MMO or Auto-Rx

I've used both. I'm using arx now, just to use it up. Not going to buy it again though. I don't think it's bad, just not worth the money.

I prefer MMO. Much cheaper. More flexible. Can get it at Walmart. I ran 2K miles with a qt of MMO in the oil. I still have the filter in fact.

Brent you got most of your product free you got cut off and had to pay knowing you its no wonder you like the inexpensive products.

My father used both MMO and A-rX, and will stick to MMO. Does the same thing as A-rX only better, faster and for less money were his words, and you can use it with Synthetic oil. I have a bottle of A-rX he gave me, I haven't used it. A nice plus with MMO is winter time starts in colder climates are much easier with MMO. Great product!!!!!!!!

AD

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:
I've used both. I'm using arx now, just to use it up. Not going to buy it again though. I don't think it's bad, just not worth the money.

I prefer MMO. Much cheaper. More flexible. Can get it at Walmart. I ran 2K miles with a qt of MMO in the oil. I still have the filter in fact.

Trajen....I thought you didn't have any concerns or issues over sludge??? Different story on this thread I notice.

Why not use 100% PAO SYNTHETIC OIL. Sludge will not be an issue then!

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:
I've used both. I'm using arx now, just to use it up. Not going to buy it again though. I don't think it's bad, just not worth the money.

I prefer MMO. Much cheaper. More flexible. Can get it at Walmart. I ran 2K miles with a qt of MMO in the oil. I still have the filter in fact.

Trajen....I thought you didn't have any concerns or issues over sludge??? Different story on this thread I notice.

Why not use 100% PAO SYNTHETIC OIL. Sludge will not be an issue then!

Don't recall saying I had a sludge probelm. Can you show me where I said I did?

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:
I've used both. I'm using arx now, just to use it up. Not going to buy it again though. I don't think it's bad, just not worth the money.

I prefer MMO. Much cheaper. More flexible. Can get it at Walmart. I ran 2K miles with a qt of MMO in the oil. I still have the filter in fact.

Trajen....I thought you didn't have any concerns or issues over sludge??? Different story on this thread I notice.

Why not use 100% PAO SYNTHETIC OIL. Sludge will not be an issue then!

Don't recall saying I had a sludge probelm. Can you show me where I said I did?

You just did in all the above posts!! You're using products dedicated for sludge removal!!!! That says it AAALLLLL!!!!!!

Actually a product like MMO will keep an engine spotless and if someone were to start using 10% to 25% MMO per Oil Volume on each OCI they would never have to worry about sludge.

Auto-Rx on the other hand needs oil flow and heat to combat sludge, and since arx does not work well under splash lubrication then it cannot fight the sludge.

I like to think of using MMO in the oil as preventative maintenance. MMO does just as good of a job of preventing sludge as well as it does in cleaning up the sludge.

If your engine is made out of Aluminum or if you have Aluminum Cylinder heads do not expect auto-rx to work since aluminum is porous and arx has a hard time removing these contaniments.

Auto-Rx needs heat to work and since Aluminum dissipates heat 5 times faster than cast iron then arx has a problem. The other problem is that arx was never meant to be used in automobiles since it was designed for printing presses where the internals are made out of cast iron.

Would Synlube clean up a dirty engine as well as MMO, or is Synlube meant to be used on a new engine only, maybe Capatain Kirk can weigh in on this subject since I do not know if Synlube has cleaning abilities like MMO.

quote:

Originally posted by C3PO:
Actually a product like MMO will keep an engine spotless and if someone were to start using 10% to 25% MMO per Oil Volume on each OCI they would never have to worry about sludge.

Auto-Rx on the other hand needs oil flow and heat to combat sludge, and since arx does not work well under splash lubrication then it cannot fight the sludge.

I like to think of using MMO in the oil as preventative maintenance. MMO does just as good of a job of preventing sludge as well as it does in cleaning up the sludge.

If your engine is made out of Aluminum or if you have Aluminum Cylinder heads do not expect auto-rx to work since aluminum is porous and arx has a hard time removing these contaniments.

Auto-Rx needs heat to work and since Aluminum dissipates heat 5 times faster than cast iron then arx has a problem. The other problem is that arx was never meant to be used in automobiles since it was designed for printing presses where the internals are made out of cast iron.

Would Synlube clean up a dirty engine as well as MMO, or is Synlube meant to be used on a new engine only, maybe Capatain Kirk can weigh in on this subject since I do not know if Synlube has cleaning abilities like MMO.

I installed synlube in a 1991 cadillac 4.9 that I bought from a lockheed Engineer with 140k.

The car had the oil change inicator monitor.

The engineer had tons of oil change receipts.

The synlube cleaned up so much sludge on the first filter change....confirmed by cutting open the first filter at 3000 miles. It was loaded with sludge...full of lsludge......it was in bypass mode for sure.

The next filters had less and less. The car was totaled from a a head on collision at 169k with the same synlube and a very sweet running engine!

The car Never failed any emission test and used ALMOST NO OIL!! The 4.9 V8 AVG. was 19 Mpg.

I would look into the valve cover monthly and only saw a very clean environment!!

So...yes the synlube cleans like I have never seen before!! Just try cutting open the first filter on a used car to prove it!!

Just change the first few filters on time....it's that good.

Also,the synlube site does list a flush synlube oil for engines that need it if you desire to use that first!


Knowing all of that......If I could have done it again with the caddy..I would have flushed it out first with the MMO first for 500 miles or less.......then move onto the synlube flush......and then the intial fill. That's how much sludge that caddy actually had. Getting out sludge in stages is always best anyway because of filter bypass issues in sludged up engines!

Kirk

Sure. MMO will probably do as you prescribe. But I have no need to adulterate perfectly blended, state of the art lubricants with it. The same objections apply to MMO that some assert do to Auto-Rx. If it's such a good thing, why don't the blenders do it add it themselves? Auto-Rx is a much more elegant product than MMO. Yes, it's surely more expensive, but I feel that you do get what you pay for.

Feel free to use MMO and get whatever you can out of it. I just can't see tampering with a perfectly good oil to prevent something that should not occur. Auto-Rx, outside of the one natural ester component, is a friction modifier and an ester base stock. In a normal engine, a routine decoking of the rings every 50k-75k works well. In a problem engine, once clean, the maintenance dose would probably be the best way to go.

But as I said, enjoy the benefits of MMO as you perceive them.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

quote:

Originally posted by C3PO:
Actually a product like MMO will keep an engine spotless and if someone were to start using 10% to 25% MMO per Oil Volume on each OCI they would never have to worry about sludge.

Auto-Rx on the other hand needs oil flow and heat to combat sludge, and since arx does not work well under splash lubrication then it cannot fight the sludge.

I like to think of using MMO in the oil as preventative maintenance. MMO does just as good of a job of preventing sludge as well as it does in cleaning up the sludge.

If your engine is made out of Aluminum or if you have Aluminum Cylinder heads do not expect auto-rx to work since aluminum is porous and arx has a hard time removing these contaniments.

Auto-Rx needs heat to work and since Aluminum dissipates heat 5 times faster than cast iron then arx has a problem. The other problem is that arx was never meant to be used in automobiles since it was designed for printing presses where the internals are made out of cast iron.

Would Synlube clean up a dirty engine as well as MMO, or is Synlube meant to be used on a new engine only, maybe Capatain Kirk can weigh in on this subject since I do not know if Synlube has cleaning abilities like MMO.

I installed synlube in a 1991 cadillac 4.9 that I bought from a lockheed Engineer with 140k.

The car had the oil change inicator monitor.

The engineer had tons of oil change receipts.

The synlube cleaned up so much sludge on the first filter change....confirmed by cutting open the first filter at 3000 miles. It was loaded with sludge...full of lsludge......it was in bypass mode for sure.

The next filters had less and less. The car was totaled from a a head on collision at 169k with the same synlube and a very sweet running engine!

The car Never failed any emission test and used ALMOST NO OIL!! The 4.9 V8 AVG. was 19 Mpg.

I would look into the valve cover monthly and only saw a very clean environment!!

So...yes the synlube cleans like I have never seen before!! Just try cutting open the first filter on a used car to prove it!!

Just change the first few filters on time....it's that good.

Also,the synlube site does list a flush synlube oil for engines that need it if you desire to use that first!

Kirk

I am not doubting Synlube's abilities in keeping an engine clean since Budman did post some pics on the other board that did show his valvetrain was spotless after having Synlube in his engine for 19,000 miles. I should add that the Synlube is still in his engine.

Its quite obvious that MMO keeps an engine clean as well as doing a great job in cleaning up dirty engines, so Captain Kirk how does Synlube keep an engine clean.

quote:

Its quite obvious that MMO keeps an engine clean as well as doing a great job in cleaning up dirty engines, so Captain Kirk how does Synlube keep an engine clean.

I suppose for all the technical aspects you could email the Synlube for the all the scientific information. However, almost all sludge/deposits are precipitated out from low grade oil or even group III synthetics that either cause the sludge or fail to keep the engine clean over time and milage.

Also using microglass oil filters and filter magnets augments the process to keep things clean.
Budmans engine looks like my engines do. I need to get some pics over hear to show that. Even the dipstick is varnish free!! I have even noticed the varnish being cleaned off the dipstick in the the Cadillac engine from the previous owner.

Is MMO available in Canada? If so, where?

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by inHaliburton:
Is MMO available in Canada? If so, where?

Thanks.

I see what you mean inHaliburton about MMO in Canada. Someone mentioned Amazon.com has it for sale. Maybe Ebay. Shipping might an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:
I've used both. I'm using arx now, just to use it up. Not going to buy it again though. I don't think it's bad, just not worth the money.

I prefer MMO. Much cheaper. More flexible. Can get it at Walmart. I ran 2K miles with a qt of MMO in the oil. I still have the filter in fact.

Trajen....I thought you didn't have any concerns or issues over sludge??? Different story on this thread I notice.

Why not use 100% PAO SYNTHETIC OIL. Sludge will not be an issue then!

Don't recall saying I had a sludge probelm. Can you show me where I said I did?

You just did in all the above posts!! You're using products dedicated for sludge removal!!!! That says it AAALLLLL!!!!!!

Then you are seeing things that are not there. Kindly show where I said I have a sludge problem my insipid little troll.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

quote:

Its quite obvious that MMO keeps an engine clean as well as doing a great job in cleaning up dirty engines, so Captain Kirk how does Synlube keep an engine clean.

I suppose for all the technical aspects you could email the Synlube for the all the scientific information. However, almost all sludge/deposits are precipitated out from low grade oil or even group III synthetics that either cause the sludge or fail to keep the engine clean over time and milage.

Also using microglass oil filters and filter magnets augments the process to keep things clean.
Budmans engine looks like my engines do. I need to get some pics over hear to show that. Even the dipstick is varnish free!! I have even noticed the varnish being cleaned off the dipstick in the the Cadillac engine from the previous owner.

Also, here is a pic inside my other car with Synlube:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...1842031&#Post1842031


Captin Kirk, this is a link to the PHOTO of Budman's valvetrain while using Synlube, I can't argue that Synlube is not doing a good job based on the photo I saw.

I would be interested to see how Budman's valvetrain looks at 50,000 miles and then again at 100,000 miles. If it still looks spotless at 150,000 miles then maybe there is something to this Synlube, time will tell.

I will say that when MMO is added to the oil it keeps any deposits in suspension without clogging up the oil filter.

In my case, I ran arx for 24,000 miles and it did not clean up anything in my valvetrain, I could always scrape the small amount of junk with a screwdriver, then I started using MMO and the deposits became softer and in 7000 miles my valvetrain was clean, meaning there was nothing to scrape off with a screwdriver.

I will kindly disagree with you about sludge formation, I have read that sludge forms from leaving the oil in an engine for too long of a time, the additive package gets weak and then sludge forms, also a malfunctioning PCV Valve can lead to sludge.

We've all seen the good and bad post's on Autorx... virtually everyone says it cleaned the sludge, some have pointed out the residual varnish still on the engine parts and the waxy crystals in the filters...hmmm. I got to thinking about it, and during re - orders I have discussed this with Frank. As a result, I think Autorx has really benefited from all the feedback here on Bob's site.

Just think about it - First, the feedback lets Frank know just what Autorx will and won't do in automotive applications. I understand that autorx was invented for another industry, and I think all of the metal parts dealt with were cast iron or steel. In those applications, I'm pretty sure Frank DID see all varnish gone. If y'all notice, all of the engines that have been presented as still being varnished after Autorx's applications were aluminum heads, valve covers, and rockers. I got to thinking about it, and I think the porosity of the aluminum accepts the color and hold it much more tenaciously than cast iron. I see that everyday in my shop, when cleaning aluminum vs cast iron. I don't think frank had been exposed to this before, so the members here have really helped Frank learn what autorx's abilities and limitations are.

Also, some have posted pics of a waxy residue in the filters... I guess that got under Franks skin too, as we see he's gone back to the drawing board and upgraded the formulation. Frank has also revised the insructions, due to member feedback.

All in all, I see the feedback - both pro and con - to have helped Autorx become a better and more user friendly product. Someday Autorx will probably be much more widely available, and I see all the feedback on autorx here at Bob's site to be the best thing to happen for Autorx, and all of us who've come to know Autorx as the quality product it is... Steve


My background is in from another field of Auto-Rx type chemistry application. The machinery treated with this chemistry is composed of "Ferrous Metal" and post copied here is correct. Truthfully I never made the connection as to why stains are not being removed from certain engines. Thanks Steve
Toyota Steve
Junior Member
Member # 1791

posted September 11, 2003 09:24 PM
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Drew - your dipstick is steel. I have come to find that Autorx cleans all metals, but does better at removing varnish color from the cast iron and steel parts than it does from the aluminum. It must have something to do with the porosity of aluminum, and the ease with which aluminum varnishes. Because your dipstick is ferrous metal, like your block, crank and rods, it REALLY cleans up well with autorx. steve
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Posts: 23 | From: florida | Registered: Jul 2003 | IP: Logged |
e: Auto-rx as a varnish cleaner
Frank Offline


Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 2164
Loc: Jacksonville Beach Fl
Auto-Rx will clean varnish off of cast iron most
metals during application process. Aluminum is the exception eventually it will come clean however not during the Auto-Rx application. Varnish is a cosmetic issue and does nothing to performance level.

If your engine is made out of ALUMINUM don't expect auto-rx to clean it up, you will be better off using a cheaper product called Marvel Mystery Oil which actually works better.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forum...0611283125102.html?4


Auto-Rx is not a solvent but similar to fat based soaps. It's kind of like putting soap in your oil!!



This product will not work on plasticized oil sludge that is similar to what your plastic gasoline containers are made from!!

That kind of sludge is the worst kind!!

http://members.cox.net/ambox/audi_sludge/


This engine needs to be scrapped. It's beyond Auto-rx or MMO. However,you could go through several gallons of MMO and 100 oil filters and hope it works!!

Two quotes don't make a right.