http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...1796207&#Post1796207
New Ultra looks really good. Still overkill for most cars on the road, but a nice high end offering.
Original Post
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Too bad they still only warranty it for 4,000 miles and 4 months like the rest of their product line. That puts their top of the line at least 3500 miles and 2 months behind AMSOIL's lowest level oil less expensive oil. Not impressed.
http://www.jobbersworld.com/JWFeb262010.htm
The oil was field tested well beyond 15,000 miles, but Shell is not backing it.
Going to be interesting to see how well it does.
The oil was field tested well beyond 15,000 miles, but Shell is not backing it.
quote:"Although it all sounds impressive and JobbersWorld was certainly intrigued by what appears to be a very compelling story about helping to keep engines "factory clean," you can be sure we asked some questions. The first is whether or not Pennzoil Ultra is blended with Group III base stocks or PAO (Group IV)? According to Dr. Sutherland, whereas some of the Pennzoil Ultra grades are blended with some PAO, Group III base oil is the primary type used, given their superior solvency for the product's cleansing capabilities as compared to PAO. He added, however, that the type of base stock in use is selected to aid the formulator in achieving the desired product performance.
The next question JW asked focused on the detergent additive composition of Hyper Cleansing TechnologyTM. Specifically we asked if the detergent additive is based on such existing technologies as calcium and magnesium sulfonate, salicylate, or phenate? To this, Shell only said, "it's a new and unique, proprietary technology exclusive to Shell and unlike what we have seen before."Interesting to say the least.
Then we asked about cannibalization. JobbersWorld's research uncovered that the retail price of Pennzoil Ultra will be very close to that of other synthetics, it seemed to us that Pennzoil runs the risk of cannibalizing its Pennzoil Platinum® sales (for little to no added margin) by splitting the synthetic category. Pennzoil, however, feels "just the opposite will happen." Instead of cannibalizing the synthetic category, Ultra will effectively pull conventional and synthetic blend buyers up the quality continuum to synthetics and Pennzoil's Ultra.
Whereas only time will tell how this plays out, Pennzoil Ultra is already in warehouses and ready to go. In fact, on the day you read this article, Shell says the new Pennzoil Ultra 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30 viscosities will be available in major automotive retailers nationwide. In addition, Pennzoil Ultra 5W-40 and 10W-60 viscosities can be found at retailers and select installers servicing mostly European cars, or through Ferrari US dealerships."
Going to be interesting to see how well it does.
quote:"We are backing it with a 500,000 mile, 15-year Lubrication Limited Warranty."
Big deal. You have to change this expensive oil every 4,000 miles/4 months AND at a service center that features Pennzoil to qualify. Plus you have to have less than 48,000 thousand miles and have been manufactured within the last 48 months and only covers 15 parts. So you would spend about $7500 to warranty 15 parts! No thanks. AMSOIL has none of those stipulations.quote:Originally posted by Buster:quote:"We are backing it with a 500,000 mile, 15-year Lubrication Limited Warranty."
This oil is very impressive on paper. Time will tell how well it does.
API SN, HTO-06, Tbn -13.....among other specs.
I would have thought they would go after M1 EP/Edge. Guess not. That might be their downfall.
For $6.97qt, it's going to be tough to beat all things considered. Whether it sells or not remains to be seen.
API SN, HTO-06, Tbn -13.....among other specs.
I would have thought they would go after M1 EP/Edge. Guess not. That might be their downfall.
For $6.97qt, it's going to be tough to beat all things considered. Whether it sells or not remains to be seen.
With their poor warranty, AMSOIL's bottom XL line already beats it. I can pick that up at any AMSOIL warehouse at $4.95 a quart.quote:Originally posted by Buster:
This oil is very impressive on paper. Time will tell how well it does.
API SN, HTO-06, Tbn -13.....among other specs.
I would have thought they would go after M1 EP/Edge. Guess not. That might be their downfall.
For $6.97qt, it's going to be tough to beat all things considered. Whether it sells or not remains to be seen.
XL meets Honda HTO-06, GM 4718M, API SN and has a Tbn of 13?
XL are very good oils though.
XL doesn't meet Honda HTO-06 and GM 4718M, but AMSOIL has other oils that do for that very small percentage of cars that require it and for 6 to 8 times the warranted mileage. No one requires API SN, and TBN isn't really important since they only warranty it for 4,000 miles/4 months.quote:Originally posted by Buster:
XL meets Honda HTO-06, GM 4718M, API SN and has a Tbn of 13?
I guess I decided to switch from Pennzoil conventional to M1 just before the hype broke. Maybe between it and Kendall's push, deals on M1 will be easier to find.
I predict Ultra will be a big flop for Shell. The reason they came out with Ultra is because Platinum just did not sell. Dont belive all the hype on another site , Pennzoil synthetics just dont sell. Mobil is #1 Valvoline is #2 Castrol is #3 in full synthetic sales.
Yeah it wouldn't surprise me if it flopped. Time will tell. Definitely looks like a stout oil.
HI Buster : I dont belive the TBN of Ultra is 13, if you look at the additive pack I would say Ultra is a TBN of 9 or 10. I dont trust Blackstone and their wacky TBN reports.
quote:Originally posted by zddp77:
I predict Ultra will be a big flop for Shell. The reason they came out with Ultra is because Platinum just did not sell. Dont belive all the hype on another site , Pennzoil synthetics just dont sell. Mobil is #1 Valvoline is #2 Castrol is #3 in full synthetic sales.
I don't agree ..sorta. Platinum sells well at a decent discount to M1. It doesn't sell well when not decently discounted below M1. I've seen it since the stuff came out. It meets market resistance about $0.50-$1.50 below M1. It reaches market support just above higher priced conventional oils. They've never been able to break this cycle.
Ultra, imho, is sorta like what Havoline did with Deposit Shield. They were getting no increases in market share by discounting their conventional oil. So they did a natural and required competitive evolution and did some advertising/marketing wizbang thing and increased the price at least 50%.
There's no need for two synthetic offerings from PZ ..but due to the pigeonhole'ing that Platinum is in, they're not going to make any money if they just throw on a new API cert and add a few more licenses. It needs a completely different product offering.
That's my opinion ..FWIW <shrug>
Yeah i think you're right GeeAea.
Essentially I see it as trying to horn in on M1's market share. They've surely got a very big chunk. Probably the biggest chunk.
It's late and I'm tired.
Where are you finding info on the make up of this oil?
Where are you finding info on the make up of this oil?
I wouldn't go that far. He never said he was an expert. He just said he had a contact at Shell and even openly admitted that it doesn't mean much.
Shell is pretty desperate. They are laying off 5,000 employees. They slightly improve an oil and have to use words like Ultra and Hyper to sell it. Maybe this type of marketing will work for them. I hope so. Pretty sad...
Buster no way Ultra meets dexos 1 the testing isn't even close too being completed for this GM spec. If Pennzoil says Ultra meets dexos 1 they are lying like crazy.
quote:Originally posted by zddp77:
Buster no way Ultra meets dexos 1 the testing isn't even close too being completed for this GM spec. If Pennzoil says Ultra meets dexos 1 they are lying like crazy.
Yeah maybe.
more koolaid
quote:Originally posted by zddp77:
Buster that guy on BITOG hasn't worked for Shell in over 5 years. He didn't know a thing about Ultra until a guy in Alaska spotted this oil in a Walmart and posted on the site. He's out of touch and is not a reliable source of information. Dont be so gullible their are no experts on BITOG.
Totally agree....he talks like he is a current high level employee and speaks for the company when in reality he is out of touch and knows little to nothing about current business at Shell Oil- for all we know, he is a retired janitor for pennzoil!
My opinion of PU is the marketing is working well. People were praising the oil based on spec sheets and advertising hype! The oil was being recommended while it was sitting in the stock room of Walmart, as being the greatest oil ever. I'd like to see some real world reports a year from now before I start stock piling it, and telling people how great it is.
Until then it is just a new offering from Pennzoil, and the marketing dept should be given a bonus for convincing people how great the oil is. Then having people who never seen it, let alone use it, recommend it before they could even buy it! Nice job Pennzoil!
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Until then it is just a new offering from Pennzoil, and the marketing dept should be given a bonus for convincing people how great the oil is. Then having people who never seen it, let alone use it, recommend it before they could even buy it! Nice job Pennzoil!
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+1 Johnny is a good guy! He knows a thing or 2 about oil! But my feelings about PU remain the same.
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I am using Pennzoil Platinum in my vehicles and it works great. I use Yellow bottle in some of my OPE, again, works great. Ultra to me is a bit over priced. Although a UOA of Ultra after almost 8K miles has been posted at BITOG and the TBN is over 5! Should be good for at least 10K.
I am happy with Platinum at 5K intervals minimum.
Dave
I am happy with Platinum at 5K intervals minimum.
Dave
There is no doubt that Pennzoil Ultra is a great oil, but I really think Pennzoil missed the boat with this oil. I think they would have been better served to just reformulate the Pennzoil Platinum into what is now Pennzoil Ultra. When I look at the VOA's on Pennzoil Ultra and Pennzoil Platinum it just seems that the Pennzoil Ultra has more Boron than the Platinum.
I was over at Wal-Mart today and the Pennzoil Ultra shelf was full while the Pennzoil Platinum shelves were half empty. I peeked into the back room where they keep there extra oil and there was no Pennzoil Ultra back there. I talked with one of the ladies who was stocking some oil on the shelves and she told me that the Pennzoil Ultra was not selling very well.
A 5 quart jug of Pennzoil Ultra is $28.00 while a 5 quart jug of Pennzoil Platinum is $20.50
I just do not see Pennzoil Ultra being worth $8.00 more for a 5 quart jug of oil.
I was over at Wal-Mart today and the Pennzoil Ultra shelf was full while the Pennzoil Platinum shelves were half empty. I peeked into the back room where they keep there extra oil and there was no Pennzoil Ultra back there. I talked with one of the ladies who was stocking some oil on the shelves and she told me that the Pennzoil Ultra was not selling very well.
A 5 quart jug of Pennzoil Ultra is $28.00 while a 5 quart jug of Pennzoil Platinum is $20.50
I just do not see Pennzoil Ultra being worth $8.00 more for a 5 quart jug of oil.
quote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I am using Pennzoil Platinum in my vehicles and it works great. I use Yellow bottle in some of my OPE, again, works great. Ultra to me is a bit over priced. Although a UOA of Ultra after almost 8K miles has been posted at BITOG and the TBN is over 5! Should be good for at least 10K.
I am happy with Platinum at 5K intervals minimum.
Dave
I'd guess the UOA would be good. That is a lot of driving in a very short period of time, and probably lots of highway, or engine at full operating temp operation. The TBN retention is pretty impressive though. I'd give it a good year and several UOA reports before I crown it KING.
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quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I am using Pennzoil Platinum in my vehicles and it works great. I use Yellow bottle in some of my OPE, again, works great. Ultra to me is a bit over priced. Although a UOA of Ultra after almost 8K miles has been posted at BITOG and the TBN is over 5! Should be good for at least 10K.
I am happy with Platinum at 5K intervals minimum.
Dave
I'd guess the UOA would be good. That is a lot of driving in a very short period of time, and probably lots of highway, or engine at full operating temp operation. The TBN retention is pretty impressive though. I'd give it a good year and several UOA reports before I crown it KING.
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I too am going to wait a while and see what others UOA's are going to be like. Platinum is proven. This OCI, I am going to go back to PYB, as they have added more boron to the mix, and it is quite a bit cheaper. PYB and a P1 filter should be good for 5K on my Titan.
Dave
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
There is no doubt that Pennzoil Ultra is a great oil, but I really think Pennzoil missed the boat with this oil. I think they would have been better served to just reformulate the Pennzoil Platinum into what is now Pennzoil Ultra. When I look at the VOA's on Pennzoil Ultra and Pennzoil Platinum it just seems that the Pennzoil Ultra has more Boron than the Platinum.
I was over at Wal-Mart today and the Pennzoil Ultra shelf was full while the Pennzoil Platinum shelves were half empty. I peeked into the back room where they keep there extra oil and there was no Pennzoil Ultra back there. I talked with one of the ladies who was stocking some oil on the shelves and she told me that the Pennzoil Ultra was not selling very well.
A 5 quart jug of Pennzoil Ultra is $28.00 while a 5 quart jug of Pennzoil Platinum is $20.50
I just do not see Pennzoil Ultra being worth $8.00 more for a 5 quart jug of oil.
Big Bear: Pennzoil has added more boron to Yellow Bottle also. I ran Platinum for a cleaning, but I think I am going back to Yellow for a while. 5 quarts for 11.00 at Wally's is not bad, considering my Titan takes 6.5 quarts.
Dave
Well, I was out of town last week and found some M1 0W-30.
quote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
There is no doubt that Pennzoil Ultra is a great oil, but I really think Pennzoil missed the boat with this oil. I think they would have been better served to just reformulate the Pennzoil Platinum into what is now Pennzoil Ultra. When I look at the VOA's on Pennzoil Ultra and Pennzoil Platinum it just seems that the Pennzoil Ultra has more Boron than the Platinum.
I was over at Wal-Mart today and the Pennzoil Ultra shelf was full while the Pennzoil Platinum shelves were half empty. I peeked into the back room where they keep there extra oil and there was no Pennzoil Ultra back there. I talked with one of the ladies who was stocking some oil on the shelves and she told me that the Pennzoil Ultra was not selling very well.
A 5 quart jug of Pennzoil Ultra is $28.00 while a 5 quart jug of Pennzoil Platinum is $20.50
I just do not see Pennzoil Ultra being worth $8.00 more for a 5 quart jug of oil.
Big Bear: Pennzoil has added more boron to Yellow Bottle also. I ran Platinum for a cleaning, but I think I am going back to Yellow for a while. 5 quarts for 11.00 at Wally's is not bad, considering my Titan takes 6.5 quarts.
Dave
Dave, thanks for the info on the PYB, I did not know that they added more Boron to their Yellow Bottle.
Is the Boron a cleaner or an anti-wear additive.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
There is no doubt that Pennzoil Ultra is a great oil, but I really think Pennzoil missed the boat with this oil. I think they would have been better served to just reformulate the Pennzoil Platinum into what is now Pennzoil Ultra. When I look at the VOA's on Pennzoil Ultra and Pennzoil Platinum it just seems that the Pennzoil Ultra has more Boron than the Platinum.
I was over at Wal-Mart today and the Pennzoil Ultra shelf was full while the Pennzoil Platinum shelves were half empty. I peeked into the back room where they keep there extra oil and there was no Pennzoil Ultra back there. I talked with one of the ladies who was stocking some oil on the shelves and she told me that the Pennzoil Ultra was not selling very well.
A 5 quart jug of Pennzoil Ultra is $28.00 while a 5 quart jug of Pennzoil Platinum is $20.50
I just do not see Pennzoil Ultra being worth $8.00 more for a 5 quart jug of oil.
Big Bear: Pennzoil has added more boron to Yellow Bottle also. I ran Platinum for a cleaning, but I think I am going back to Yellow for a while. 5 quarts for 11.00 at Wally's is not bad, considering my Titan takes 6.5 quarts.
Dave
Dave, thanks for the info on the PYB, I did not know that they added more Boron to their Yellow Bottle.
Is the Boron a cleaner or an anti-wear additive.
I found out about it on Bitog. Here is the thread. Apparently SOPUS has boosted up the specs on PYB.
Link
I believe the boron is more of a detergent in PYB, than an anti-wear. I think Ultra will have to come down in price. Platinum is already good for 10K intervals, and PYB can be pushed to 7K in some vehicles. Yellow has been around a long time and has a good track record for 5K OCI people like me.
Dave
