers aim their lawsuits. That is a mute point. If I were a lawyer I would go for the easy money and the easy win.
Big oil has too many lawyers and endless cash/power and you know that!!
.
You have not explained anything but a perception.
A false one at that.
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I am not taking any sides here, but Capt. Kirk, you are so fond of "bulk oil sludge", why don't you ask the large OTR trucking fleets to use your "synlube". These trucks do 150K a year! If that truck is down for maintenance, the company/driver is losing money. If there was a product that could save them downtime, they would be jumping all over it. Truth is, Heavy Duty diesel engines are designed for abuse, long OCI's and minimum downtime. The mechanics are going to use the cheapest "bulk" oil and service them at the longest interval.
If this synlube was worth a hoot, there would be many links, besides the frontpage 98 with the "dashboard" theme, that looks amateurish.
Miro needs to take his meds, I don't think the Gov't would want oil in a gold plated can. They go for the low bid. I know, I work in government. Low bid wins.
I hear crickets....
Dave
So what "cheapest oil" as you say are the wrench turning mechanics installing in these $100,000 plus trucks now days???
Cheap oil they use is usually Rotella-T, Delvac, or Delo. Stuff runs them less than 5 dollars a gallon bulk.
Dave
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Understood Deltona. At $32 a bottle, no one should buy this based on info that's been presented so far.
"I use it and it works" just doesn't cut it.
Trojan, you should qualify your statement by saying words to the effect, "In my opinion...." It's obvious to me that you are no expert in this field because Miro shoots you and others down every time you make one of your silly statements.
Also, your second statement should say that it "doesn't cut it for me." That would be fair. To imply that it doesn't work for "anyone" is not fair because you don't represent "everyone," only yourself. Synlube clearly "works" for those who are actually using the product and have achieved results as advertised.
There is a clear distinction between "users" and you. Users purchased said product and do not seem interested in "tests." They are satisfied with its performance. You, on the other hand, clearly will never use the product with or without a plethora of test data, no matter the results.
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Truth is, Heavy Duty diesel engines are designed for abuse,
Deltona...............Define abuse. Instead....allow me first then you next!!
Small,lightweight,high revving and overworked ,emission clogged/choked, and built to last about 150k with a very high horsepower/torque to weight ration!!
Short trips and incomplete warmups!
Stop and go! Excessive Idling!!
Four hundred pound lightweight relatively cheap CONSUMER grade engine pushing/pulling 5000 pounds or more.
ONE Tiny oil filer that hold 15 oz. of oil.
The biggest ABUSE of them aaalll..................installing store bought low grade bulk oil in the above engine and it's abuses and then wondering why all the sludge and other issues arose long before the typical life expectancy of 150,000 miles was reached.
I also would like to know what your point was comparing low cost/light weight car engines to very,very expensive heavy duty commercial/industrial diesel engines designed to last 10 times longer and use typically 15W-40 diesel oil with sumps that measure gallons,not quarts,and several king size industrial oil filters!!!!
Hmm, abuse. Diesel engines run usually 24/7 on OTR, unless the driver decides to do his 10 hours downtime in a hotel, or has an apu. These trucks haul 40 tons in all types of weather, and normally do not get their oil changed when they should. This is due to the FACT that when the truck is down for maintenance, it is losing money, so the companies push them to the limit to make more money. It is called Capitalism.
Hmm, I also work with a fleet of over 250 CVPI sheriff's vehicles. They average over 100K before it is time to go to auction. Let's see, they get cheap dealer mystery bulk oil (presumed to be Motorcraft) and a filter every 5K which is 2K over Ford's recommendation for severe duty.
No sludge anywhere. Engine is the same as any other 4.6 modular. Only has a bigger alternator and an extra transmission and power steering cooler over the civilian model, unless you by the crown vic with the towing package, that is the CVPI.
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
C Kirk- I think asking why diesel rigs don't use Synlube is a valid question. You mention how abusive small gas engines are on oil, good points. How about those $150,000 rigs that run sometimes 24/7, why aren't they buying Synlube and running it 150,000 miles?
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That might be a question you could ask Miro.
I know they take 10-15 gallons of oil and sometimes use a gallon/every 8k-10k when the oil is soot loaded.
How much oil these trucks burn/leak would be a good question someone on this forum can address.
What oil do they typically use,who decides,and why?
Why don't they all at least use Mobil Delvac1,Amsoil,Shaeffer's etc....let alone Synlube.
Deltona Dave.....I fail to see what your point is with big rigs at this time nor how it addresses all the known sludge issues and lawsuits in the U.S. and Abroad.....police car engines have not been sludge prone and are typically very fully warmed up with plenty of oil changes..........then auctioned off at 100k for obvious reasons and replaced with our tax money over and over.
We are off topic with big rigs and cop cars.
We are off topic with big rigs and cop cars.
Miro says he has diesel "synlube", but at that price, most fleets can get 6 gallons of Rotella for the price of 1 quart synlube. And most HD engine manufacturers allow rigs to go 25K or more on conventional.
Caterpillar even states in their lubrication guide that oil that "generically states meets or exceeds Caterpillar standards ECF1", is not to be used in their engines. They want either Cat oil or a Major brand with CH/CF-4 or higher. They even send out test kits to have oil analyzed by Cat. every 500 hours to see how well it is holding up.
Caterpillar even states in their lubrication guide that oil that "generically states meets or exceeds Caterpillar standards ECF1", is not to be used in their engines. They want either Cat oil or a Major brand with CH/CF-4 or higher. They even send out test kits to have oil analyzed by Cat. every 500 hours to see how well it is holding up.
quote:
We are off topic with big rigs and cop cars.
Then let's get back.
Where are the documents to the tests that synlube crows they passed?
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Deltona Dave.....I fail to see what your point is with big rigs at this time nor how it addresses all the known sludge issues and lawsuits in the U.S. and Abroad.....police car engines have not been sludge prone and are typically very fully warmed up with plenty of oil changes..........then auctioned off at 100k for obvious reasons and replaced with our tax money over and over.
We are off topic with big rigs and cop cars.
Nah, we are not off topic. I am just stating that sludge has more to do with engine design and not so much oil. A properly designed engine like a cop car or heavy duty truck engine will not sludge, even if using cheapo oil. My Nissan Titan will go 7500 miles on Dino and I don't fear that it will sludge, as most Nissan engines are not known sludgers.
The best thing anyone should do before buying a car is to do a little research before hand, follow the OM and maintenance schedules, and use quality lubes and accessories. Remember, you get what you pay for.
With that, I am signing out for the night. Have to be at work at 0400 hours.
Good night folks.
Dave
quote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Miro says he has diesel "synlube", but at that price, most fleets can get 6 gallons of Rotella for the price of 1 quart synlube. And most HD engine manufacturers allow rigs to go 25K or more on conventional.
Caterpillar even states in their lubrication guide that oil that "generically states meets or exceeds Caterpillar standards ECF1", is not to be used in their engines. They want either Cat oil or a Major brand with CH/CF-4 or higher. They even send out test kits to have oil analyzed by Cat. every 500 hours to see how well it is holding up.
You just most likely answered your own question. The guys running the fleets only look at the initial price of the oil and don't care about anything else....happens all over America with doing things on the "cheap" because it looks good up front and impresses your manager and gives you that "attaboy" pat on the back for saving money. I call that "penny wise and dollar foolish".
How many recalls,accidents,tragedies,infrastructure issues,etc. have happened because someone was cheap and cut corners!!
