In a search of the SynLube website, I am unable to find any qualification to the SynLube guarantee that the oil must be babied by restricting the use of a vehicle to ideal types of mileage. Thus I am of the opinion that SynLube is just as applicable to the little old lady who just drives to Church on Sunday as it is to the high mileage driver. This is a key part of SynLube's value.
Also, if TBN is a question in a person's mind, SynLube will sell anyone who wants it, several ounces of the necessary chemical to raise the TBN to the required level.
Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity
Houckster,
The Q&A suggested OCI for styles of driving but recommended 50k or 5 years.
With other posts about the potential longer life of regular oil, oil suppliers do not have control over filters apart from on new cars, and oil fiters have been a weak link in the extended OCI.
There is also public demand for cheap oil that can be changed every 3k miles and so oil companies build to spec required, and only when a car mft requests a longer OCI do the oil companies fulfill the need, the exception being Amsoil.
Leaving aside the solids issue, what is different about Synlube compared to other synths, or could these be run for an equally long period if there was a Public demand.
Interesting thread on BITOG re Racing oil and Auto rx being the ultimate and expensive oil.
The Q&A suggested OCI for styles of driving but recommended 50k or 5 years.
With other posts about the potential longer life of regular oil, oil suppliers do not have control over filters apart from on new cars, and oil fiters have been a weak link in the extended OCI.
There is also public demand for cheap oil that can be changed every 3k miles and so oil companies build to spec required, and only when a car mft requests a longer OCI do the oil companies fulfill the need, the exception being Amsoil.
Leaving aside the solids issue, what is different about Synlube compared to other synths, or could these be run for an equally long period if there was a Public demand.
Interesting thread on BITOG re Racing oil and Auto rx being the ultimate and expensive oil.
The Q&A recommended that an oil change inverval of 50,000 miles for the absolute longest wear from an engine but this is usually unnecessary in most cases. The 150,000 mile/3K engine hour mile interval is usually fine for most people since other parts of the car will start failing well before the engine does. Remember that the company offers a 300K mile warranty for engines equipped with SynLube since new. This warranty holds for the 150K mile intervals.
SynLube supplies oil filters that are of sufficient quality to last for the term of service they advise. This will vary with the car. I believe that currently, they are offering the upper level Fleetguard filters plus upper level GM filters that are designed with far better components than are usually available from auto parts stores.
I am using a CM filter that is rebuildable and filters down to 8 microns. It's flow capacity is so high that it doesn't even have a bypass valve. I believe I have discussed them and provided a link.
Beyond the solids, the advantage of SynLube is the inert qualities of the formula components. With this oil, problems like acidity are avoided in the first place. Dino oils that will form acids due to the interaction with contaminants introduced to the oil through poor sealing at the rings. Consequently, they need a high reserve TBN. This is the reason for the Cummins spec. When the reactivity of the oil is avoided, Cummins engines, I'm told, work fine with SynLube.
Another standout feature of SynLube is the additive package. At the price SynLube sells for, the additives (some of which are actually not necessary but are there for standards purposes) are of the best quality. The higher quality additives often tend to take up less of the total volume of the product. This is important as some of the additives have no lubricating properties in themselves and are there only to protect the oil from its environment. Dino oils often have up to 20% of their volume dedicated to additives.
In contrast, oils like Mobil 1 don't have the best additive package. Since the base oil is so much more expensive than virgin dino, the only way the Mobil 1 folks can compete is to cut back on the additive package.
SynLube supplies oil filters that are of sufficient quality to last for the term of service they advise. This will vary with the car. I believe that currently, they are offering the upper level Fleetguard filters plus upper level GM filters that are designed with far better components than are usually available from auto parts stores.
I am using a CM filter that is rebuildable and filters down to 8 microns. It's flow capacity is so high that it doesn't even have a bypass valve. I believe I have discussed them and provided a link.
Beyond the solids, the advantage of SynLube is the inert qualities of the formula components. With this oil, problems like acidity are avoided in the first place. Dino oils that will form acids due to the interaction with contaminants introduced to the oil through poor sealing at the rings. Consequently, they need a high reserve TBN. This is the reason for the Cummins spec. When the reactivity of the oil is avoided, Cummins engines, I'm told, work fine with SynLube.
Another standout feature of SynLube is the additive package. At the price SynLube sells for, the additives (some of which are actually not necessary but are there for standards purposes) are of the best quality. The higher quality additives often tend to take up less of the total volume of the product. This is important as some of the additives have no lubricating properties in themselves and are there only to protect the oil from its environment. Dino oils often have up to 20% of their volume dedicated to additives.
In contrast, oils like Mobil 1 don't have the best additive package. Since the base oil is so much more expensive than virgin dino, the only way the Mobil 1 folks can compete is to cut back on the additive package.
In contrast, oils like Mobil 1 don't have the best additive package. Since the base oil is so much more expensive than virgin dino, the only way the Mobil 1 folks can compete is to cut back on the additive package.
Any evidence that this is the case?
300K mile warranty for engines equipped with SynLube since new.
Which engines are these?
Synlube constantly compare product to a dino.
recommended that an oil change inverval of 50,000 miles for the absolute longest wear from an engine but this is usually unnecessary in most cases
Are not all Uaual recommended OCI based on absolute longest wear?
On assumption that Redline etc use the best possible esters - why can Synlube obtain a product 5x10 times better
Any evidence that this is the case?
300K mile warranty for engines equipped with SynLube since new.
Which engines are these?
Synlube constantly compare product to a dino.
recommended that an oil change inverval of 50,000 miles for the absolute longest wear from an engine but this is usually unnecessary in most cases
Are not all Uaual recommended OCI based on absolute longest wear?
On assumption that Redline etc use the best possible esters - why can Synlube obtain a product 5x10 times better
quote:
At the price SynLube sells for, the additives (some of which are actually not necessary but are there for standards purposes) are of the best quality.
Please prove that by data.
Callisa: As you know, the exact contents of the formula are proprietary so I don't know. The comments come from the SynLube website.
quote:Any evidence that this is the case?
In contrast, oils like Mobil 1 don't have the best additive package. Since the base oil is so much more expensive than virgin dino, the only way the Mobil 1 folks can compete is to cut back on the additive package.
ANSWER: I have seen some tests by Amsoil which indicate that their lubricant is better on the wear tests, especially when talking about Mobil 1 0W30. Also, Mobil 1 recommends adhering to the OEM OCI recommendations so in their view, since Mobil 1 is not promoted as a long interval change oil, they would rather sell at a lower price to be at least marginally competitive with the dino oils.
quote:
300K mile warranty for engines equipped with SynLube since new.
Which engines are these?
ANSWER: SynLube makes no qualification on this. Any engine should qualify.
Synlube constantly compare product to a dino. ANSWER: Yes. Dino oil is 95% of the market so that's the most relevant comparison. The website is primarily directed at average people investigating this product.
quote:Are not all Uaual (???)recommended OCI based on absolute longest wear?
Recommended that an oil change inverval of 50,000 miles for the absolute longest wear from an engine but this is usually unnecessary in most cases.
ANSWER: No, car manufacturers have no interest in us driving OUR cars for 300K miles. They specify an oil that will give reliable service for a suitable amount of time which I believe to be somewhere in the area of 100,000 miles. After that they'd like to see you in the showroom real soon. The lighter weight oils (0W20, 5W20), in my opinion are examples of another attempt to shorten engine life. Most engines were never designed for these oils. Ford, for example has only 2 engines designed for thinner oils. The rest of their engines had 5W30 recommended for them just a few years ago.
On assumption that Redline etc use the best possible esters - why can Synlube obtain a product 5x10 times better.
ANSWER: Since both formulas are proprietary it is hard to draw comparisons but look at the marketing of the oils. SynLube emphasizes long use intervals while Redline emphasizes racing where long change intervals are not a consideration.
I agree with light weight oil comments although HTHS is importent re wear, but the following re MB indicates this but 0W40 M1 is top product for say 25-30k mile 2yr OCI, which indicates additive package is up to scratch for top class machinery including SLR-McLaren
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html
recommended OCI based are still based on absolute longest wear, although the oil choice may be influenced by fuel economy?
Although most oil companies do not directly advertise their base those promoting top quality oils emphasise the base oil usually esters. The benefits of using esters are at the extremes as as expensive not used in any quantity for road oils. However they can be used instead of mineral oil as additive carriers. The claims by Synlube ignore this aspect and hide behind "formula are proprietary " with regard to base oils since they do not need to disclose exact mix, this is somewhat perplexing compared to Redline who are open about this matter to develope niche market.
A warranty based on very few cars having Synlube as first fill can easily be made.
http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html
recommended OCI based are still based on absolute longest wear, although the oil choice may be influenced by fuel economy?
Although most oil companies do not directly advertise their base those promoting top quality oils emphasise the base oil usually esters. The benefits of using esters are at the extremes as as expensive not used in any quantity for road oils. However they can be used instead of mineral oil as additive carriers. The claims by Synlube ignore this aspect and hide behind "formula are proprietary " with regard to base oils since they do not need to disclose exact mix, this is somewhat perplexing compared to Redline who are open about this matter to develope niche market.
A warranty based on very few cars having Synlube as first fill can easily be made.
Re: The link for Mobil 1 0W40 you mention is for a "European formula" which is very likely different that what we can get here since Europe's standards are higher than ours. The Amsoil comparison was for the 0W30 oil we can buy.
As far as OCI intervals, I remain convinced that OEM recommendations do not envisage the longest possible engine life.
Would you please redo this paragraph? I am not sure what it means. Thank you.
As far as OCI intervals, I remain convinced that OEM recommendations do not envisage the longest possible engine life.
quote:
Although most oil companies do not directly advertise their base those promoting top quality oils emphasise the base oil usually esters. The benefits of using esters are at the extremes as as expensive not used in any quantity for road oils. However they can be used instead of mineral oil as additive carriers. The claims by Synlube ignore this aspect and hide behind "formula are proprietary " with regard to base oils since they do not need to disclose exact mix, this is somewhat perplexing compared to Redline who are open about this matter to develope niche market.
Would you please redo this paragraph? I am not sure what it means. Thank you.
Houckster, I would use Dyson Analysis to interpret the data from whatever lab you decide to gather the Synlube raw data from.
Terry Dyson has consulted with Miro and interpreted data supplied by Synlube in the past.
Terry Dyson has consulted with Miro and interpreted data supplied by Synlube in the past.
Thank you for the information about Dyson Analysis.
Any feedback from Terry Dyson as that would add to credibility.
My comment above is that Redline are open about what they use and why its better in general, wheras with Synlube its secret and not disclosed
and you need to believe in its mystical power of 5 synthetics.
My comment above is that Redline are open about what they use and why its better in general, wheras with Synlube its secret and not disclosed
and you need to believe in its mystical power of 5 synthetics.
Houckster
First time I've noticed solids used in convential oil other than Synlube.
----
Elf Molygraphite 10W30 Engine Oil (3 litres)
270638
Exclusive lubrication technology from Elf... incorporating solid lubricants of graphite and molybdenum disulphite. Available in 3 litre pack.
Key Features
Viscosity rating of 10W30.
Provide excellent thermal and oxidation stability.
Reinforced with dispersing and detergent properties.
Superior anti-wear properties.
High shear stability ... providing optimum lubrication at low and high temperature.
Suitable for all gasoline/petrol engine from 600 cc.
Benefits
Noticeable decrease in wear and tear due to cold start, especially in the morning.
Better lubrication at all times increases engine efficiency, better fuel consumption.
Maintain engine in silent operating condition.
Added protection from graphite and molybdenum provide better protection and increase reliability of moving parts.
Keeps engine in clean under all operating conditions.API: SJ
First time I've noticed solids used in convential oil other than Synlube.
----
Elf Molygraphite 10W30 Engine Oil (3 litres)
270638
Exclusive lubrication technology from Elf... incorporating solid lubricants of graphite and molybdenum disulphite. Available in 3 litre pack.
Key Features
Viscosity rating of 10W30.
Provide excellent thermal and oxidation stability.
Reinforced with dispersing and detergent properties.
Superior anti-wear properties.
High shear stability ... providing optimum lubrication at low and high temperature.
Suitable for all gasoline/petrol engine from 600 cc.
Benefits
Noticeable decrease in wear and tear due to cold start, especially in the morning.
Better lubrication at all times increases engine efficiency, better fuel consumption.
Maintain engine in silent operating condition.
Added protection from graphite and molybdenum provide better protection and increase reliability of moving parts.
Keeps engine in clean under all operating conditions.API: SJ
These API spec of SJ indicates the oil must be an older formula.
Houckster,
The Market for this oil is Malaysia
The Market for this oil is Malaysia
I have just checked my oil level very carefully and the oil consumption is at a rate of 61K miles per quart. At present, I have almost 9300 miles on the SynLube 5W50.
61 K miles for 1 quart of oil. That is an extreme low oil consumption. It may sound strange, but to have a little oil consumption between 0,05-0,08 L/1000 km) is according to my experience best for your piston rings. Having lower oil consumption then that leads to a build up of hard, shiny coal in the piston ring groove. This shiny coal is the nightmare of a piston designer. It leads to cold stuck and later to hot stuck piston rings and to so called ring riding. The hard coal grows behind the piston ring, leading to increased piston ring wear. This coal is so hard, that you can't remove it even with a screwdriver.
It consists of Calcium / Magnesium salts coming from the additive package.
It consists of Calcium / Magnesium salts coming from the additive package.
High quality synth oils are shear stable and the HTHS for a 20 redline is as good as a 50.
Any HTHS for Synlube?
Any HTHS for Synlube?
Per Callisa:
quote:Because the SynLube formula is proprietary, we don't know if calcium and magnesium are in the formula in the first place. Since SynLube is designed for ultralong usage intervals, additives that have these problems are probably not in it. I think it is a mistake to assume the characteristics of an additive package for a motor oil costing $1-2 with the characteristics of SynLube costing $32. Such a problem as you describe would certainly have run the company out of business since they have a guarantee on the engine for any oil-related failures lasting up to 300K miles.
. . . hard coal grows behind the piston ring, leading to increased piston ring wear. This coal is so hard, that you can't remove it even with a screwdriver. It consists of Calcium/Magnesium salts coming from the additive package.
The HTHS for SynLube is 5.0cP. The HTHS for normal car motor oils is about 2.7 and the heavy duty trucking industry requires an HTHS of 3.5.
The shear stability of an oil is a function of the quality of the additive package so far as I understand the term, not a function of the viscosity.
The shear stability of an oil is a function of the quality of the additive package so far as I understand the term, not a function of the viscosity.