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There is a respected Tribologist [sp] on that board Bob Board that states the zMax numbers are statistically insignificant. Since the product is just about pure mineral oil, there are cheaper sources for the stuff as well.

Great debate going on, I'm still on the fence, and not in a position to bad mouth the stuff, but certainly have doubts about how good it would be in engine oil.

AD
Yeah, I've been reading. Interesting observations. (As they should be, as according to miro, it's me.)

I changed to GC, and added the stuff to the oil and gas. I had a slight ping under acceleration that is gone now. And the engine is a bit more quiet.

Could it be because of the Zmax? Fresh oil? Both?

Don't really know. I suspect it's one of these "It works for some but not others" kind of thing.

Best advice I can give is what you're doing. Find out all the data you can. Forget the anecdotes both good and bad. Then decide.
With all the people using it, we will find out soon enough if its the real deal or not. I've been talking with a buddy in NY about this, he frequents these boards a lot. He brought up a good point. He feels that a lot of people are using it, and paying some big dollars for it. As he puts it, if the product flops it will get harpooned on these boards big time! If it is a success we'll hear about that too. The number improvements that were listed really don't tell much of anything, at least from a statistical POV. A few products that didn't work took some serious hits on these boards recently, let the culling continue.

AD
Well, pilots I know love the stuff in their oil, and FAA approvals are not handed out like candy at Halloween.

http://www.avblend.com/faa/faa.html

Different name, but the same formula.

Found this in my net travel: http://www.rlb.50megs.com/oiladitives.html

I'm thinking that to market it to the car crowd, they came up with Zmax, as not many would put Avblend in a ground bound motor.

It's been FAA approved since 1980. And been around far longer. No flopping. Smile
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ADFD1:
With all the people using it, we will find out soon enough if its the real deal or not.



I don't get what all the fuss is about with this now very old product. I have seen this stuff in Pep boys a 'million years ago'.

This stuff is not by any stretch a new product. We've had this product on the market for decades now............over a half century in total. I believe it's been marketed to motorists for over 20 years as z-max.

So..............what do people think since we have had more than enough time to observe-----besides the FTC/BEARING-CORROSION ISSUE.

http://search.yahoo.com/search...20engine%20treatment

DOESN'T LOOK GOOD!

Trajan is always crying for facts-facts-facts...........then ignores them when he doesn't like the results----even when it's from the FTC.

Funny,the stuff I use wasn't bad mouthed by the FTC,ever,only Trajan.....and yet he pours this known 'bearing solvent' into his engine that was already tested by the FTC and also resulted in a million dollar fine to z-max

I think he is just messing with us based on all his other statements about being "afraid" to even use an oil(like Amsoil,or Synlube) unless it's certified,or factory recommended by Bmw,and wheres the facts,etc,etc,yet........now all of a sudden he becomes an Adrenaline Junkie with z-max.......... BULL---I ain't buying it! He's just bored and looking for controversy!
One thing to consider about the FAA certification is that aviation fuel still to this day contains lead. Lead builds up on valve stems,sometimes to the point of sticking. This is the reason for lenckite (zmax) being approved. It can inhibit the build up of lead on exhaust valves. Stuck valve in an airplane = bigger problem than bearing etching. Plain old marvel mystery oil can also make this claim,at roughly ten times less cost. Lots of respected engine builders swear by lenckite,but they will rarly see the high side of 500 miles on a racing engine. For a street car consider other options.
Here's a quote from a respected member on the other site. I did a little digging and found the statment to be correct:

"FAA approval only means that it will do no harm. It is not an endorsement or proof of claimed performance".

I see the way a certain member is defending the product on that site, almost waiting for someone to advise him, probably because that someone was banned or something. I smell a shilled product. I was keeping an open mind but there are too many highly respected people saying the product can't work as claimed. I've pretty much made up my mind. No thanks! YMMV


I hope my buddy in NY who suggested I try the product first isn't mad, but I'm calling it like I see it. Same goes for another product which was shilled here and on Bitog, no thanks to that product as well. You guys you can guess what product is if you like.


AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Here's a quote from a respected member on the other site. I did a little digging and found the statment to be correct:

"FAA approval only means that it will do no harm. It is not an endorsement or proof of claimed performance".

I see the way a certain member is defending the product on that site, almost waiting for someone to advise him, probably because that someone was banned or something. I smell a shilled product. I was keeping an open mind but there are too many highly respected people saying the product can't work as claimed. I've pretty much made up my mind. No thanks! YMMV


I hope my buddy in NY who suggested I try the product first isn't mad, but I'm calling it like I see it. Same goes for another product which was shilled here and on Bitog, no thanks to that product as well. You guys you can guess what product is if you like.


AD


I know who you mean. It would be enough to make me throw my Zmax away if I gave that one's opinion any weight.

In the end, go with what you think best. I'm not going to give anyone who doesn't use it or questions it any grief over it. That's the way of the synlube sock puppets.
quote:
Originally posted by BLK98MK8LSC:
One thing to consider about the FAA certification is that aviation fuel still to this day contains lead. Lead builds up on valve stems,sometimes to the point of sticking. This is the reason for lenckite (zmax) being approved. It can inhibit the build up of lead on exhaust valves. Stuck valve in an airplane = bigger problem than bearing etching. Plain old marvel mystery oil can also make this claim,at roughly ten times less cost. Lots of respected engine builders swear by lenckite,but they will rarly see the high side of 500 miles on a racing engine. For a street car consider other options.


Not just valves from what I've read. Something about cylinder wear reduction/ring stepping... But ya know, I did forget about the lead in avgas.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Here's a quote from a respected member on the other site. I did a little digging and found the statment to be correct:

"FAA approval only means that it will do no harm. It is not an endorsement or proof of claimed performance".

I see the way a certain member is defending the product on that site, almost waiting for someone to advise him, probably because that someone was banned or something. I smell a shilled product. I was keeping an open mind but there are too many highly respected people saying the product can't work as claimed. I've pretty much made up my mind. No thanks! YMMV


I hope my buddy in NY who suggested I try the product first isn't mad, but I'm calling it like I see it. Same goes for another product which was shilled here and on Bitog, no thanks to that product as well. You guys you can guess what product is if you like.


AD


I know who you mean. It would be enough to make me throw my Zmax away if I gave that one's opinion any weight.

In the end, go with what you think best. I'm not going to give anyone who doesn't use it or questions it any grief over it. That's the way of the synlube sock puppets.


I'll be watching these threads, and the reports should be flowing in. Enough positive postings about it from members like yourself and I might just jump onboard.

AD
quote:
In the end, go with what you think best. I'm not going to give anyone who doesn't use it or questions it any grief over it. That's the way of the synlube sock puppets.



That's really good advice.......and that's what I have been doing with no issue all along!

quote:
That's the way of the synlube sock puppets.


[/QUOTE]

At least synlube isn't on the FTC's BLACKBALLED LIST.........A VERY LONG LIST AT THAT!

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/legal/index.html

That's why I can use WHAT I USE with CONFIDENCE!
If you're into additives,and increased life of your vehicle.....try these fuel treatments I have been doing a mix of three(home brew) for years now. I never go to the shop,always pass inspection,no check engine lights,solved issues with used cars,etc.

http://priproducts.com/pdfs/Fl...G%20-%20CONSUMER.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/STA-BIL-...ilizer/dp/B001CAW2DK

http://www.pureenergysystems.c.../17/6900069_Acetone/

http://pesn.com/2005/04/12/6900080_Acetone_and_Ester/

The last link also addresses the lubricity of fuel,and has many references!

Remember,it's today's low grade fuels that are killing engines for various reasons! You can offset this and add much life to your engine by treating the fuel vs the crankcase oil!

This is what you should be worried about from now on......bad fuel!

http://americanelephant.wordpr...nts-you-to-use-more/

http://www.boats.com/blog/2009...e-your-bank-account/
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Here's a quote from a respected member on the other site. I did a little digging and found the statment to be correct:

"FAA approval only means that it will do no harm. It is not an endorsement or proof of claimed performance"

AD


However, and this is something the same poster added, which I just saw:

"In an earlier post I said: FAA approval only means that it will do no harm. It is not an endorsement or proof of claimed performance.

That is true, but I want to clarify that seeking FAA certification is not a trivial, inexpensive task or an insignificant thing for a company to accomplish. Here is a link to the basics of what is required:"

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_...b/$FILE/ac20-24b.pdf
I understand what you are saying. A plane engine is different than a car engine, just as a diesel engine is different than a gas engine. Additives that work in diesel fuel don't always work in gas or the other way around. Reading what some guy called Molakule is saying makes sense to me. Most of the numbers posted mean nothing to someone who knows statistics. I think the FTC had to let them off because of technicalities etc, and they still did pay out a $1,000,000.fine. They didn't do that because they wanted to.

I'm not arguing, just sharing my thoughts in the wee morning hours in WA. I'll continue to wait on reviews from users, so far they seem mixed.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I understand what you are saying. A plane engine is different than a car engine, just as a diesel engine is different than a gas engine. Additives that work in diesel fuel don't always work in gas or the other way around. Reading what some guy called Molakule is saying makes sense to me. Most of the numbers posted mean nothing to someone who knows statistics. I think the FTC had to let them off because of technicalities etc, and they still did pay out a $1,000,000.fine. They didn't do that because they wanted to.

I'm not arguing, just sharing my thoughts in the wee morning hours in WA. I'll continue to wait on reviews from users, so far they seem mixed.

AD


I don't think the FTC let them off, as they are not claiming everything they did before.

I don't think a spark plug fired aircraft engine is much different form a spark plugged auto as far as Pipers and Corvettes go. (As far as how they work generally.) I haven't kept up with it though.

(Though I do remamber one idiot claiming that the rotary engine in a Fokker Dr1 was the same as a Mazda RX-7.....)

Mixed reviews, sure. I think that's true of any product.

Arguements, not from your end and I hope not from mine. Healthy skepticism, yup.

I have no verdict on it at the moment. Except that it hasn't killed anything.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
http://issuu.com/bremach/docs/t-rex_use_maintenance

Page 68

10w-40 or 15w-40 ACEA B3/E2 or API CH4/CG4

So much for the claim that they use "synlube".


Wow! That's your idea of 'calling out' a particular retail motor oil additive .........SPEND A WEEK of your life researching Bremach information because your only real focus is.......SYNLUBE!

How do you know what's in the crankcase when it leaves the factory? Wink

If you had read the manual.You would have notice that page 68 is in the off road section schedule.

Also,there is mention of 'mineral oil' on the chart even though the vehicle is marketed as being sold with NON-petroleum oil. If one is going off road all the time through mud,water,and sand,then of course changing the oil often is wise.

My Jeep Grand Cherokee manual 'recommends' that all lubes be changed every time the vehicle goes off road. So,if I went mudding every weekend,I should change out all lubes......EVERY WEEKEND! In that case,I would use as always.....my 'favorite stuff',and change it out and send it back for credit.
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:


My Jeep Grand Cherokee manual 'recommends' that all lubes be changed every time the vehicle goes off road. So,if I went mudding every weekend,I should change out all lubes......EVERY WEEKEND! In that case,I would use as always.....my 'favorite stuff',and change it out and send it back for credit.


So your buddy Miro/Mora would credit you each and every time you went off road with his oil so long as you sent it back? I doubt it.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:


My Jeep Grand Cherokee manual 'recommends' that all lubes be changed every time the vehicle goes off road. So,if I went mudding every weekend,I should change out all lubes......EVERY WEEKEND! In that case,I would use as always.....my 'favorite stuff',and change it out and send it back for credit.


So your buddy Miro/Mora would credit you each and every time you went off road with his oil so long as you sent it back? I doubt it.

AD


So much for the not changing the oil schtick. And still, no proof that Bremach uses that "oil".

Well, making unproven claims is SOP. Too bad that the bremach manual refutes it.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:


My Jeep Grand Cherokee manual 'recommends' that all lubes be changed every time the vehicle goes off road. So,if I went mudding every weekend,I should change out all lubes......EVERY WEEKEND! In that case,I would use as always.....my 'favorite stuff',and change it out and send it back for credit.


So your buddy Miro/Mora would credit you each and every time you went off road with his oil so long as you sent it back? I doubt it.

AD


Just this past spring I sent back a batch of used oil from various oil filter changes over many years on all cars...........and guess what.....I got a new batch of same quantity shipped back free. I paid 14 bucks for shipping the used oil.

There are programs out there created by clinton years ago to 'green' the environment.

quote:
Former President Clinton's executive order on recycling required that by April 20, 1994, federal agencies implement guidelines for the procurement of re-refined oil-based lubricants for all government vehicles. In fiscal 1992, federal automotive fleets totaled 513,682 vehicles, with the majority run by GSA, DOD and the U.S. Postal Service. Many state and local governments base their own procurement systems on the federal system, extending this mandate reach to fleets of buses, police cars and garbage trucks. Executive Order 13101 also directs federal agencies to help reduce waste by buying recycled products.

Finally, Executive Order 13149, "Greening the Government Through Federal Fleet and Transportation Efficiency," directs, "no federal agencies shall purchase, sell or arrange for the purchase of virgin petroleum motor vehicle lubricating oils when re-refined oils are reasonably available and meet the vehicle manufacturer's recommended performance standards."



That is where the re-fined oil is going.......to the government!
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

That is where the re-fined oil is going.......to the government!


Good one, Kirk. They won't get it, though.

I see nothing has changed since I last read this stuff months ago.

For example, Trojan still whines for data, yet he is unable to comprehend, absorb and retain the "data" that you have accumulated from actually using Synlube in all of your various vehicles for the past decade or so. That counts for nothing, right?

I'm waiting for his frequent inane question, "Why don't you use Synlube in your own vehicle since you like it so much?"

Anybody heard from Nucleardawg? Is he still banned?
I like 0W-xx oil or at least a 5W-xx. Pennzoil is one of my favorites, finding it in a 0w is tough, I think they only offer it in one of their oils. A buddy in NY got me hooked on Edge, I respect his opinions a lot, he ran everything from M-1 to Amsoil SSO and ASM and just likes the sound of his vehicles using Edge. I'm just sharing info from a respected knowledgeable friend!

I grabbed some 0W20 Edge for my GF's Jeep and noticed the engine is quieter too than PP 5W20. I'll be giving the 5W30 Edge a try shortly myself. Hopefully they'll offer it in a 0W30 as well.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
Nope, still under warranty. I don't expect to encounter any issues, but I'm still going to wait. It's a great little engine. I'm getting about 23 mpg at highway speeds, very quiet, no vibrations.

I've been using Pensoil 10W30 synthetic. I wasn't aware that it's a Group iv oil. Next change will be to Group V.

Any recommendations?


The Pennzoil 10w30 is only a group III petroleum synthetic oil and only warranted for up to 4,000 miles. If you want to move up in a group III petroleum synthetic API SN, GF5, Energy Conserving, use the AMSOIL OE 10w30 warranted for the length of the OEM change interval for only $3.99 a quart wholesale, case of 12 quarts price.

What is the year/make/model/engine of your vehicle?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Just wondering why do these threads always turn into an Amsoil sales pitch? I don't see Mobil Castrol or Pennzoil pitching here.

AD
Well let's see. Mobil is only a brand and not a company. When Exxon tried to do a Q&A on Bobistheoilguy, they got their butts handed to them. Probably don't want that to happen here also.

Castrol is only a brand owned by British Petroleum. With the dozens of Americans they've killed and responsible for the largest environmental disaster in the US, they are probably busy with all their problems and would like a low profile.

Pennzoil is also not a company, only a brand owned by the Dutch. They probably don't know Noria exists.

Besides, none of them are even listed by API for the latest SN and Resource Conserving Certifications. Probably busy trying to get those even though they became effective Oct. 1. AMSOIL had no problem meeting that date.
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
Nope, still under warranty. I don't expect to encounter any issues, but I'm still going to wait. It's a great little engine. I'm getting about 23 mpg at highway speeds, very quiet, no vibrations.

I've been using Pensoil 10W30 synthetic. I wasn't aware that it's a Group iv oil. Next change will be to Group V.

Any recommendations?

InHaliburton,
10W-30 seems a little thick for the V-6 in your Ranger, especially in those cold Canada winters. Ford specs 5W-20. Pennzoil Platinum is a Group III, but a good oil. I would try running the MotorCraft 5W-20 Synthetic Blend while you are under warranty. Meets Ford specs and is a very good Conoco/Phillips oil. Pretty inexpensive and would keep you in warranty.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
Nope, still under warranty. I don't expect to encounter any issues, but I'm still going to wait. It's a great little engine. I'm getting about 23 mpg at highway speeds, very quiet, no vibrations.

I've been using Pensoil 10W30 synthetic. I wasn't aware that it's a Group iv oil. Next change will be to Group V.

Any recommendations?

InHaliburton,
10W-30 seems a little thick for the V-6 in your Ranger, especially in those cold Canada winters. Ford specs 5W-20. Pennzoil Platinum is a Group III, but a good oil. I would try running the MotorCraft 5W-20 Synthetic Blend while you are under warranty. Meets Ford specs and is a very good Conoco/Phillips oil. Pretty inexpensive and would keep you in warranty.

Dave
I picked up a bottle of Ford Motorcraft the other day and it is still only API SM and GF4 and made in Korea. What's up with that?
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I don't see SSO or ASM wearing an API certs, so don't go there.
Why not? AMSOIL has 6 or 7 that are API SN certified. Mobil, Pennzoil and Castrol don't have any API SN Certifed listed at API.org.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: The truth is the big oil companies don't hire wanna be oil executives to shill product, or work the MLM marketing to sell product.
So now you are an expert on big oil hiring? The truth is many have experienced record layoffs in the last few years.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: I wonder how much of the actual Amsoil profit is passed along the MLM pyramid.
I earn 20% on my sales. Same with the WIX/Donaldson/NGK/Mann and other AMSOIL business partners.

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:As far as the SM Motorcaft oil you saw, it was probably old stock.
Wrong again. Current stock at my Ford Dealership that they are putting in 2011 Fords.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: Since most of Amsoil's products aren't API recognized its just a matter of using a new label. OE coincidently came out with the new spec, no old stock to have to re-label or sell off.
Most of the other major oil companies products are also not API recognized. AMSOIL rarely has any old stock. Sells as fast as it is made. Sales have doubled in the past 4 years.


quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:The way I see it is any opportunity you get to push product you will. XOM, Shell and BP don't have to be bothered their products sell themselves. I'm also guessing Amsoil does a lot of business with one of these companies too, without them they'd be SOL.

AD
Not true. XOM, Shell and BP spend far more in advertising than AMSOIL does. Because they have to. I'd rather see them put that money, huge executive bonuses, outrageous golden parachutes, golf memberships, skyscrapers, etc. into their products, like AMSOIL does.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Old stock, at least it has the API certs, not like many of the Amsoil products.

Besides isn't this a Zmax thread? No reason to be selling Amsoil here.

AD


This is a Zmax thread. If someone wants to use it, go for it! I am an Amsoil dealer, but you don't see me hawking it on the boards. I don't use the oil, but do use other AMS products in my vehicles.

The MotorCraft oil meets the Ford Specs and warranty requirements and I maintain over 250 CVPI's that see hard use. M/C holds up fine in Law Enforcement work (very severe use). Motorcraft oil filters are pretty stout too.

Dave
Thanks Dave! I can respect your position. The constant Hawking of Amsoil at every possible opportunity by one of their reps is MOST ANNOYING. I wish the mods would put a muzzle on him. Maybe he can learn a lesson from you. It is people like him that totally turn a lot of us off toward Amsoil. I can name at least half a dozen people maybe more I personally know of without spending much time thinking about it.

Just the fact that you recognize MC oil as a quality product speaks volumes. Maybe you should let more members know you sell Amsoil, people turned off by the constant hawking of product by we know who might do business with you!

Back on topic this is a Zmax thread, not a lets bash Motorcraft to sell Amsoil thread.

Respectfully,
AD

PS please note I edited my prior thread not to trigger Tim off, but he managed to use it after I edited it! Check the time stamp.

BTW Tim big deal your Ford dealer is using up old stock. They must be confident enough in their API SM oil to use it without any fear.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Thanks Dave! I can respect your position. The constant Hawking of Amsoil at every possible opportunity by one of their reps is MOST ANNOYING. I wish the mods would put a muzzle on him. Maybe he can learn a lesson from you. It is people like him that totally turn a lot of us off toward Amsoil. I can name at least half a dozen people maybe more I personally know of without spending much time thinking about it.

Just the fact that you recognize MC oil as a quality product speaks volumes. Maybe you should let more members know you sell Amsoil, people turned off by the constant hawking of product by we know who might do business with you!

Back on topic this is a Zmax thread, not a lets bash Motorcraft to sell Amsoil thread.

Respectfully,
AD

PS please note I edited my prior thread not to trigger Tim off, but he managed to use it after I edited it! Check the time stamp.

BTW Tim big deal your Ford dealer is using up old stock. They must be confident enough in their API SM oil to use it without any fear.


I have some Zmax on my workbench, although I have not seen the use for it yet. My Titan sees only top-tier fuel and some Techron or Regane every 6 months. I really like Amsoil's gear oils, metal protector, quickshot (for OPE) and other products. MMO did not make much of a difference as a fuel additive, but I am going to try the Zmax for grins and giggles. If it helps, I will let you guys know (not scientific or proven data though).
Dave
I'd be interested in your report. I've read a few cases of some positive results, but the reviews are mixed at this point. I think zMax has more value in the gas than it would in the oil.

I heard Amsoil gear oils were good too. My buddy wasn't impressed after using ASM and SSO for a full year. There's good and bad in everything. I'm sure glad you're not trying to ram it down anyone's throat who doesn't have glowing reviews of the stuff. OOOPS off topic again.


AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I'd be interested in your report. I've read a few cases of some positive results, but the reviews are mixed at this point. I think zMax has more value in the gas than it would in the oil.

I heard Amsoil gear oils were good too. My buddy wasn't impressed after using ASM and SSO for a full year. There's good and bad in everything. I'm sure glad you're not trying to ram it down anyone's throat who doesn't have glowing reviews of the stuff. OOOPS off topic again.


AD


ADFD1,

Amsoil's Gear Oils are pretty good. I use 75W-140 in my diff with no problems, 30 weight in my OPE now, Metal protector on my firearms, etc. My cars crankcases get Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra (if I can find it). Just bought a 2008 Taurus SEL for my Daughter, it will see Motorcraft 5W-20 and Motorcraft FL400S oil filter. Nothing wrong with MC oil for 5-7.5 OCI. If I was wanting long OCI's I might use SSO, but the 0W is too thin for my motor.

Dave

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