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Good evening guys!!

i'm from indonesia. i have a friend that has a problem to solve. i hope some of you guys have experience in solving it. In a site in Palembang, there's many logging industry. And almost all of them have problem in lubrication for their trucks (most of them use japanese truck which operated in severe heavy load, off-road,and very humid atmosphere). And many complaint from operators that using the sae 40 causing overheat. I suppose it comes from the severe load they carried. Is it okay to switch to sae 50? is there any technical explanation and justification for that step? Or maybe using oil additives is the ultimate solutions? thanx. Confused
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I am by no means an expert, nor experienced in heavy trucks, but an ester based oil will take the heat a lot better. Not sure what brands are available in your area, but Redline Oil makes various multigrades that have no viscosity index improver (except 5w40) and so are essentially straight weight oils that meet the multigrade criteria. Also, they say you can use a thinner grade, that is if you are using 10w40 you can use Redline 10w30 as it will protect as well. Might try Redline 10w40, unless you are operating diesels, in which case Redline makes a 15w40 diesel oil. But it your engine has leaks they will get worse with the ester based oil.
I recommend the 15w-40 Marine and Diesel oil from AMSOIL. A true synthetic will run cooler than a petroleum oil. If you are burning oil or leaking oil, then you must not use the AMSOIL as it will find every leak you have. I also recommend the bypass filter system to remove moisture from the oil in a humid climate. The filter element holds water until the oil temp is hot enough to burn it off. Look at www.lubedealer.com/tntsynthetics and click on the 'other links' button and read the diesel products page
I work with a lot of people in clearing trees for farm land and working in the fields in heavy equipment, truck, tractors, etc. Use a good group II or better oil. Chevron Delo should be available there or something else similar. Some use 20W-50, but few brands carry it.
The real cause of overheating is normally clogged radiators, either externally or internally. Check both. I've seen radiators with so much mud, tree shreds, chaf, etc. that there was no way air could flow. Make sure the water can circulate freely, using a laser pyrometer up and down the radiator for cold spots. Use of newer ELC (spec CAT EC-1) coolants give 8% better heat transfer than regular coolants.
One truck the other day had a cheap radiator hose without the spring inside on the suction side. It colapsed when it heated, starving the system.
If you can handle the spanish, I have a maintenance buletin and another section on cooling systems on www.widman.biz
Inuchiyo,
First thing to look at in an overheating problem, is your cooling system.
does your cooling system have a silicate (white residue) build up when you look down into the radiator (a COOL radiator) through the filler tube? Are you using a "Green" coolant or a "Red" one?
The problem with "Green" coolants is that they already have a "Silicate" content when they are manufactured. When this combines with a "Hard" water being added to make up the 50/50 mix in the system, Silicates really build up.
Green coolants also are continously putting down a coating of silicates (by their very nature) to protect the cooling system from corrosion. THis build up does not conduct heat away from the engine components to the coolant worth beans!
Use an Extended Life Coolant (Red) such as the one recommended by Caterpillar International. I have a lot of experience in Heavy Fleet operations in the Deserts of the American Southwest and the swamps of Florida. The right coolant, and the upkeep of that coolant (VERY IMPORTANT) can make or break an operation. Texaco Extended Life Coolant (ELC) could solve your problem. In Eurasia Texaco is called CALTEX. Go to this site
http://www.chevrontexacolubricants.com/worldwide/asiapacific/default.asp
Click your language, then click the extended life coolants. Check with your local Lube Engineers (in Eurasia) on this one. They should be of great help with your friends situation.Hope this helps
Inuchiyo, We have had experience with heavy transport in Australia.
There are three areas to consider.
1. There are many ester based synthetics available. The very best are poly-ol-esters which are used by Redline Oil.It uses a long chain molecule wich helps transfer heat readily. It also handles extreme temeratures without suffering molecular failure. It is also water resistant- moisture does not chemically attack the base stock. It also has excellent lubrication properties.
2. Cooling system. Redline oil sell a heat transfer agent combined with an extremely high grade corrosion package called "Water wetter"(exceeds ASTM D2570). It will help the trucks to get rid of the heat produced in the engines far more effectively.
3. Bad fuel quality can cause excessive carbon buildup within engine causing excessive heat to be trapped in this carbon layer which gets absorbed by the metal around the cylinder and hence passed onto the cooling system. If the cylinder is "clean", this heat would be passed out with the exhaust gasses. Again Redline produce a number of packages to treat all these factors including high powered detergents to clean combustion chamber, remove water and moisture, control bacterial growth and stabalise diesel fuel, etc. These can be used on a truck-by-truck basis or they can be used at storage tank level. If you have trouble getting this locally, please contact me via redlineoil@redlineoil.com.au
Regards,
Roger M
quote:
Originally posted by Inuchiyo:
Good evening guys!!

i'm from indonesia. i have a friend that has a problem to solve. i hope some of you guys have experience in solving it. In a site in Palembang, there's many logging industry. And almost all of them have problem in lubrication for their trucks (most of them use japanese truck which operated in severe heavy load, off-road,and very humid atmosphere). And many complaint from operators that using the sae 40 causing overheat. I suppose it comes from the severe load they carried. Is it okay to switch to sae 50? is there any technical explanation and justification for that step? Or maybe using oil additives is the ultimate solutions? thanx. Confused
thanx a lot guys!

for sharing your experience with me. You know, in Indonesia most of the equipment operators don't have enough knowledge about lubrications, so they were easily get bluffed or believing in many un-professional and un-justified statements by oil sellers. And that's sucks!

Right now i'm taking more time to learn about lubrications foundations. So, it's good to meet this website and all of you guys.

I'll try to get more accurate data if i met any lubrications problems.
Attention : Cooling system.

thanx. Wink
I doubt switching oils is going to affect coolant temperatures much. 50 weight oil may be a good idea if ambient temperatures are that high.

Waterwetter may help keep temps down but it is very expensive for a large coolant system as those in trucks.

Your best bet is to see if there are thermostats available for those engines that will open at lower temps.

You could also check the water temp sensor for either the shutters or the thermatic fan(I have no idea what those engines use). This could be changed for a lower temperature one or bypassed altogether to keep the shutters open or the fan going all the time. By-passing is a good thing to try to see if it works instead of buying parts right off.
If the trucks are overheating, there is another reason for that, not oil related, they probably need heavier duty radiators, however, under extreme condition, Delo 400, Delvac Super/MX, Delvac-I would all do well, Delo 400 is the best value considering its Indonesia, under high temps, it will retain its lubricity unlike a regular SAE 40 oil, also leave way less deposits in the engine.
I agree, there are most likely other factors invo**ed.

LE 8800 (15W-40) is an excellent Diesel engine oil. Lowers operating temps, increases fuel mileage and extends drains.

But you also want to lower Transission temps. Most likely adding to your high overall operating temps.

LE 7500 Power fuilds offers decreased operating temps (approx 20 F.) by reducing friction and cavitation.

In addition you may want to take a look at your coolant fuilds. Red Line "Water Weter" works well for lowering coolant temps. It works best however with lower concentrations of anti-freeze. Royal Purple also makes a similiar product but I've never used it.

Take a look a electric fans if equiped with engine driven fans.
quote:
Originally posted by Inuchiyo:
thanx a lot guys!

for sharing your experience with me. You know, in Indonesia most of the equipment operators don't have enough knowledge about lubrications, so they were easily get bluffed or believing in many un-professional and un-justified statements by oil sellers. And that's sucks!

Right now i'm taking more time to learn about lubrications foundations. So, it's good to meet this website and all of you guys.

I'll try to get more accurate data if i met any lubrications problems.
Attention : Cooling system.

thanx. Wink



Sorry to say but none of the oils listed will do much if anything to lower engine temp the redline maybe a few degres C only.
I would look at add on electric fans to help radiator air flow or just a good radiator coolant system flush and run clean water 90% antifreeze 10%. that will give the most increase in cooling not oil.
bruce
I would have to agree with bruce381. I doubt changing oil is going to cause a drastic change in your operating temp's. Your problem is a cooling problem more than it is a lubricating problem. Will high quality lubricants lower temps? Sure, but not enough to take a real notice of in engine temp.

First thing I would check is if your fan clutch is operating correctly. If you have a viscus fan clutch it may be bad and not locking up the fan. This means it is not spinning as fast as it should and decreases the air flow across the radiator. You may find if you have a electric or oil operated fan clutch that all you need to do is change your temp sensor in the fan clutch system to a lower temp. This would cause the fan to turn on earlier before the temps get to high. Next, check and see if it is possible to install a lar*** diameter fan on the engine. You may also find that you can get a fan blade with more blades. This also increases air flow across the radiator.

Another thing to check is if the Air to Air cooler and the radiator are pluged with dirt. This is a very common problem in off road trucks. I have repaired alot of trucks over the years that had high operating temps and found the cause to be dirt trapped in between the cooling fins of the radiator and Air to Air after cooler. You might just be supprised how much crud get's stuck in between the fins and how much it effects the performance of the radiator. Try a air blow gun and blowing it out from the back side. If you see large clouds of dust you found your problem.

Still no luck go with the addition of a electric cooling fan as mentioned previously. Anything to increase air flow across the radiator.

How old are the trucks? If your filling your radiators with tap water and not distilled water you might have a pluged radiator. The internal pasages in the radiator collect the hard water particles and over time restrict flow or completly block it. It's another possiblility.

Good high quality lubricants in the rear axles, transmission, transfer case (if they are 6x6 or 8x8 trucks) and engine oil are the start of any good preventative maintenance program and can greatly reduce maintenance cost and down-time. The problem is the cooling system and the charging/battery system are very often overlooked if not forgoten altogether until problems arise.

If you have transmission and rear axle temps that are high you can often greatly reduce their operating temps with a good quality lubricant. It's another place to check for coolers to. Some transmissions and rear axles have external coolers that are hidden under the truck and collect high amounts of dirt. Be sure to keep them clean as well. I have found Texas Refinery Corp.'s gear/transmission oils are great at reducing operating temps. I have personally worked on some off road loging trucks that had their trans and rear axle temps reduced by as much as 60-70 dregres by just filling them with a superior lubricant.

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