compressor oil

I just got the below response from AMSOIL. Info on this product can be found at http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/pci.aspx?zo=1181889 and http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1310.pdf . Here is a white paper comparing this product to competitors in several standard tests http://www.superoilcentral.com...sor_white_paper7.pdf. The AMSOIL product ranked #1, the Mobil (Exxon) product ranked #2 and the Atlas product ranked #6. Yet the AMSOIL product cost half as much as the others. If you'd like info on wholesale pricing or anything else, feel free to contact me at 713-301-1872.

Thank you for contacting AMSOIL.

In response to your inquiry,

We recommend our Synthetic Compressor Oil - ISO 46, SAE 20 (PCI) to replace the Roto-Xtend Fluid. Some of the advantages are the 8000 hour drain interval, performance and price.

Sincerely,

Chris Kempton
AMSOIL Technical Service

I've attached the results of a baseline on RotoExtend oil. From what I can see there is nothing extrodinary about this oil to justify the $5200/barrel cost. I've gone round and round with A-C about what makes this oil worth the $$ and all I get is that it has a "special additive package". I don't see it so I'm having a hard time, without a strong technical reason, to spending the money when there are a host of good compressor oils out there both dino and synthetic. Shop around, summit, LE and a bunch of other blenders can supply you what you need at a better price. IMHO I don't think any of these oil suppliers have the magic bullet when it comes to lubricants. There is way too much $$$ spent on marketing and unproven statements so beware.

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Originally posted by rgf12:
I've attached the results of a baseline on RotoExtend oil. From what I can see there is nothing extrodinary about this oil to justify the $5200/barrel cost. I've gone round and round with A-C about what makes this oil worth the $$ and all I get is that it has a "special additive package". I don't see it so I'm having a hard time, without a strong technical reason, to spending the money when there are a host of good compressor oils out there both dino and synthetic. Shop around, summit, LE and a bunch of other blenders can supply you what you need at a better price. IMHO I don't think any of these oil suppliers have the magic bullet when it comes to lubricants. There is way too much $$$ spent on marketing and unproven statements so beware.

Wow! The AMSOIL is $1342 wholesale for a 55 gallon drum of PAO synthetic.

Tim why the "Wow" about the Amsoil price, you just looked up your price book, so why be so surprised?

In relation to the Atlas Copco product, they used to be blended / rebranded by Shell from their Corena AS PAO product for Atlas. I don't believe it would be too much more sophisticated than that. An equivalent in Exxon Mobil will be their SHC Rarus range of products. With both products you will have issues with varnish and oxidation byproducts if you run them in extreme applications. We do a lot with drilling companies in 45C+ conditions and if they use the PAO products they have the above listed issues.

Cheers,

Rodney Fitzpatrick.

quote:

Originally posted by Rodney Fitzpatrick:
Tim why the "Wow" about the Amsoil price, you just looked up your price book, so why be so surprised?

The surprise was not from the low price of the AMSOIL synthetic, but that the Atlas product was nearly 4 times higher.

quote:

Originally posted by Rodney Fitzpatrick:
In relation to the Atlas Copco product, they used to be blended / rebranded by Shell from their Corena AS PAO product for Atlas. I don't believe it would be too much more sophisticated than that. An equivalent in Exxon Mobil will be their SHC Rarus range of products. With both products you will have issues with varnish and oxidation byproducts if you run them in extreme applications. We do a lot with drilling companies in 45C+ conditions and if they use the PAO products they have the above listed issues.

Cheers,

Rodney Fitzpatrick.

I haven't heard of those issues with the AMSOIL product. I guess they use better base oils and additives. For example comparing the AMSOIL the Exxon Mobil SHC Rarus product you mention, the AMSOIL product performed 70% better in the Rotating Pressure Vessel Oxidation Test (RPVOT) ASTM D-2272 at 150C , double the acidity protection in ASTM D-2610 at 93.5C, no copper corrosion, 6 times better Demulsibility ASTM D-1401 at 54.4C, 45% less wear in ASTM D-4172 at 75C, higher Viscosity Index, lower pour point, for about half the price.

Tim-Posting of generic oil test results without third party (independent lab) verification is not a help to someone who is trying to make a decision on what oil to use. If you are an Amsoil distributor or employee you should identify yourself as such. There are many who frequent boards such as these that are seeking unbiased information and the increased presence of vendors and/or salesman pushing product does not improve the quality of the information on the boards.IMHO

Higher RPVOT doesn't mean a lot on a new oil.

It's how it changes that counts.

quote:

Originally posted by rgf12:
Tim-Posting of generic oil test results without third party (independent lab) verification is not a help to someone who is trying to make a decision on what oil to use. If you are an Amsoil distributor or employee you should identify yourself as such. There are many who frequent boards such as these that are seeking unbiased information and the increased presence of vendors and/or salesman pushing product does not improve the quality of the information on the boards.IMHO

I disagree. Southwest Research Institute and other renown 3rd party laboratories do the comparison testing of AMSOIL and the named products with standard ASTM tests that any certified lab could reproduce. AMSOIL publishes the results of the independent lab results. None of the other oil companies dispute the data, and they would if they could. I would like to see the other oil companies publish their own white papers and compare to AMSOIL, but they don't. I'm sure they have the data, but don't make it public.

If you check my profile, you will see my website which clearly identifies me as an independent AMSOIL dealer. I am not an AMSOIL employee. If I could find better products, I can sell those as well. I am also a retired Shell Oil scientist.

quote:

Originally posted by RobertC:
Higher RPVOT doesn't mean a lot on a new oil.

It's how it changes that counts.

AMSOIL disagrees that higher RPVOT doesn't mean a lot on a new oil. "The RPVOT can
also be used to compare new oils to provide a correlation between the RPVOT value and an oil’s useful life before oxida-
tion occurs.A high RPVOT number correlates to high oxidation resistance and long oil life.A low RPVOT number correlates
to low resistance to oxidation and short oil life."

AMSOIL and other companies also offers Used Oil Analysis which will help determine the oil's useful life.

Great posts all! Tim, being a retired Shell Oil scientist do you know what the repeatability of the RPVOT test is? From what I understand it's not very good with oils greater than 1000 min.

Jeff

That is my understanding as well. Repeatability has been reported at 12%. However all of the tests in this white paper were performed by the same person, so the ranking is likely unchanged. SWRI likely did the testing, so am pretty confident the numbers are the best possible. And none of the other oil companies seem to dispute the test results.

and BP before Shell....

And all of this is rocket fuel catalyst related how?

sorry, Base RPCOT is base RPVOT, change is the key.

Not all oils and uses are the same, and their minutes don't decline the same.

This is hardly rocket science. That is why Used Oil Analyses are performed.

Yes Tim, Amsoil products are reverse-engineered by Gods and marketed by saints, just ask any Amsoil cult-member, er, sales rep.

Amsoil may have taken a brief lead in synthetics in the 60's; but that was a long time ago and they have been lapped repeatedly since then. Anyone who has seen a coupla-three recent tearaparts knows not only how far Amsoil is behind the current leaders, but whose brains they've been picking.

No amount of cherry-picked bench test data is going to overcome the fact that they are using last year's molecules.

Bench test data is pretty useless for comparison in general, unless you know which data handling guidelines are in use. How does Amsoil handle replicate analyses? Based on their highly optimistic marketing data and in light of their archaic formulations, I'd hazard a guess that they use the very popular "run it 'til it passes, then throw the rest of the results out" data handling guidelines.

At some places they fire you for that, some places they promote you.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
Yes Tim, Amsoil products are reverse-engineered by Gods and marketed by saints, just ask any Amsoil cult-member, er, sales rep.

If they are reverse engineered, why do they outperform and out warranty the competition?

quote:

Amsoil may have taken a brief lead in synthetics in the 60's; but that was a long time ago and they have been lapped repeatedly since then.

AMSOIL was not around in the 60's. AMSOIL started in the 70's. Lapped by whom? How? Who else has warranted their motor oils for 25,000 miles for the past 38 years? Who has shown their oils outperform AMSOIL? No one. As shown earlier, AMSOIL leads, the others follow.

quote:

Anyone who has seen a coupla-three recent tearaparts knows not only how far Amsoil is behind the current leaders, but whose brains they've been picking.

Details please. The tear aparts I've seen clearly show AMSOIL outperforms the competition with fewer oil changes.

quote:

No amount of cherry-picked bench test data is going to overcome the fact that they are using last year's molecules.

Evidence? The other oil companies have not disputed AMSOIL's test data.

quote:

Bench test data is pretty useless for comparison in general, unless you know which data handling guidelines are in use.

Hardly useless, since all oil companies use them.

quote:

How does Amsoil handle replicate analyses?

Feel free to ask them and the highly respected 3rd party labs such as SouthWest Research Institute that do their undisputed comparison testing using standard ASTM testing.

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Based on their highly optimistic marketing data and in light of their archaic formulations

quote:

proof? and why do they outperform and out warranty their competition if archaic?

, I'd hazard a guess that they use the very popular "run it 'til it passes, then throw the rest of the results out" data handling guidelines.

proof? If so, then other labs could easily duplicate the testing and show AMSOIL wrong. They never have.

How about some proof to back up your strange, unfounded opinions? Why your hatred of AMSOIL products? AMSOIL is a family owned company, a great American success story, provides employment and business opportunities for thousands, clearly makes excellent products, was responsible for many industry synthetic firsts, openly compare their products to the competition and challenge them to make better products. I wish other companies would do the same.

Oiginal poster asked: "Has anyone ever heard of ROTO-XTND compressor oil for atlas compressors? If so is there an equivent Exxon/Mobil product."

Why do these simple inquiries rapidly degrade into an Amsoil advert/ bash at almost every turn??

Why aren't the Shell/Exxon/BP etc reps pushing their wares in these threads??

Seems like far too much chaff here for the wheat that is gleaned ....

I suppose the reason the other oil companies are not pushing or pimping their products mainly comes down to their business model and quite possibly, respect. This is a message board, it is intended for persons to learn, share best practices and seek advice from other end users. It is not intended to be plagued with individuals constantly touting their oil, product or component is the best or better than everyone else’s. I myself am in sales; my company offers several products that could very well solve a lot of these people’s issues. Out of respect to others reading the board, I post a reply on the thread that I may have a solution and it they’re interested please email me. I then communicate directly with that person. Just my 2 cents!

quote:

Originally posted by Papa Bear:
...

Why do these simple inquiries rapidly degrade into an Amsoil advert/ bash at almost every turn??

Why aren't the Shell/Exxon/BP etc reps pushing their wares in these threads??
....

Why does every request for advice have to be answered with the amsoil product du jour?

This isn't supposed to be a sales form. Yet, here we are.

And I know that a couple of oil companies do at least browse these threadfs, officially? dunno, but I've spoken with people who are familiar.

They just choose to lie low. Pretty smart if you ask me.

An interesting subject and discussion has got skewed mid way. Probably, if one is not too brash or push a product aggressively, the forum is readable; with good all round sharing of knowledge and experiences. Lets keep it as a forum for sharing Lube experiences.

Hussam Adeni

quote:

Ummm...In my second post I gave him the Exxon product information he requested

I don't see it.

Wow, I just peeked at this thread, seems there are a few of us sick of the Amsoil sales drive on this board. Seems if Amsoil sells it Tim pushes it. It really makes it hard for a discussion when everything is turned into an Amsoil sale. IMO the big Amsoil push is turning quite a few people off.

Good products sell themselves, I don't see the RL or Pennzoil people here pushing their products. But then again they don't have to! I wonder what the Amsoil CEO would think if he had a look at what goes on here? I don't think he'd be happy. Quite a few of us will never use the product because of what is going on here. I can't speak for them but my guess is Big Bear, Trajan, myself and several others won't touch the Amsoil stuff now.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by lube engr:
Has anyone ever heard of ROTO-XTND compressor oil for atlas compressors? If so is there an equivent Exxon/Mobil product.

Tim, this is the OP's original post, I do not see where he is asking about Amsoil, it would be different if he was asking for the best product, and then you could have jumped in with your opinion.

" The AMSOIL product ranked #1, the Mobil (Exxon) product ranked #2 and the Atlas product ranked #6."

Atlas Copco builds compressors, they do not formulate or blend lubricants. "Their" oil is a rebrand of a major's compressor oil. If we knew which one, and we knew where that ranked in this survey, then we'd know something about the quality of the data. At this point all we have is something The Church Lady would call 'very convenient'.

Oh but I forgot, these data came from the legendary SwRI. I've run samples through SwRI. It's a 3rd-party lab, better than most, but those folks are not gods. (And they have possibly the most obtuse website design I've run into. Everytime I finally find their test list, I want to leave a trail of bread crumbs on the way out.)

quote:

Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
" The AMSOIL product ranked #1, the Mobil (Exxon) product ranked #2 and the Atlas product ranked #6."

Atlas Copco builds compressors, they do not formulate or blend lubricants. "Their" oil is a rebrand of a major's compressor oil. If we knew which one, and we knew where that ranked in this survey, then we'd know something about the quality of the data. At this point all we have is something The Church Lady would call 'very convenient'.

Oh but I forgot, these data came from the legendary SwRI. I've run samples through SwRI. It's a 3rd-party lab, better than most, but those folks are not gods. (And they have possibly the most obtuse website design I've run into. Everytime I finally find their test list, I want to leave a trail of bread crumbs on the way out.)

Lamont, I am in full agreement with what you have said. I too was looking at the data early on to try to figure out who was making the Atlas product. The other products did not exactly match up. I was not surprised that the Atlas product performance was further down the list, as the equipment manufacturers oil is generally formulated by another company to meet the minimum specs they submit, and often goes to the lowest bidder to increase profit. One of the other oil companies listed in the report could have made the Atlas product, but to meet the bid, they could have up or down graded their formulation to do so, and thus the difference in test results if indeed one of those companies made the Atlas oil. I was also looking for an Atlas MSDS. Sometimes the oil blender is listed on it as the company that made the MSDS, but I could not find that info.