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It looks like the automakers(GM) are going to be leading the way and setting the motor oil standards in the near future,rather than Big oil setting the standard. This is how it's been done in Europe for many years now.

The DEXOS motor oil standard will be superior to the New GF-5 standard making Dexos similar to the European motor oil standards, and it's about time!

http://motoroilbible.com/blog/...exos-motor-oil-spec/

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/nov2009/cover.htm

http://www.nalube.com/e-newsle...chive/2009/july.html


This is a quote from one of the links that shows how good this new standard will be even over the GF-5 stanard.

<<<<The final Dexos standard has characteristics of a European formulation; improved oil robustness to support extended drain intervals with no improvements to fuel economy. In fact, Dexos requirements will incorporate a number of European performance tests (ACEA) that are not applicable in GF-4 or GF-5 standards. Dexos’ final formulation is considered more robust than GF-4 and new GF-5 standards. This is in contrast to one of the key elements of the proposed GF-5 standard, improved fuel economy. GM called for improvements in oil robustness and extended service intervals to support their vehicle’s Oil Life Monitoring System (OLMS) and to require fewer lifetime service visits. Upon the successful implementation of Dexos, GM will likely recalibrate the algorithm on OLMS to further extend intervals, as was done with the introduction of GF-4.>>>>



Kirk
Last edited {1}
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The new GF-5 is already looking not to be a very good choice for doing extended oil change intervals which goes against the direction the industry is headed.

The new Dexos is making the GF-5 seem absolete already.....at least in the realm of extended oil change intervals.

...QUOTE....

<<<<<<GM plans to phase out any mention of ILSAC or API specifications in its owners manuals, in order to promote the new dexos specification. A mockup of an owners manual Johnson showed includes the warning: “Failure to use the recommended oil can result in engine damage not covered by the vehicle warranty.”
Impact on the Lube Industry

The initiatives being undertaken by both automakers will have a lasting impact on the fast lube industry. Ford’s reliance on smaller, harder-working turbocharged engines will put even more pressure on motor oil, possibly limiting the ability of even the next-generation GF-5 motor oil to offer oil change intervals that are much extended beyond today’s standards.

GM, meanwhile, will shortly introduce a proprietary (probably synthetic) motor oil that will allow its engines to maximize technologies like displacement on demand and variable valve technology. >>>>>>


Apparently, the automakers have not been very satisfied with the quality of the present day lubes and all the issues it has caused in their engines.

This indicates that the automakers have lost faith and confidence with the API standards set by big oil, and now are going to take matters into their own hands as did the Europeans to finally raise the lube standards where they actually need to be with todays high tech engines.
Last edited by captainkirk
a giant leap from the currently accepted norm, where OEM specs are typically established only for specific vehicles that truly require the additional protection guaranteed by adherence to a more robust OEM specification

So much for the "big oil" theory......

"(ACEA), was founded in 1991 to represent the interests of the 15 European automotive manufacturers."
"The vast majority of motor oils in North America meet or exceed ACEA standards"

"The International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee, better known as ILSAC, is a consortium of the automakers - General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC - and the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association"

Ummm, GM is doing this for *all* their engines. Instead of a few. "for all motor oils which are to be used in ANY of their vehicles."

Again, from his own links. And again, so much for "big oil".
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Trajan,
For what it is worth, most major brand "dino" oils will be able to meet the GF-5 standard. Pennzoil YB is already working on the API SN standard. Not bad for a group II oil.

Dave


That's a bold statement that most major brand dino oils will meet the GF-5 standard.

That sounds like your opinion rather than fact.

For what its worth,the dexos standard will be superior to the GF-5 standard,because dexos will be held to a higher standard similiar to the European standard.

Why use an oil that adheres to a minimum standard rather than a higher standard like dexos,or any high quality present day group iv synthetic oil? With the price to fill up at the pump for fuel....motor oil is cheap.....even synthetic.
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
a giant leap from the currently accepted norm, where OEM specs are typically established only for specific vehicles that truly require the additional protection guaranteed by adherence to a more robust OEM specification

So much for the "big oil" theory......

"(ACEA), was founded in 1991 to represent the interests of the 15 European automotive manufacturers."
"The vast majority of motor oils in North America meet or exceed ACEA standards"

"The International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee, better known as ILSAC, is a consortium of the automakers - General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC - and the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association"

Ummm, GM is doing this for *all* their engines. Instead of a few. "for all motor oils which are to be used in ANY of their vehicles."

Again, from his own links. And again, so much for "big oil".



WHAT? WHAT EXACTLY IS YOUR POINT.......DO YOU HAVE ONE?


My point is that two new lube standards are comming very soon...with dexos being the much better standard,because dexos is more in line with the European standard of which you adhere to yourself with the German castrol synthetic oil you claim to use.
quote:
For what it is worth, most major brand "dino" oils will be able to


QUOTE..

While each company must meet the stringent GF-5 standards, they may take slightly different approaches to meeting the specification in types and amounts of additives and modifiers. One thing is certain: there will be a higher content of additives and synthetic compounds. This will increase oil life, protect the metal and sealing . END QUOTE


Dave,you said most Dino oils will meet the new GF-5 standard yet overlooked the fact that synthetics will have to be added to achieve that standard.


Kirk
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Trajan,
For what it is worth, most major brand "dino" oils will be able to meet the GF-5 standard. Pennzoil YB is already working on the API SN standard. Not bad for a group II oil.

Dave


Not at all Dave. Not bad at all. Now if only there is an A3/B3 dino.... Smile

Oil formulation has come a long way.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Much nonsense....
.


Not my fault you make big oil your personal demon and yet post links that shoot down that theory.


The real demon was all the issues the old lube standards allowed to happen to all those engines....excess wear....sludge....etc.

The reason for the new dexos standard is to avoid any engine damage that stemmed from low quality motor oils.

The fact the automakers are setting new standards of their own like the Europeans...proves they are not happy with the GF-4 or GF-5 standards,and have grown tired waiting for much better oil standards that never seems to arrive,even though the automakers have requested it in the past.

The automakers have done their job building higher tech,cleaner,and more efficient engines as per the EPA,and government. However, big oil has let them down,and now the automakers are finally taking matters into their own hands and getting the lube standards those engines needed all along,following Europes lead from the engine black death years that led to far better oil.

Using your logic,you could assert the automakers are the ones demonizing big oil.....and for good reason!!! Just look at history!! I don't blame the automakers. If I were building high tech engines,I too would demand a certain lube standard,or create my own standards if others couldn't deliver.
This link is further proof of the pressures being put to the automakers to make even higher tech,cleaner running,and more fuel efficient engines.

GF-5 is already obsolete in my opinion and we will need far better motor oil standards to meet these governmental pressures for lower emissions and less greenhouse gases.

Dexos is a step in the right direction,and any premium Group IV/V synthetic already meets or exceeds those standards like I have been saying in all those other threads. Even the group IV synthetics will be improved where and when needed.

These new standards justifies what I have been saying all along!!

Better emission standards must equate to better lube standards to match the higher tech engines,hence the reason for dexos.


http://www.treehugger.com/file...mission-standard.php

Further info showing GF-5 may not be the best standard,and this could be what has led to the dexos standard.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/for...nny-on-gf-5-oil.html
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
For what it is worth, most major brand "dino" oils will be able to


QUOTE..

While each company must meet the stringent GF-5 standards, they may take slightly different approaches to meeting the specification in types and amounts of additives and modifiers. One thing is certain: there will be a higher content of additives and synthetic compounds. This will increase oil life, protect the metal and sealing . END QUOTE


Dave,you said most Dino oils will meet the new GF-5 standard yet overlooked the fact that synthetics will have to be added to achieve that standard.


Kirk


Kirk, explain this then.. PYB already meets/exceeds GF-5 and API SN, although not "officially" certified. Still a conventional oil and not a blend.
Pennzoil Conventional Spec. Sheet

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Thanks for the site. My take on GF-5 spec is better protection for Ethanol (E-85) use, seal compatibility, and of course, fuel economy.

Speaking of ethanol, here in Central FL, it is about impossible to find a station that does not have 10% or less ethanol per gallon. Stuff wreaks havoc on OPE carburetor gaskets!

Dave


Hi Dave. My Florida customers complain more about ethanol than anywhere else. Probably because of the high humidity. It is supposed to go to 15% ethanol soon.

This is the product that AMSOIL just released to help deal with ethanol: http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/aqs.aspx?zo=1181889 .

Q&A on this product at: https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/...e_AQS.pdf?zo=1181889 .

Power Point presentation at https://admin.acrobat.com/_a72...t=true&pbMode=normal .

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