ZMAX

I'm reviewing a bunch of tech data now.

Give me a few days.

thankyou robert for not jumping to conclusions and bad mouthing without investigating...

Same as AVBLEND and FAA aproved. No other product can say that I believe..

quote:

Originally posted by RobertC:
I'm reviewing a bunch of tech data now.

Give me a few days.

I'd be interested in your report. It passed phase 1 for me, the shill test. I read some comments from a long time respected member on Bitog, and they were favorable. So my mind is open.

AD

thanks for your service!!! combat vet here nam....at the nhra track we coat the pistons with zmax with some assembly lube and then pour in a bottle....really makes a hugh difference..avblend and zmax the same accept avblend for aviation..faa approved..zmax is in my engine's and tranny's..

Glad I can serve this great country! Thank you for your service as well!

What exactly does Zmax do when added to fuel? Is it a cleaner/UCL, or a cleaner only? How often is it added?

It was the oil additive I think they were talking about on Bitog. I can't get onto the site now. I think in the oil it is a friction reducer and AW additive. Not so much a cleaner? I have to read up on it again. Thanks!

AD

zmax explained it too me yesterday fuel additive.he says its all the same..pour 12 oz in fuel tank make sure full tank it will soak into all metals and injectors keep everything clean...all this info is on the site explains it better then me..zmax is new to me too..the oils i use is redline and motul mixture in all my vehicles

Thank you Sir! Do you plan on adding it to the oil too?

AD

i added it to oil,tranny, will do fuel sometime. with every fill up, i add 2oz redline's complete fuel system cleaner...

Absolute snake oil dont waste your money.... beware of posters on that other site who have hidden agenda's.

And what would the hidden agenda be?

quote:

Originally posted by zddp77:
Absolute snake oil dont waste your money.... beware of posters on that other site who have hidden agenda's.

Swill,....er, Scam.....er, Shill.....er, synlube isn't being pushed there. So they came here to try.

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:

quote:

Originally posted by zddp77:
Absolute snake oil dont waste your money.... beware of posters on that other site who have hidden agenda's.

Swill,....er, Scam.....er, Shill.....er, synlube isn't being pushed there. So they came here to try.

Think again,Trajan.......regarding your last remark about a certain......non-petroleum lubricant used by this truck.


http://www.prweb.com/releases/...uck/prweb4733104.htm

http://www.bremach.it/

So to get this stright, you buy a bottle of additive that costs maybe 15 bucks and it coats all the metal parts it comes in contact with and makes them close to wear proof. Why don't engine or car makers do that from the get go? Don't they provide those wonderfull 100k powertrain warrenties? Couldn't they buy tanker trucks of this stuff and apply it at the factory and further reduce their warrenty exposure? just wondering.....

A 12 oz size of zMax typically sells for $20. It's life expectancy is 6 months or 6,000 miles. Which ever comes first, presumably.

quote:

Originally posted by rgf12:
So to get this stright, you buy a bottle of additive that costs maybe 15 bucks and it coats all the metal parts it comes in contact with and makes them close to wear proof. Why don't engine or car makers do that from the get go? Don't they provide those wonderfull 100k powertrain warrenties? Couldn't they buy tanker trucks of this stuff and apply it at the factory and further reduce their warrenty exposure? just wondering.....

Why should they! When have they! Will they ever! Do they need to? Would you buy....tanker trucks of this stuff,or some other 'proprietary' additive if you were near broke like they were? NO!

The automakers want you buy their new cars........not tanker trucks of a chlorine based additive(chlorine ion). The automakers only buy lubricanst that are off the shelf and complete. They do not endorse, nor will they ever endorse supplemental additives..........it's even in the owners manuals.

Zmax is a chlorine ion? I'll pass, chlorine is corrosive to metal, why add it to oil? That's if it contains chlorine, are you sure Kirk?

AD

It doesn't have chlorine. It's the same stuff that's used in aircraft engines. It's called Avblend. Which is FFA approved.

It used by many pilots at the local airport near me. They swear by it.

Avblend and Zmax are the same from all that I've read.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=2044492&page=4

Cadillac recommends it.

Unlike scamlube, it has verified 3rd party testing. Sure, some will bring up the old FTC ruling, but they don't really read it, and they can't explain why it's still being sold.

And again, unlike scam....synlube, it's makers and users don't attack you if you question it.

And ask yourself one question, Do you really want to take the word of one who thinks sinlube is the greatest oil ever?

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:

quote:

Originally posted by zddp77:
Absolute snake oil dont waste your money.... beware of posters on that other site who have hidden agenda's.

Swill,....er, Scam.....er, Shill.....er, synlube isn't being pushed there. So they came here to try.

Think again,Trajan.......regarding your last remark about a certain......non-petroleum lubricant used by this truck.


http://www.prweb.com/releases/...uck/prweb4733104.htm

http://www.bremach.it/

Really? Don't see anything that says it does. I'd ask that you prove it, but you've yet to prove much of anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

quote:

Originally posted by rgf12:
So to get this stright, you buy a bottle of additive that costs maybe 15 bucks and it coats all the metal parts it comes in contact with and makes them close to wear proof. Why don't engine or car makers do that from the get go? Don't they provide those wonderfull 100k powertrain warrenties? Couldn't they buy tanker trucks of this stuff and apply it at the factory and further reduce their warrenty exposure? just wondering.....

Why should they! When have they! Will they ever! Do they need to? Would you buy....tanker trucks of this stuff,or some other 'proprietary' additive if you were near broke like they were? NO!

The automakers want you buy their new cars........not tanker trucks of a chlorine based additive(chlorine ion). The automakers only buy lubricanst that are off the shelf and complete. They do not endorse, nor will they ever endorse supplemental additives..........it's even in the owners manuals.

And yet, TSBs will say, for example, that if you don't use top tier fuel, you should run, say, Techron.

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:
It doesn't have chlorine. It's the same stuff that's used in aircraft engines. It's called Avblend. Which is FFA approved.

It used by many pilots at the local airport near me. They swear by it.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=2044492&page=4

Cadillac recommends it.

Unlike scamlube, it has verified 3rd party testing. Sure, some will bring up the old FTC ruling, but they don't really read it, and they can't explain why it's still being sold.

And again, unlike scam....synlube, it's makers and users don't attack you if you question it.

And ask yourself one question, Do you really want to take the word of one who thinks sinlube is the greatest oil ever?

I saw Kirk taking a poke, figured I'd ask. I've been reading a lot about it, and it seems a respected guy at Bitog is trying to keep the product alive and generate interest. It might be good, sure seems there is a lot of interest in the stuff.

It isn't cheap so if it doesn't live up to the expectations it will fall hard and be driven off the sites like some of the other garbage plugged on these sites.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:
It doesn't have chlorine. It's the same stuff that's used in aircraft engines. It's called Avblend. Which is FFA approved.

It used by many pilots at the local airport near me. They swear by it.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=2044492&page=4

Cadillac recommends it.

Unlike scamlube, it has verified 3rd party testing. Sure, some will bring up the old FTC ruling, but they don't really read it, and they can't explain why it's still being sold.

And again, unlike scam....synlube, it's makers and users don't attack you if you question it.

And ask yourself one question, Do you really want to take the word of one who thinks sinlube is the greatest oil ever?

I saw Kirk taking a poke, figured I'd ask. I've been reading a lot about it, and it seems a respected guy at Bitog is trying to keep the product alive and generate interest. It might be good, sure seems there is a lot of interest in the stuff.

It isn't cheap so if it doesn't live up to the expectations it will fall hard and be driven off the sites like some of the other garbage plugged on these sites.

AD

Right now the two pack is on sale at AAP. While one bottle says fuel and the other engine, the only difference is the color. So you can use both in the oil.

I bought three boxes. Ehhhh, I eat out once/day every day. So that's six days I won't. No biggie.

A few guys bought into it. Even at the AAP prices if it doesn't work they'll have a fire storm on their hands on these boards. If it does work, more people will buy into it. I'm on the sidelines, but if zMax gets some great press I'll pony up some cash and check it out myself.

AD

Maybe. Maybe not. It was derided at the other board constantly. Now it's getting a second look.

The pilots I know love AVBLEND, which is what Zmax is.

BMW doesn't endorse it. But there is a TSB that endorses Techron if you don't use Top Tier fuel.

And yes, their dealers sell it in 20oz bottles.

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sa...cleaner-techron.html

I'm pretty sure the stuff will work as a fuel additive. How good is it in the oil though?

AD

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
I'm pretty sure the stuff will work as a fuel additive. How good is it in the oil though?

AD

I can'r say due to lack of experience with it. The other place would be the place to ask.

I can say this. Don't sniff/be downwind of an opened bottle. Unless you can't sleep.

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
Zmax is a chlorine ion? I'll pass, chlorine is corrosive to metal, why add it to oil? That's if it contains chlorine, are you sure Kirk?

AD

My mistake Ad. I was thinking about the X-1R additive which does contain the ion.......yet it too............is endorsed by many. The x-1r techs claim it is not corrosive. Z-max claims to 'fill' in the microscopic pores in the metal substrate of bearing surfaces.

Over the years I have actually used both. None have ever quieted down a noisy used car engine the way moly does.

I did notice the x-1r many years ago improved an automatic transmission shifting issues in one of my cars. But in 10,000 miles....guess what?........flush the entire tranny and re-do all over again.

SO,how much money do y'all plan on spending on all these additives that may or may not work for a short while......maybe.

BTW.........JEEP NOW HAS 19K ON THE CLOCK,AND THE MUSTANG 33K. S-M-O-O-T-H SAILING WITH MY LUBE OF CHOICE.......and my bearing pores are well lubed for life like the above lubricant 'claims' to do,but with repeated/costly applications,that I don't have to.

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:

quote:

Originally posted by Trajan:
It doesn't have chlorine. It's the same stuff that's used in aircraft engines. It's called Avblend. Which is FFA approved.

It used by many pilots at the local airport near me. They swear by it.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=2044492&page=4

Cadillac recommends it.

Unlike scamlube, it has verified 3rd party testing. Sure, some will bring up the old FTC ruling, but they don't really read it, and they can't explain why it's still being sold.

And again, unlike scam....synlube, it's makers and users don't attack you if you question it.

And ask yourself one question, Do you really want to take the word of one who thinks sinlube is the greatest oil ever?

I saw Kirk taking a poke, figured I'd ask. I've been reading a lot about it, and it seems a respected guy at Bitog is trying to keep the product alive and generate interest. It might be good, sure seems there is a lot of interest in the stuff.

It isn't cheap so if it doesn't live up to the expectations it will fall hard and be driven off the sites like some of the other garbage plugged on these sites.

AD

Right now the two pack is on sale at AAP. While one bottle says fuel and the other engine, the only difference is the color. So you can use both in the oil.

I bought three boxes. Ehhhh, I eat out once/day every day. So that's six days I won't. No biggie.

Trajan.......your engine is already in need of a rebuild,so why not just stock up on your elixir and use it after the rebuild to hopefully avoid another rebuild.....at least in theory!

You do still have the oil burning bmw.......don't you?

Well,here is some good info.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1375035

http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist...10201comp0023256.pdf

http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist...30321stip0023256.pdf


Trajan quoted

quote:

I bought three boxes. Ehhhh, I eat out once/day every day. So that's six days I won't. No biggie.

Hey Trajan..........enjoy those tv dinners......

Maybe the stuff makes a good 'Martini'....

Their claims about soaking into metal and then leaching out leaves a lot to the imagination. Maybe for a fuel system cleaning you'd want something to penetrate and disolve. In oil I'd rather have something like good ole moly to coat the metal. Lubro-moly MoS2 comes to mind, its got quite a following and is cheap!

AD

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
Their claims about soaking into metal and then leaching out leaves a lot to the imagination. Maybe for a fuel system cleaning you'd want something to penetrate and disolve. In oil I'd rather have something like good ole moly to coat the metal. Lubro-moly MoS2 comes to mind, its got quite a following and is cheap!

AD

Well,according to this link info.....you may actually get a lot more bearing wear/corrosion using this additive.

This is a quote from the link below.

"According to the FTC, the CRC L38 test is a standard auto industry tool to measure the bearing corrosion protection properties of motor oils. In February/March 1997, an independent laboratory performed two CRC L38 tests of zMax for Speedway and Oil Chem. In those tests, motor oil treated with zMax produced more than twice as much bearing corrosion as motor oil alone. "


http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/02/zmax1.shtm


Use at your own risk is all I can say!

Another product I had my doubts about, and kept an open mind, now I'll pass.

AD

I just started a Zmax test in one of my engines. In about 8-9 weeks, I'll post a 7.5k used oil analysis. Should be interesting.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=2044492#Post2044492

It would pay to read the pdfs in that link. The first is the final ruling of the FTC. Pay close attention to the wording on pages 3 & 4 and read pages 19, 20, and 21.

Sorry kirk. They're in compliance with the FTC.

Use it or not, I don't care either way. But anecdotes don't change the fact that they are in compliance.

The second pdf is interesting. One of the tests is a Modified CRC L-38 - capable of measuring bearing, cylinder, piston and valve guide wear; horsepower; piston deposits; and oil deterioration.

Now I'm not an expert in chemistry, or metallurgy. But I do know this. Zmax is still making the claims the FTC looked into, and no gov't agency is going after them to stop it.

So this stuff has more credibility than synlube. Then again, that isn't much of an accomplishment.

Gotta go buy some more......

I should have said I'll pass on using it in the oil. It might have some value in the gas tank. I'll wait on UOA results to see if it has any negative impact on bearings, but I don't put much faith in a $25 oil test either.

There's always respected member testimony, and I don't see any shills pimping it yet so it passes that test!

AD

Yup.

For me, it's the information. Sure, a link gets posted about the FTC gunning for them. But what he failed to post was the ruling. Which I posted.

All the current info convinced me to try it. I put one in the gas, one in the oil. The rest will go into the oil every oci.

I'm not going to shill it. I'd rather people look at the data, like you're doing, and make up their own mind. Nor will I do any other synlibe antics.

Except to say that this isn't mixed in someone's basement located on some restricted acess DoE operated site.

What got these guys into trouble with the FTC about was using the test data in their advertising with the bit about accelerated bearing corrosion withheld. I have not seen anything about what bearing material was used in the tests. If this stuff is attacking a steel backed copper lead alloy bearing you dont want it. Even if the bearings in the tests are aluminum,its a bad sign that they are being attacked. As far as using it in the fuel tank goes,this may be the best application,but a very expensive one for what your getting. This stuff is plain mineral oil that has been sheered down until the molecules are small enough to penetrate porous metals. What protective benefit does this provide for the cost. Unless you need an aggressive wetting agent, you better pass on this one. And yes I have tried this one (before I found out about the deceptive adds) with no benefits at all.

I was thinking it might be an aggressive fuel system cleaner. Expensive though. I'm having a tough time with adding to an engine.

AD

There is a respected Tribologist [sp] on that board Bob Board that states the zMax numbers are statistically insignificant. Since the product is just about pure mineral oil, there are cheaper sources for the stuff as well.

Great debate going on, I'm still on the fence, and not in a position to bad mouth the stuff, but certainly have doubts about how good it would be in engine oil.

AD