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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I'd be interested in your report. I've read a few cases of some positive results, but the reviews are mixed at this point. I think zMax has more value in the gas than it would in the oil.

I heard Amsoil gear oils were good too. My buddy wasn't impressed after using ASM and SSO for a full year. There's good and bad in everything. I'm sure glad you're not trying to ram it down anyone's throat who doesn't have glowing reviews of the stuff. OOOPS off topic again.


AD


AD, forgot to mention that Zmax (AVBLEND) is approved by FAA. If it can work in a single engine airplane at 10K feet, should be good for my engine. At least if my engine seizes on the highway, I can dead stick it to the median. Don't know about 10K AGL and the engine goes kaput. Parachute time?

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
The FAA approval is big! My question is what will it do in the oil? And the cost every 6000 miles.........

Good to know about the Metal Protector.

AD


From what I have read, the FAA is for fuel use, not the oil use. I will have to research further for oil.

MP is great stuff for actions and barrels on firearms.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
The FAA approval is big! My question is what will it do in the oil? And the cost every 6000 miles.........

Good to know about the Metal Protector.

AD


AD Link AVblend FAA

That is for Oil sump usage.

I have no affiliation with Zmax or AVblend, It seems to be good stuff, from what I have read. I also don't believe in miracle products. I trust facts and proven products that hold up to their claims.


Dave
I like to read the boards and try to pick products that interest me and comments from people w/o an agenda, then go from there. When I see a product pushed by someone with an agenda I back off. Or if I see a product that is constantly defended I back off. Good products don't need resident shills to sell them, testimony from mulitiple sources sells good products! my .02$

When I see a product attacked in order to sell another product I back off too, as do many others.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I like to read the boards and try to pick products that interest me and comments from people w/o an agenda, then go from there. When I see a product pushed by someone with an agenda I back off. Or if I see a product that is constantly defended I back off. Good products don't need resident shills to sell them, testimony from mulitiple sources sells good products! my .02$

When I see a product attacked in order to sell another product I back off too, as do many others.


AD. I have no agenda or financial interest in any product on this board. There are people on boards that will say, "I pissed in my gas tank and I get 2 mpg more." That may be true in undocumented/unproven testimonials. I want my facts in paper. If FAA approved Zmax/AVBlend for aircraft, I have a good feeling it would be okay for a motor vehicle.

Dave
Thanks!!

I kind of think this is one of those products you have to use constantly to get any lasting benefit.

And let's face it, $19.99 is a bit much.

But in my case, a slight ping I had is gone. And the engine is smoother. Feels that way anyway.

It's all anecdotal, as I don't have sound recordings, or the kind of data I used to keep, (avg speed/mpg, tire pressure, whatever else Scangauge II gives me.).

If anyone wants to try it for themselves, i'd say wait for the next sale.

Obligatory synlube shot:
Still, it's cheaper than swindlelube, and carries more approvals.
Do they have a money back guarantee? If they do for that price if I didn't notice any improvements they'd get it back. One of the better tests of a company is how they handle their warranty claims when/if they guarantee satisfaction. I know of a few companies that go to great lengths not to back up their warranties and shift blame instead. They'll remain nameless.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Do they have a money back guarantee? If they do for that price if I didn't notice any improvements they'd get it back. One of the better tests of a company is how they handle their warranty claims when/if they guarantee satisfaction. I know of a few companies that go to great lengths not to back up their warranties and shift blame instead. They'll remain nameless.

AD


No guarantee that I know of.
[[QUOTE]Originally posted by ADFD1:
I know of a few companies that go to great lengths not to back up their warranties and shift blame instead. They'll remain nameless.

----------------------------------------------
Show me a warranty that wasn't written by a 'team' of lawyers.

Show me a warranty that opens up the company to any one willing to 'game' the company.

THEY ALL HAVE WELL WRITTEN WARRANTIES.........PEROID!


I have never been told.........."sir,you voided your warranty". I usually never have to use a warranty in the first place........including appliances. I almost never purchase warranty insurance,except once or twice really cheap,and still never used the warranty.

Who do you know..with proof,that blew up something using a particlar oil or additive that was then denied coverage because of the additive?
They'll remain nameless Kirk. A hint one of them is for cleaning engines. It has nothing to do with the major oil companies.

Does your company offer a warranty on Synlube? A handshake and your buddies word and the customer is GTG for the lifetime of his vehicle. Then he dumps the oil mails it back and gets his money back! Wow, only in American. Besides in your perfect world you don't need a warranty, not even on an appliance. Just buy it plug it in and if it doesn't work fresh out of the box you'll just buy another one! Good on you sir!

You guys @ Synlube probably spend more cash on the legal aspects of protecting your asses than delivering a quality product.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Does your company offer a warranty on Synlube? A handshake and your buddies word and the customer is GTG for the lifetime of his vehicle. Then he dumps the oil mails it back and gets his money back! Wow, only in American. Besides in your perfect world you don't need a warranty, not even on an appliance. Just buy it plug it in and if it doesn't work fresh out of the box you'll just buy another one! Good on you sir!

AD

Oh come on. Kirk's been using Synlube on all his stuff for 10 years!

If Synlube is no good, why would he still be using it?

Comment on that, please.
Probably because there's a little something in it for him. Keep in mind he likes to toss stones into a still pond, and woke me up. This thread was going just fine, read back you'll see where he tossed the crap into it.

Here's a question for you, if the product is as good as you believe it to be, why are you waiting for your warranty to expire? Wouldn't you want the very best oil in that engine from day one? Just curious, I could never understand reading this boards how people will defend a product yet fear using it when they have a warranty.

BTW I have no bones to pick with you, I'm just asking a ? that always facinated me.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Besides in your perfect world you don't need a warranty, not even on an appliance. Just buy it plug it in and if it doesn't work fresh out of the box you'll just buy another one! Good on you sir!



AD



Several years ago in my "not so perfect world" I purchased a Maytag washing machine for 350...discounted from 500 with free delivery..

The extended warranty through HD was only 45 buck for a total of 4 years. Guess what?.......the machine broke down in just under 5 years, and yes...........I had to buy a new washer--AGAIN(not maytag) due to being out of warranty. That was one of the few times I got bit by something like that being just out of warranty.

At present, I have a lifetime warranty on my Jeep bumper-to-bumper,and I am not worried about warranty issues... as long as the maintenance section in my owners manual is 'filled out'........my warranty is good as per Jeep. Usually when something breaks it's typically electronic(very expensive),and/or the transmission needs a rebuild. I have never needed engine work outside of a stretched timing chain many years ago on a used car. Only rebuilt one transmission...on a used car. Transmission flushes almost assures 175-200k. I am thinking about flushing the mopar stuff at 25k and installing..........well,take a guess.

In the past,and present,warranties are sometimes denied coverage due to sludge.... with receipts. I have zero sludge........so that can't ever be an issue.


I will admit that an antifreeze leak into the engine oil will lead to sludge that has led to warranties being denied even though it was an obvious mfg defect. This was discussed on on BITOG when someone was denied using the stuff Tim sells........even though the coolant leak was the culprit....but the 'sludge' clause in the warranty allowed the dealer/mfg to weasel out of any claim.

I would have flushed the engine--TWICE,installed clean oil,and then gone in for service. Also, that person never checked under the hood much......well duh...he never noticed the leak until way too late! I pop the hood at least once weakly and pull the dip stick,etc...so I am aware of what's going on,if anything,and therefore, totally....CONFIDENT!
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Probably because there's a little something in it for him. Keep in mind he likes to toss stones into a still pond, and woke me up. This thread was going just fine, read back you'll see where he tossed the crap into it.

Here's a question for you, if the product is as good as you believe it to be, why are you waiting for your warranty to expire? Wouldn't you want the very best oil in that engine from day one? Just curious, I could never understand reading this boards how people will defend a product yet fear using it when they have a warranty.

BTW I have no bones to pick with you, I'm just asking a ? that always facinated me.

AD

Hi ADFD1,

Nor do I have any bones to pick with you, either.

I've said many times I'm not going to use anything except what's recommended by Ford until warranty runs out. Then I will consider my options.

Btw, it's Trojan who constantly throws stones into a still pond with his stupid remarks.
I'm glad were good! I guess I see it a little differently. If I honestly believed that an oil was far superior to what the factory recommended, was going to keep my engine cleaner, and make it last longer, and the company selling the product would back it up with no if, ands, or buts, then I'd use it. It appears that we don't have that faith, which is why we are using a mfg recommended oil. I'll deal with a real corp that has the resources to back the product, and that the product clearly displays it meets the certs, and not one that claims to be better but doesn't have the certs. Anyone can make those claims from the sidelines since they are not part of the program. Also IMO a solid company doesn't need agents to monitor these threads and jump in and defend and sell at every possible opportunity. That to me is a lack of confidence in the product, and some major insecurity on the part of the sales rep! My 02$.

Still you should try the product if and when you are ready and report first hand info back to us!

AD
And yet, post after post attacking those who question synlube.

A quote from the locked synlube thread: "Personally, I think the product has merit, though, I have not used it."

Said thread is full of attacks from one who claims it has merit. Who attacks anyone who questions it, yet uses said questions to decide not to use it.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
For $20/bottle there should be a $$ back guarantee.

AD


I just saw this at the other place:

Customer Service: 800-382-1858 or email: cs4@zMAX.com

We are dedicated to making your purchasing experience as pleasant as possible. If you have any questions, comments, or other concerns, please use the appropriate number below.

Technical Questions: 888-645-1101 or email: tq4@zMAX.com
We are available for any questions concerning the use of our product or specific vehicle applications.

CustomNote: for refunds under our money back guarantee, please call customer service number 800-382-1858.er Service: 800-382-1858 or email: cs4@zMAX.com
To Order By Phone: 800-382-1858
United States and its territories

Canada and all other international orders
Call 800-382-1858 or email: int4@zMAX.com
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trajan:
There's also a 4 page limited guarantee that comes with the box. Usual caveats that concern what is/isn't covered in the engine/fuel system.



So now........the operative word is..... "usual caveats"......when you're in favor of a certain product. Otherwise,everything else is simply a scam because those 'other' warranties are weasel worded by lawyers to avoid paying any claims.

Newsflash..........all warranties have caveats! Razz
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...er=262355#Post262355

Z-Max
cobravenom71 Offline


Registered: 11/29/02
Posts: 67
Loc: Kissimee, Fla.
Z-Max, along with just about every other miracle additive out there has NEVER been proven by any authotitative lab to do anything benificial for any vehicle.
In fact, when you study the complete reports of most of the labs that give the 'glowing testimonials' for these products, they read completely differently than what the snake-oil markerter claims.
The marketers will take the results and focus on just a portion of any particular test that looks positive and completely ignore the final test conclusion, which is usually inconclusive.(at best!).Sometimes, wear and tear is actually accelerated!
In fact, only one major oil marketer ever even got involved in snake-oil(Valvoline w/ 'TM8),and boy, did they get thier 't*t in a ringer'!
Testimonials are basically worthless, as they are only opinions, and the marketers are not held responsible for anything that is claimed in a testimonial.
Personally, if a company had proven the value of any product 100% with exacting tests and had me convinced, and then brought out the testimonials, I would probably change my mind. Testimonials are only used when there are no facts to back up a claim. If you have facts, who needs testimonials?
When I was younger, I beleived every snake-oil treatment I saw! In fact, in Houston, TX in the 70's, I remember seeing a salesman driving around in his car selling 'Lubrilon'(which I think later became Slick 50).His demonstration with two little metal discs, some of his product, some motor oil and a cigarette lighter stayed with me for years! Great demonstration!
That stuff was (I think) about $200 a quart then! And I bought some! Loved it. It worked great! Maybe.Or maybe not, who knows. I changed my oil every 2,500 miles and had no problems.
Now I think I am a little more educated (hopefully), and I would never dream of putting snake-oil in my motor oil. I change the oil every 2,500. Never have problems.
And about Z-Max in particular, when at a convention several years ago, Z-Max had a booth set up to showcase their product. I took several of my employees with me. The last day of the show, when all the booths were being torn down and everyone was packing up their merchandise, we wandered by the Z-Max table and struck up a conversation.
Anyway, long story short, they ended up giving us an entire pallet of their 3-part kits! Thats 96 kits! Not so we would try the product, and not so we could test it for them (they didn't even know our names or where we were from).No, they gave it to us because they didn't want to load it on the truck!
Didn't really convince me that they think their product is worth much.
I brought the stuff back and gave it all away to my shop managers.
Don't let me sway you though, thats just my opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
There's also a 4 page limited guarantee that comes with the box. Usual caveats that concern what is/isn't covered in the engine/fuel system.




quote:
quoted by Capt. Kirk:
So now........the operative word is..... "usual caveats"......when you're in favor of a certain product. Otherwise,everything else is simply a scam because those 'other' warranties are weasel worded by lawyers to avoid paying any claims.

Newsflash..........all warranties have caveats! Razz



How does that saying go, Capt. Kirk, about "a fool and his money?" Wink

My advice would be to keep using Synlube--as you have done in all of your vehicles for more than ten years--and not add any Zmax.

If Synlube could have been inproved, Miro would have done it.

Save your money!
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...er=262355#Post262355

Z-Max
cobravenom71 Offline

Registered: 11/29/02
Posts: 67
Loc: Kissimee, Fla.
Z-Max, along with just about every other miracle additive out there has NEVER been proven by any authotitative lab to do anything benificial for any vehicle.
In fact, when you study the complete reports of most of the labs that give the 'glowing testimonials' for these products, they read completely differently than what the snake-oil markerter claims.
The marketers will take the results and focus on just a portion of any particular test that looks positive and completely ignore the final test conclusion, which is usually inconclusive.(at best!).Sometimes, wear and tear is actually accelerated!
In fact, only one major oil marketer ever even got involved in snake-oil(Valvoline w/ 'TM8),and boy, did they get thier 't*t in a ringer'!
Testimonials are basically worthless, as they are only opinions, and the marketers are not held responsible for anything that is claimed in a testimonial.
Personally, if a company had proven the value of any product 100% with exacting tests and had me convinced, and then brought out the testimonials, I would probably change my mind. Testimonials are only used when there are no facts to back up a claim. If you have facts, who needs testimonials?
When I was younger, I beleived every snake-oil treatment I saw! In fact, in Houston, TX in the 70's, I remember seeing a salesman driving around in his car selling 'Lubrilon'(which I think later became Slick 50).His demonstration with two little metal discs, some of his product, some motor oil and a cigarette lighter stayed with me for years! Great demonstration!
That stuff was (I think) about $200 a quart then! And I bought some! Loved it. It worked great! Maybe.Or maybe not, who knows. I changed my oil every 2,500 miles and had no problems.
Now I think I am a little more educated (hopefully), and I would never dream of putting snake-oil in my motor oil. I change the oil every 2,500. Never have problems.
And about Z-Max in particular, when at a convention several years ago, Z-Max had a booth set up to showcase their product. I took several of my employees with me. The last day of the show, when all the booths were being torn down and everyone was packing up their merchandise, we wandered by the Z-Max table and struck up a conversation.
Anyway, long story short, they ended up giving us an entire pallet of their 3-part kits! Thats 96 kits! Not so we would try the product, and not so we could test it for them (they didn't even know our names or where we were from).No, they gave it to us because they didn't want to load it on the truck!
Didn't really convince me that they think their product is worth much.
I brought the stuff back and gave it all away to my shop managers.
Don't let me sway you though, thats just my opinion.


If you are interested in Kit Sullivan's (cobravenom71) views on oil have a read. Oil article for Boss302
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Well worth the read.

Smiled when I got to this part: You should try to stay away from the wider spreads like 15W-50, 20W-50 and especially the 5W-50.


I smile too,as this applies to group III,and especially group II oils.

Remember,the high end mustang and many others takes 5w-50 right from the factory,and with every oil change thereafter....and that is normally a group III oil.


I once ran amsoil 20w-50 heavey duty in an 86 regal 5.0 that had 150k on the engine,and over 8k on the now black oil..........in winter with several cold starts that were 0 f,and no issues,not even a single tick. This regal would tick on occasion in the morning during summer using M1 once the oil reached 2k which an oil change or CD2 would fix for a while. Car was sold running better than ever,and never any morning ticking with 190k on the clock......using nothing but the 20-50.

As usual,I will always do the research,and then make up my own mind based on facts. My Jeep that calls for 5w-20 is running with 5w-50......and all is good!

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