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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

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quote:
Originally posted by carolynw:
I am using 5w 20 in my new car. I want to switch to a fully synthetic oil but there no manufacturer has one available. What would be a good alternative in the synthetic realm?

In which area you are driving?
Normaly the syhthetic oils are not needed. They are only bringing a higher waste quantity.


Microfiltration and testings systems for lubricants, mainly motoroil but also hydraulics.[LIST]
Last edited {1}
TOP-OEI, I havn't heard this argument. Could you plz expound ? I've always thought petroleum oils contributed to the waste problem because they have to be changed much more often and thus the possibility of more oil getting back into the environment; if these oils could go longer drain intervals, would it not make sense that the waste issue could partially be resolved ? I'm looking forward to your reply. Thanks.

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quote:
Originally posted by Kevin:
I'm not sure about other companies, but I believe Amsoil has an XL7500 5W-20 Oil that might work for you. It's a Group III oil.

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Thanks Kevin - I was aware of this particular oil but it is not the same as the rest of the product line. This oil is to be changed at 7500 mile intervals. I would like to obtain longer drain intervals if I'm going to switch to synthetic.
I am using 5w 20 in my new car.

If you have a new car it would be better to adhere to the oil change interval in your owners manual. Ford can refuse to pay for warranty repairs on your engine for oil related failures for not changing the oil at recommended mileage/time. Why not use Motorcraft 5W20 blended, its one of the best rated 5W20 oils on the market.
Bob, I don't want to sound rude, but your statement about changing oil and warranties is incorrect. No Mfr. can void a warranty simply on the maintenance practices of the customer - they have to prove, should there be a problem, that the problem is a direct result of the lubricant; if it is, then they can void the warranty. Oil Analysis would most likely be a part of this process to determine if the lube was at fault. Wanna talk ? (918) 636-1281 or Email me at: lubes4u@myexcel.com Thanks.

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My understanding of the Magnuson-Moss Act is, The manufacturer cannot require the consumer to use their parts, but those parts must meet or exceed original specs, but can require services to be performed at certain intervals as specified in the owners manual. If Amsoil oil and filters meet or exceed the manufacturers specs and the consumer does the required service at the stated intervals then no problem.
Any oil, petroleum or synthetic, has a recommended drain interval by the oil mfr. - the car mfr. also has their own recommendations they are not always the same. The Magnason-Moss act assures consumers that Mfr.'s of OEM details cannot gain a monopoly on the market by requiring the use of their parts unless there is a mechanical reason to do so; if there is not a mechanical reason, that OEM must provide said part FREE of charge. Folks who have engine failures, should always use Oil Analysis as their first line of defense , no matter what oil they're using, because the results of those tests will ultimately be the determining factor in whether the Warranty claim is accepted or denied.

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I think I will stick with changing oil and filter based on vehicle manufacturers scheduled time frame for the one thats still in warranty and that's 7 years 70K miles, even thou it has synthetic in it. The question is not about oil or filter or repair parts, its easy to find oil and filters and other parts that meet manufacturers spec in most cases. Its about preventive maintanance being done in a timely fashion.
I use AMSOIL in all of my vehicles (new & under 100K warranty) and old.

It is not a miracle product - you won't lose weight and grow back the hair you lost if you use it.
You can run 25,000 miles on some of their oil - people have for 30 years and there are not a flood of horror stories on the net. I personally choose 15,000 and pull a trailer everywhere I go.

I use it for properties and features it offers - just like we choose any product. It is a good oil as well as Rotella, Mobil1, etc.

And let's all face it. . . with modern engines, just how many times do any of us really "know for sure" of an instance of engine failure during the warranty period where the type of oil and the service interval was an issue.
Car dealers try to deny claims based on oil change history all the time:


http://consumeraffairs.com/automotive/dodge_dur_oil.html


Remember, the car company will have extremely high priced legal advise, and they can claim that prior poor maintence caused the problem, even if the oil currently in the engine analyses OK.


Having said that, Amsoil apparently would protect a customer in that situation, or try to:

http://www.north-american-lubricants.com/articles/extended_drain_intervals_warranties.htm

Personally, I feel more comfortable using a mid priced synthetic and changing it at the absolute longest manufacturer apporved OCI during during the warranty. That would be something like 7,500 miles on Mobil 1 for me. Amsoil certainly performs well, but I'm unsure if very many people actually need the additional performance it offers over Mobil 1, Delvac 1, or German Castrol, espeically if they do not plan on keeping their cars for 200,000+ miles.
Red Line also makes a 5w20 Group V lubricant.

www.redlineoil.com

BTW, Ford went to the 5w20 not for the purposes of extending engine life, as the data are not in yet to confirm that 5w20 will stand up to high load, high temp field use. I am recommending a 30weight (0,5, or 10) synoil for my colleagues int he trade.

I found proof that Ford went to 5w20 as "pushed" by the FTC, and they do not recommend synthetics based on pressure from the FTC as well.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/ccd0112.pdf
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Woods:
I think I will stick with changing oil and filter based on vehicle manufacturers scheduled time frame for the one thats still in warranty and that's 7 years 70K miles, even thou it has synthetic in it. The question is not about oil or filter or repair parts, its easy to find oil and filters and other parts that meet manufacturers spec in most cases. Its about preventive maintanance being done in a timely fashion.


I looked at some of the Durango sludge threads and the dealers were denying warranties stating "maintenance not done by qualified shop" or such the like. How do you get around that? Kind of takes oil changes out of our hands.
Well, obviously, the big thing is to keep good records. Besides that, I think that the dealer is more prone to honoring claims if you come into the dealership with your records ready, ask questions that display your technical knowledge on the subject, and if they start to balk, bring up the Magnason-Moss act in conversation, perhaps how you were discussing it with a lawyer friend.

All of this is much simpler if you did change at a recomended OCI, in part because the average service manager knows so little about oil that he won't realize that appropriate oil analyses on longer OCI's will hold up in court.


Also, I brought up AMSOIL's own waranty earlier, and I have just become aware that they are know to refuse coverage if they believe that the engine in question has an engineering defect.


As to the 5W20 for CAFE requirements, I'm undecided. Motorcraft 5W20 is a pretty stout oil, actually a blend, and it turns in good wear numbers (some engines to 100k+). Also, I can't imagine why Ford would TSB the 5W20 retroactively if it wasn't at least partially for improvements in other areas besides mileage, the EPA doesn't count what happens to mileage on a 1995 Taurus when figuring out CAFE points, does it?
In regards to AMSOIL not paying under their warranty...

I think it should be noted. A dealer cannot deny warranty work because you run any oil for any service length unless they prove that the oil usage caused the failure. Ie, even if you run 100,000 mile oil changes the dealer can't say that your tranny failure was the result of your poor maint.

AMSOIL's warranty is specific for oil related engine failures. Their decision not to pay for engine problems that are documented or have numerous reported failure areas based on a design flaw seems reasonable to me. Eg. there are some Dodge/Chrylser engines that are known to sludge and have poor oil circulation. AMSOIL or any other oil manufacturer should not be liable if an oil sample pulled at the catastrophic event shows the oil was still within service specs.

All of that being said, unless one wants to have ALL work done at a dealer, and use ONLY dealer parts and fluids then you might find yourself in a catch 22 position. HOWEVER, even if you do all of these things, a dealer still may tell you that you have ABUSED the vehicle with the way you use it.

Find a product you like, use it, and hopefully the engine will last longer than the car body.

The week is half over !!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Woods:
I think I will stick with changing oil and filter based on vehicle manufacturers scheduled time frame for the one thats still in warranty and that's 7 years 70K miles, even thou it has synthetic in it. The question is not about oil or filter or repair parts, its easy to find oil and filters and other parts that meet manufacturers spec in most cases. Its about preventive maintanance being done in a timely fashion.


A very good choice. Being with a government fleet, Ford has told us that an engine warranty could be voided by not using the approved and the correct type of lubricants and not following the recommended maintenance schedules. We follow the manufacturers recommendations on service intervals(sometimes even more frequent) and have had minimal engine problems. Better safe than sorry!
High guy's,new to the forum,I would to know if the 5w-20 oils in synthetic will protect your engine's as well as 5w-30. I have two new (2004 F-150,2004 mercury mountaineer,that require these lighter vis. oils. If this mean's anything,the service person at my merc. dealer said they did not use 5w-20,they used 5w-30,and she said it would not void your warr. What do you all think.
The answer is...it depends. What oils are we talking about! What temps does it see? How long do you keep cars?

Motorcraft 5W20 is really good stuff, in fact probably better than any of the other dino 5W20's out there. It turns in great used oil anaylis reports in many applications.

If a mercury dealer isn't using 5W20, I would be VERY suspicious. First off, the EPA would be pretty irritated about that, as the letter posted earlier implies that dealers are required to supply the same oil as used for mileage calculations. Second, I would be suspicous that they have a bunch of ancient 5W30 they are trying to unload. I'd want to know exactly what 5W30 they were using, and also make certain that you get actual Motorcraft filters.

5W30 won't void your warantee, in my oppinion it is wise to stick to the reccomended OCI though. Dino 5W30 often shears down to about 20 in vicosity anyway, so I would probably run the motorcraft 5W20.

If you're changing at the manufacturer's reccomended OCI, and you plan on keeping the car for 10 years or less, I would run the motorcraft 5W20 and Motorcraft filers. If you see temp extremes, or simply want a better oil I'd run Mobil 1, probably in 5W30,(nothing wrong with 0W20, but Wal-Mart sells the 5W30 for $18-19/5 qts).

Motorcraft's filters are an excellent value in Ford applications...they cost less than $3, and are very, very well built with media similar to a Purolator PureONE, a Wix style bypass, and a silcone ADBV.

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