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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

It looks like the automakers(GM) are going to be leading the way and setting the motor oil standards in the near future,rather than Big oil setting the standard. This is how it's been done in Europe for many years now.

The DEXOS motor oil standard will be superior to the New GF-5 standard making Dexos similar to the European motor oil standards, and it's about time!

http://motoroilbible.com/blog/...exos-motor-oil-spec/

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/nov2009/cover.htm

http://www.nalube.com/e-newsle...chive/2009/july.html


This is a quote from one of the links that shows how good this new standard will be even over the GF-5 stanard.

<<<<The final Dexos standard has characteristics of a European formulation; improved oil robustness to support extended drain intervals with no improvements to fuel economy. In fact, Dexos requirements will incorporate a number of European performance tests (ACEA) that are not applicable in GF-4 or GF-5 standards. Dexos’ final formulation is considered more robust than GF-4 and new GF-5 standards. This is in contrast to one of the key elements of the proposed GF-5 standard, improved fuel economy. GM called for improvements in oil robustness and extended service intervals to support their vehicle’s Oil Life Monitoring System (OLMS) and to require fewer lifetime service visits. Upon the successful implementation of Dexos, GM will likely recalibrate the algorithm on OLMS to further extend intervals, as was done with the introduction of GF-4.>>>>



Kirk
Last edited {1}
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The new GF-5 is already looking not to be a very good choice for doing extended oil change intervals which goes against the direction the industry is headed.

The new Dexos is making the GF-5 seem absolete already.....at least in the realm of extended oil change intervals.

...QUOTE....

<<<<<<GM plans to phase out any mention of ILSAC or API specifications in its owners manuals, in order to promote the new dexos specification. A mockup of an owners manual Johnson showed includes the warning: “Failure to use the recommended oil can result in engine damage not covered by the vehicle warranty.”
Impact on the Lube Industry

The initiatives being undertaken by both automakers will have a lasting impact on the fast lube industry. Ford’s reliance on smaller, harder-working turbocharged engines will put even more pressure on motor oil, possibly limiting the ability of even the next-generation GF-5 motor oil to offer oil change intervals that are much extended beyond today’s standards.

GM, meanwhile, will shortly introduce a proprietary (probably synthetic) motor oil that will allow its engines to maximize technologies like displacement on demand and variable valve technology. >>>>>>


Apparently, the automakers have not been very satisfied with the quality of the present day lubes and all the issues it has caused in their engines.

This indicates that the automakers have lost faith and confidence with the API standards set by big oil, and now are going to take matters into their own hands as did the Europeans to finally raise the lube standards where they actually need to be with todays high tech engines.
Last edited by captainkirk
a giant leap from the currently accepted norm, where OEM specs are typically established only for specific vehicles that truly require the additional protection guaranteed by adherence to a more robust OEM specification

So much for the "big oil" theory......

"(ACEA), was founded in 1991 to represent the interests of the 15 European automotive manufacturers."
"The vast majority of motor oils in North America meet or exceed ACEA standards"

"The International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee, better known as ILSAC, is a consortium of the automakers - General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC - and the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association"

Ummm, GM is doing this for *all* their engines. Instead of a few. "for all motor oils which are to be used in ANY of their vehicles."

Again, from his own links. And again, so much for "big oil".
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Trajan,
For what it is worth, most major brand "dino" oils will be able to meet the GF-5 standard. Pennzoil YB is already working on the API SN standard. Not bad for a group II oil.

Dave


That's a bold statement that most major brand dino oils will meet the GF-5 standard.

That sounds like your opinion rather than fact.

For what its worth,the dexos standard will be superior to the GF-5 standard,because dexos will be held to a higher standard similiar to the European standard.

Why use an oil that adheres to a minimum standard rather than a higher standard like dexos,or any high quality present day group iv synthetic oil? With the price to fill up at the pump for fuel....motor oil is cheap.....even synthetic.
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
a giant leap from the currently accepted norm, where OEM specs are typically established only for specific vehicles that truly require the additional protection guaranteed by adherence to a more robust OEM specification

So much for the "big oil" theory......

"(ACEA), was founded in 1991 to represent the interests of the 15 European automotive manufacturers."
"The vast majority of motor oils in North America meet or exceed ACEA standards"

"The International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee, better known as ILSAC, is a consortium of the automakers - General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC - and the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association"

Ummm, GM is doing this for *all* their engines. Instead of a few. "for all motor oils which are to be used in ANY of their vehicles."

Again, from his own links. And again, so much for "big oil".



WHAT? WHAT EXACTLY IS YOUR POINT.......DO YOU HAVE ONE?


My point is that two new lube standards are comming very soon...with dexos being the much better standard,because dexos is more in line with the European standard of which you adhere to yourself with the German castrol synthetic oil you claim to use.
quote:
For what it is worth, most major brand "dino" oils will be able to


QUOTE..

While each company must meet the stringent GF-5 standards, they may take slightly different approaches to meeting the specification in types and amounts of additives and modifiers. One thing is certain: there will be a higher content of additives and synthetic compounds. This will increase oil life, protect the metal and sealing . END QUOTE


Dave,you said most Dino oils will meet the new GF-5 standard yet overlooked the fact that synthetics will have to be added to achieve that standard.


Kirk
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Trajan,
For what it is worth, most major brand "dino" oils will be able to meet the GF-5 standard. Pennzoil YB is already working on the API SN standard. Not bad for a group II oil.

Dave


Not at all Dave. Not bad at all. Now if only there is an A3/B3 dino.... Smile

Oil formulation has come a long way.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Much nonsense....
.


Not my fault you make big oil your personal demon and yet post links that shoot down that theory.


The real demon was all the issues the old lube standards allowed to happen to all those engines....excess wear....sludge....etc.

The reason for the new dexos standard is to avoid any engine damage that stemmed from low quality motor oils.

The fact the automakers are setting new standards of their own like the Europeans...proves they are not happy with the GF-4 or GF-5 standards,and have grown tired waiting for much better oil standards that never seems to arrive,even though the automakers have requested it in the past.

The automakers have done their job building higher tech,cleaner,and more efficient engines as per the EPA,and government. However, big oil has let them down,and now the automakers are finally taking matters into their own hands and getting the lube standards those engines needed all along,following Europes lead from the engine black death years that led to far better oil.

Using your logic,you could assert the automakers are the ones demonizing big oil.....and for good reason!!! Just look at history!! I don't blame the automakers. If I were building high tech engines,I too would demand a certain lube standard,or create my own standards if others couldn't deliver.
This link is further proof of the pressures being put to the automakers to make even higher tech,cleaner running,and more fuel efficient engines.

GF-5 is already obsolete in my opinion and we will need far better motor oil standards to meet these governmental pressures for lower emissions and less greenhouse gases.

Dexos is a step in the right direction,and any premium Group IV/V synthetic already meets or exceeds those standards like I have been saying in all those other threads. Even the group IV synthetics will be improved where and when needed.

These new standards justifies what I have been saying all along!!

Better emission standards must equate to better lube standards to match the higher tech engines,hence the reason for dexos.


http://www.treehugger.com/file...mission-standard.php

Further info showing GF-5 may not be the best standard,and this could be what has led to the dexos standard.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/for...nny-on-gf-5-oil.html
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
For what it is worth, most major brand "dino" oils will be able to


QUOTE..

While each company must meet the stringent GF-5 standards, they may take slightly different approaches to meeting the specification in types and amounts of additives and modifiers. One thing is certain: there will be a higher content of additives and synthetic compounds. This will increase oil life, protect the metal and sealing . END QUOTE


Dave,you said most Dino oils will meet the new GF-5 standard yet overlooked the fact that synthetics will have to be added to achieve that standard.


Kirk


Kirk, explain this then.. PYB already meets/exceeds GF-5 and API SN, although not "officially" certified. Still a conventional oil and not a blend.
Pennzoil Conventional Spec. Sheet

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Thanks for the site. My take on GF-5 spec is better protection for Ethanol (E-85) use, seal compatibility, and of course, fuel economy.

Speaking of ethanol, here in Central FL, it is about impossible to find a station that does not have 10% or less ethanol per gallon. Stuff wreaks havoc on OPE carburetor gaskets!

Dave


Hi Dave. My Florida customers complain more about ethanol than anywhere else. Probably because of the high humidity. It is supposed to go to 15% ethanol soon.

This is the product that AMSOIL just released to help deal with ethanol: http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/aqs.aspx?zo=1181889 .

Q&A on this product at: https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/...e_AQS.pdf?zo=1181889 .

Power Point presentation at https://admin.acrobat.com/_a72...t=true&pbMode=normal .
Valero is not real popular here. I usually use Chevron or Texaco. I get about 30-40 more miles per tankful than discount stations. Probably due to less ethanol, but about 2-3 cents higher per gal. At least my Titan is Flex-Fuel. Altima is not.

I might try the Amsoil Powershot for my OPE. I use Saber Pro for my 2 cycle mix.

I think the GF-5 is a step up, at least to keep internals from rusting/corroding from the corn liquor.

I did read that some testing has changed for the GF-5 certifications... Confused Anyone enlighten me? Something to do with the high temp wear protection..

Thanks,
Dave
I guess they kept the same high temp testing for GF-5. Some older posts on various boards (late 08 early 09), mentioned that the high temp testing was going to be different.

I might try some TC-W3 in the tank and see how it goes. Titan out of warranty anyways. I might use some old 2-stroke gas/oil mix that I have sitting around from last year. I will put in a gallon of that stuff first (my tank is almost 30 gal).

dave
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
The thing about the TC is that it's ashless, which makes it catalytic converter friendly.

And cost/benefit wise, you can't beat it.

30 gal tank... Ouch. Especially if it's premium.

And, going back to Briggs and Stratton:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2...motive-atrocities/3/


Titan takes Regular 87, thank goodness. Love the Briggs ride, turn of the century go-kart!

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
The thing about the TC is that it's ashless, which makes it catalytic converter friendly.

And cost/benefit wise, you can't beat it.

30 gal tank... Ouch. Especially if it's premium.

And, going back to Briggs and Stratton:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2...motive-atrocities/3/


I have been using various fuel lube products such as,MMO,redline,lucas UCL,and even the amsoil 100:1 saber(500:1 in car).

Lately, I have been using the lucas UCL at roughly 5.25 ounces to 25 gallons of fuel. Seems to be the cheapest way to go. They sell the stuff by the gallon on Amazon with free shipping for about $25. In the past, the lucas quieted down a noisey fuel pump in my last car.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Yeah, well, we're more interested in the question above.
To wit: Kirk, explain this then.. PYB already meets/exceeds GF-5 and API SN, although not "officially" certified. Still a conventional oil and not a blend. http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/...601_201003012040.pdf

$25/gal for Lucas vs $11/gal for Super Tech TC-W3 which works just as well....


I read the shell link and noted the Noack volality of almost 15%. Would you put that stuff in you Beamer at 15% volatility? Also,how robust is the oil at wear protection? My guess,not nearly as good as dexos or other group IV oils.

The dexos will have a much lower Noack Volatily than 15%.

Quote
The enhanced robustness of Dexos is categorized by improved low temperature pumpability, reduced volatility limits, tightened limits on weighted piston deposit tests and more aggressive sludge performance. These performance characteristics will require a formulation with additional detergents, dispersants and ashless oxidation inhibitors. Improvements in low temperature performance, volatility and piston deposit control will dictate a base oil mix of predominately Group III synthetic base stocks.


What standard do you want in your engine???

What oil do you already pour into your engine to date.
The 2 areas of improvement for GF-5/SN are 1. fuel economy 2. high temperature deposit protetion (TEOST).

Most of your top tier synthetics will already meet the GF-5/SN spec, but they are testing them for fuel economy improvements. I asked Amsoil recently about GF-5 and they said they are field testing their formulations due out this fall. It's been shown in some studies that friction modification wears out after 5-7k miles of use.

There have been no concerns among most automakers with GF-4 oils and wear control. This is why the Seq IVA stayed the same. The Seq IIIG, which Pennzoil is using to advertise Ultra, I believe stayed the same as well.

Engines are lasting longer then they ever have, most of which use the current API GF-4 specification. No one said the API specification is the end all of specs, but it does ensure consistent quality or at least represents a quality level.

Honda & Toyota are moving to 10k mile drain intervals with many of their new cars, using nothing but conventional/syn blend oils.

dexos1 is supposedly somewhere in between GF-5/SN and Mobil 1 in terms of quality level.

Amsoil does deserve a lot of credit for pushing extended drain intervals. They have been promoting ext. drains since 1974. The industry is finally moving in that direction.
quote:

Skip Navigation LinksHome : Information Centre : Crankcase Specifications Development : ILSAC GF-5 Knowledge Hub : Infineum Perspective
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Infineum Perspective

GENERAL
INFINEUM ENDORSES SPECIFIC ACTIVITIES
ITEMS REQUIRING FURTHER DISCUSSION
WHERE WE ARE TODAY

Infineum believes that the new category will represent a significant improvement over ILSAC GF-4 engine oils. This should be verified by introducing a Sequence VID SAE 5W-20 passing reference oil as well as an ILSAC GF-5 category demonstration oil. In addition to confirming the viability of the new category, such reference oils allow all stakeholders to recognise when issues develop due to changes in hardware and fuel over the life of the engine tests. Update #9, December 2009

Major oil marketers and OEM representative share timing for use of GEOS A (2011 MY vehicles) and its impact on the marketplace vs. ILSAC GF-5 Update #6, June 2009

Infineum View on Timing for September 2010 Launch (PDF 25 kB) Update #4, January 2009

Matt Snider, Project Engineer Fuels and Lubricants at General Motors Corporation, gives us his viewpoints on the needs for global engine oils and for GF-5, as well as GMs recently announced global GEOS A and B lubricant specifications.

Fran Lockwood of Ashland Consumer Markets shares her opinion of how GF-4 fluids are performing and offers her assessment of meeting future needs.
GENERAL

We support ILSAC GF-5 and its ability to improve fuel economy and emissions systems compatibility. However, we question the need to upgrade ILSAC GF-5 to further improve engine protection until such time as there are data to show an upgrade is needed. Internal Infineum data reveal that ILSAC GF-4 oils are doing an outstanding job of protecting today’s engines and the vast majority of engines for the foreseeable future.
INFINEUM ENDORSES SPECIFIC ACTIVITIES

* We support working cooperatively with OEMs to develop oils that meet the needs of new engine technologies, including development of appropriate tests that will ensure engine protection.

+ As new hardware is introduced, and if ILSAC GF-5 oils are deemed not adequate for those specific engines, the issue can be addressed in a timely manner via additional OEM specifications.

+ There may also be potential for a future category as use of new engine technology becomes more widespread. This is consistent with today's approach where ILSAC GF-4 is not specified for 100% of the North America fleet.

* We support improved Fuel Economy from the Sequence VID Consortium work provided that test shows acceptable discrimination and precision.

* We support improved emissions system compatibility from ESCIT work, retaining 0.08 wt% Phosphorus (P) max / 0.06 wt% P min, and 0.5 wt % Sulphur max.

* We support oils that should be compatible with E-85 fuel (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline)

* We support industry’s efforts to maintain and extend the life of existing engine tests that have provided tools for industry to develop oils that do an outstanding job in protecting today’s engines.



ITEMS REQUIRING FURTHER DISCUSSION

* ILSAC GF-4 is a robust category and as such, performance limits for current tests should be retained unless clear deficiencies can be demonstrated. Directional improvements in sludge and deposit protection are also in conflict with OEMs desire to improve Fuel Economy.

* We do not believe SIDI (Spark Ignition Direct Injection) or turbocharger protection should be included in ILSAC GF-5 because requirements are not well understood. Many turbocharged engines appear to receive adequate protection from ILSAC GF-4 oils today; the few that do not are appropriately addressed by OEM specifications.

* Although it is a marketer and OEM issue, we believe that the SAE 10W-30 should not be included as an ILSAC GF-5 viscosity grade as very few engines today or in the future will require it. The few engines that might can be attended to via OEM specifications.

Infineum research also indicates that almost all OEMs do not specify SAE 10W-30 now. In fact, some will not have specified this grade in more than 10 years by the time ILSAC GF-5 oils are introduced. Marketers and oil change facilities are doing a good job using the right oils, which can be seen by the growth of SAE 5W-20 and 5W-30 oils and the decline in SAE 10W-30 oils.

+ We believe that inclusion of a Starburst on this oil misleads consumers into using a viscosity grade that will not provide the same level of Fuel Economy as an SAE 0W-20, 0W-30, 5W-20 or 5W-30.

* Infineum supports the use of OEM specifications to address and incorporate specific engine builder needs in a timely fashion. These OEM specifications should build on an industry specification such as ILSAC GF-5 that is responsive to the needs of a majority of the vehicles on the road today and in the near future.

Why Infineum no longer supports SAE 10W-30 [PPT 212Kb]
Where we are today

Infineum agrees that the new Sequence VID test is an adequate replacement for the Sequence VIB using modern engine technology. We are disappointed, however, that the Sequence VID still shows significant differences among the various test laboratories, and test results still appear highly dependent on the age of the engine. Industry has made good efforts to get this test ready for the new category. What has made this task so difficult is the great job that OEMs have already done to take friction out of the engine.

Infineum has considerable concern over the ability of the Sequence VID to show differences among ILSAC GF-4 and ILSAC GF-5 engine oils. We also are quite uneasy about Industry’s ability to provide a true 0.5% fuel economy improvement in ILSAC GF-5 oils over ILSAC GF-4 oils as requested in the draft ILSAC GF-5 specification. The oil selected by ILSAC as the ILSAC GF-5 capable candidate for the Sequence VID precision matrix has not even come close to passing the Sequence VID limits proposed by ILSAC at the May 12, 2009 ILSAC/Oil meeting. In fact, with regard to retained fuel economy, the ILSAC GF-4 oils included in the precision matrix proved to be better than the ILSAC GF-5 capable candidate oil included in the matrix.

Another key issue is the ability of the Sequence VID to show statistically significant differences either among SAE 0W-20 and 5W-20 oils or among SAE 0W-30 and 5W-30 oils – or even SAE 10W-30 for that matter. Infineum has observed that the test is highly correlated to high temperature high sheer (HTHS) viscosity, and it does not appear to be capable of showing SAE 0W multigrade oils to be better in fuel economy versus SAE 5W multigrade oils. This does not mean that in the real world SAE 0W-20 oils will not provide improved fuel economy compared with SAE 5W-20 oils, but only that the Sequence VID cannot see a statistically significant difference between these two viscosity grades.

Based on our understanding of the test, we believe there should be only two limits – one for XW-20s and a second for XW-30s – and that

* Industry must also produce demonstration oils (one for each viscosity grade or set of viscosity grades) that can achieve whatever limits become the ILSAC GF-5 standard.
* There is a reference oil capable of passing the Sequence VID, as well as all other tests at the limits agreed to be included in ILSAC GF-5.
* The reference oil results are repeatable and reproducible among different engine test labs.

Another major issue concerns Sequence IIIG WPD (Weighted Piston Deposits). We strongly believe that the current limit provides adequate protection for the vast majority of vehicles on the road. Raising the WPD limit restricts improvements in fuel economy that ILSAC GF-5 oils can achieve. We are also troubled that the Sequence IIIG test continues to be severe and variable in its ability to measure improvements in this parameter. Raising the WPD limit will likely add significant cost without providing significant benefits to end users.

We think that it is time for ILSAC to drop the requirement for the TEOST 33C bench test. Data showing that this test improves turbocharger protection have not been provided to date. We also know that the test has discriminated against certain chemistries that give important benefits for some OEMs. Therefore, test use should be limited to those OEMs that believe it affords a benefit for their engines/turbochargers, and requirements should be provided through the use of OEM specifications.

Infineum is pleased with the progress made with the legacy engine tests to ensure that they can be utilized to define performance requirements of ILSAC GF-5 engine oils. Concerns over the new Sequence VG fuel batch appear to be manageable but only time and experience will confirm this supposition.

Although we fully endorse the new E85 compatibility test, we also feel Industry must ensure that the procedure is adequate and the limits of the test are realistic.

Finally, it is our belief that the technology demonstration period cannot start until Industry agrees on a realistic and achievable starting date, which ensures that all the key tests are final or at least close to being finalized. This includes establishing reasonable targets for the Sequence VID, and also confirming that key bench tests such as the E85 compatibility test and the ROBO test are finalized.


To play it safe, it's important to stick with licensed oils IMO. It's not that small blenders are not capable of making superior oils, but rather not knowing what you are truly getting in the bottle. I have faith in companies like Amsoil, who have been making syn oils for a long time. Some of the really small brands, I am often a bit skeptical of. I'd like to know the oil I am using passed all of the testing required, some of which is rather demanding.
quote:
Originally posted by Buster:
http://www.infineum.com/siteco...ooks/gf5/video4.html

Fran Lockwood on GF-4. "No issues with oil robustness.".

Kirk stop spreading false, exaggerated information. LOL


He can't help it Smile

"To play it safe, it's important to stick with licensed oils IMO"

I agree. Which leaves out swill such as synlube. Going by the testing of bruce381, you really don't know what you will get with that stuff. (A 5w-50 claim that tested at 30 and a 40...)

And Amsoil is API certed.
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Yeah, well, we're more interested in the question above.
To wit: Kirk, explain this then.. PYB already meets/exceeds GF-5 and API SN, although not "officially" certified. Still a conventional oil and not a blend. http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/...601_201003012040.pdf

$25/gal for Lucas vs $11/gal for Super Tech TC-W3 which works just as well....


I read the shell link and noted the Noack volality of almost 15%. Would you put that stuff in you Beamer at 15% volatility? Also,how robust is the oil at wear protection? My guess,not nearly as good as dexos or other group IV oils.

The dexos will have a much lower Noack Volatily than 15%.

Quote
The enhanced robustness of Dexos is categorized by improved low temperature pumpability, reduced volatility limits, tightened limits on weighted piston deposit tests and more aggressive sludge performance. These performance characteristics will require a formulation with additional detergents, dispersants and ashless oxidation inhibitors. Improvements in low temperature performance, volatility and piston deposit control will dictate a base oil mix of predominately Group III synthetic base stocks.


What standard do you want in your engine???

What oil do you already pour into your engine to date.


The NOACK volatility is on par for most major brands of CONVENTIONAL oil. PQI Test Results

I have no problem with that. If it was a GRP III or IV synthetic, then there would be a problem.

Here is a listing of "Private Label" conventionals. Private Label

SuperTech does not look too bad. Some, I would not use in my lawn mower..

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Yeah, well, we're more interested in the question above.
To wit: Kirk, explain this then.. PYB already meets/exceeds GF-5 and API SN, although not "officially" certified. Still a conventional oil and not a blend. http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/...601_201003012040.pdf

$25/gal for Lucas vs $11/gal for Super Tech TC-W3 which works just as well....


I read the shell link and noted the Noack volality of almost 15%. Would you put that stuff in you Beamer at 15% volatility? Also,how robust is the oil at wear protection? My guess,not nearly as good as dexos or other group IV oils.

The dexos will have a much lower Noack Volatily than 15%.

Quote
The enhanced robustness of Dexos is categorized by improved low temperature pumpability, reduced volatility limits, tightened limits on weighted piston deposit tests and more aggressive sludge performance. These performance characteristics will require a formulation with additional detergents, dispersants and ashless oxidation inhibitors. Improvements in low temperature performance, volatility and piston deposit control will dictate a base oil mix of predominately Group III synthetic base stocks.


What standard do you want in your engine???

What oil do you already pour into your engine to date.


Kirk, I guess you are trying to compare apples to oranges. I was stating that conventional oils can meet the GF-5 standard w/o any synthetic base stock.
quote:
"Dave,you said most Dino oils will meet the new GF-5 standard yet overlooked the fact that synthetics will have to be added to achieve that standard."
Because you stated earlier that a more robust additive pack or synthetic blend would be needed. Try reading the full paragraph that I wrote, before jumping to conclusions. Of course a conventional oil is going to have a higher NOACK volatility than a Grp IV or III oil. Two totally different animals.

The NOACK volatility is on par for most major brands of CONVENTIONAL oil. PQI Test Results

I have no problem with that. If it was a GRP III or IV synthetic, then there would be a problem.

Here is a listing of "Private Label" conventionals. Private Label

SuperTech does not look too bad. Some, I would not use in my lawn mower..

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Yeah, well, we're more interested in the question above.
To wit: Kirk, explain this then.. PYB already meets/exceeds GF-5 and API SN, although not "officially" certified. Still a conventional oil and not a blend. http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/...601_201003012040.pdf

$25/gal for Lucas vs $11/gal for Super Tech TC-W3 which works just as well....


I read the shell link and noted the Noack volality of almost 15%. Would you put that stuff in you Beamer at 15% volatility? Also,how robust is the oil at wear protection? My guess,not nearly as good as dexos or other group IV oils.

The dexos will have a much lower Noack Volatily than 15%.

Quote
The enhanced robustness of Dexos is categorized by improved low temperature pumpability, reduced volatility limits, tightened limits on weighted piston deposit tests and more aggressive sludge performance. These performance characteristics will require a formulation with additional detergents, dispersants and ashless oxidation inhibitors. Improvements in low temperature performance, volatility and piston deposit control will dictate a base oil mix of predominately Group III synthetic base stocks.


What standard do you want in your engine???

What oil do you already pour into your engine to date.


The oil meets GF-5. Despite what you claim, it's a conventional oil. The question was can you explain it?

That is the question. Not what I put in the Z4. Especially as I've made that plain. More than once

But, I'll say it again.

ACEA A3/B3. LL-01 if I can get it. And I can. But it *has* to be A3/B3. Not meets or exceeds. It *has* to have the ACEA mark. I'm anal that way. Maybe I'll try the Amsoil Euro. Maybe.

I've used BMW 5w-30, GC 0w-30, Castrol 5w-40, (LL-98 but still A3/B3), and M1 0w-40. Three of them are on the current BMWNA approved oil list.

I trust I won't have to repeat that.

See, I use API/ACEA rated oil. I use quality filters. I don't exceed mfg OCIs.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
See, I use API/ACEA rated oil. I use quality filters. I don't exceed mfg OCI


Same here Trajan. Both my Nissan's spec API/SL-SM and recommend mineral based oil. OCI 3750 Severe or 7500 Normal conditions. I meet in the middle and go 5000 on both vehicles. I am running Penz. Platinum Grp III right now (got it for a good price), but will start using PYB. Reason: Price. I am quite comfortable using a quality, name brand oil that meets the automaker's specs. I can get 12qts PYB for about the same cost as 5qt jug of platinum. I use quality filters too.

Dave
Maybe I've missed it, but do you guys know that there will be 2 different types of Dexos?

Dexos1 for America with emphasis on fuel economy and Dexos2 for Europe with higher limits on SAP levels. US will also get Dexos2, however Europe does not need the Dexos1 as it looks for now.
Dexos1 needs to fulfill the ILSAC norms and Dexos2 needs to fulfill ACEA C3-07. Basically Dexos2 is more or less designed for Diesel engines AND spark ignited engines, where Dexos1 is only for spark ignited engines.

Backwards compatibility:
“dexos1™ replaces GM-LL-A-025, GM6094M and GM4718M.”

“dexos2™ replaces GM-LL-B-025 and GM-LL-A-025.”
quote:
Originally posted by Buster:
http://www.infineum.com/siteco...ooks/gf5/video4.html

Fran Lockwood on GF-4. "No issues with oil robustness.".

Kirk stop spreading false, exaggerated information. LOL


What have I said that is false,or exaggerated. I have only shown what is already out on the net as.........FACT........BUSTER!!!!!!

Perhaps you may not agree with the information or the facts,but that does not make it wrong,or exaggerted. I find your remarks offensive and out of line.

The facts I have presented are plain and simple. New standards are arriving soon and dexos is a higher standard. GF-5 will not be a long drain interval lube. The shell link pasted by dave shows oil with almost 15% noack volatility. Too high for my standards based on what's available. Amsoil for example is about 5-7%. The lube I use is 4%. Why do I want to use motor oil that evaporates out of my engine? What will 15% volatility motor oil do....... during the summer on long hard runs.....evaporate out of your engine......and load up, or maybe even clog your pcv system.......LOL.

What issue do you have with those facts?


Kirk
Last edited by captainkirk
I just don't get the concept of spending $40,000 dollars on a piece of equipment(titan),and then go on to install motor oil that meets a minumum spec just to save 10 bucks. Fuel cost alone are thousands a year. Premium oil is cheap insurance and goes for the maximum standard. Go figure.

Between my Jeep and mustang alone.....that would be $65,000 dollars cost,Plus 2 grand a year for car insurance,and 3 grand a year for fuel with both vehicles. Then, I am supposed to adhere to the logic some are imposing on this board and brag about saving 10 bucks on an oil change using group II oil. I don't think that makes any sense at all when the higher standard lubes don't really cost that much more and give much better protection.....and last longer negating that paltry 10 dollar savings.

I can not see the logic of penny wise and dollar foolish some are taking on this thread with minimum standard oil when the better lubes are scientifically proven better for not much more cost,and may actually save money in the long run.


Do you guys buy cheap everything else on that note as well!

THE PHRASE FOR THE DAY......CHEAP IS UGLY!
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Found this tidbit about dexos and GF-5. asashop.org

Seems to be another way to up the prices. 15% for GF-5 and up to 30% for dexos. Seems to be GM's way of getting extra profit, since they were bailed out? Dexos for sparkers seems to be 0W-XX and the diesels are 5W-XX weight. Mostly Grp III PAO's for dexos.


What a crazy concept,charge more for a better product.....less for a cheaper product!
Who says I am being cheap? I run a decent oil, change every 5K and take the used oil for recycling. My Titan did not cost 40K BTW. 15K, it was a fleet vehicle I bought at auction. I also take almost 8 quarts of oil.
I run Redline oil in the differential and Amsoil in the Tranny. Why spend the extra $ for something I will change out every 6 months or so? Yes, I am old school, and it is my preference. I don't think Pennzoil conventional is "bare minimum". Store brands maybe. The Titan does not perform any differently with Syn or conventional oil.

IMHO, synthetic is great for those who want it, or if the manufacturer specifies it.

I have an additional oil cooler, aux fan, trans filter, and trans cooler for my towing needs. I also installed an oil temp gauge.

I spend 250 a month just for fuel in the Titan.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Who says I am being cheap? I run a decent oil, change every 5K and take the used oil for recycling. My Titan did not cost 40K BTW. 15K, it was a fleet vehicle I bought at auction. I also take almost 8 quarts of oil.
I run Redline oil in the differential and Amsoil in the Tranny. Why spend the extra $ for something I will change out every 6 months or so? Yes, I am old school, and it is my preference. I don't think Pennzoil conventional is "bare minimum". Store brands maybe. The Titan does not perform any differently with Syn or conventional oil.

IMHO, synthetic is great for those who want it, or if the manufacturer specifies it.

I have an additional oil cooler, aux fan, trans filter, and trans cooler for my towing needs. I also installed an oil temp gauge.

I spend 250 a month just for fuel in the Titan.

Dave


You tow with the titan,spend 3 grand a year on fuel, don't use synthetic,live in florida, and tow in all that heat!

I am surprised to see that. Your choice,your vehicle,do what you want.
Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Tirades about Gr III. Yet can't explain all the clean valvetrains et al. Can't explain why a B&S motor is clean and sludge free. Cant' explain why PYB is GF-5 ready even though it's dino.

Even puts up link after link that torpedoes your own positions.

Why not just say what you're bending over backwards not to. You want everyone to use synlube.

I haven't seen anything that says Dave, or other dino users, are on the wrong track. But I've seen the results of not following the mantra of quality oil, filter, mfg or better OCIs.

many of them from Kerk's own links.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Tirades about Gr III. Yet can't explain all the clean valvetrains et al. Can't explain why a B&S motor is clean and sludge free. Cant' explain why PYB is GF-5 ready even though it's dino.

Even puts up link after link that torpedoes your own positions.

Why not just say what you're bending over backwards not to. You want everyone to use synlube.

I haven't seen anything that says Dave, or other dino users, are on the wrong track. But I've seen the results of not following the mantra of quality oil, filter, mfg or better OCIs.

many of them from Kerk's own links.


No tirades here trajen.........just the facts.........and you don't like them......OH WELL!!
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Tirades about Gr III. Yet can't explain all the clean valvetrains et al. Can't explain why a B&S motor is clean and sludge free. Cant' explain why PYB is GF-5 ready even though it's dino.

Even puts up link after link that torpedoes your own positions.

Why not just say what you're bending over backwards not to. You want everyone to use synlube.

I haven't seen anything that says Dave, or other dino users, are on the wrong track. But I've seen the results of not following the mantra of quality oil, filter, mfg or better OCIs.

many of them from Kerk's own links.


Trojan....why do yoouuuuu keep on bringing up synlube,and no one else does???? However the person I care most about using the oil you like to bring up so much..... is.....me....myself.......and I. Your loss!

I already explained why no sludge in a mower engine waaaayyyy back.......NO emission controls,runs hot and burns off moisture,no short trips,incomplete warmups etc.

However,the fact that an air cooled mower engine runs hot has been known to cause issues such as, hot sludging/coking,especially during long runs,and that's why I run synthetic in all my engines period.

http://bobistheoilguy.com/foru...owflat&Number=486820


Another reason why I put synthetic in all my small equipment,and use several fuel additive products at once. Never have any issues,including the first start in spring.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25936782/

http://www.ehow.com/how_601904...stratton-engine.html
Last edited by captainkirk
Even Porshe acknowleges that todays oils are lacking in protection.. Just look

Many Porsche repair shops have acknowledged that these newest SM and CJ-4 motor oils are not sufficient for protecting any Porsche engine, including newer water-cooled ones. With longevity and the protection of vital engine components in mind, many shops are recommending non-approved motorcycle or racing oils, or the addition of oil supplements at every oil change, for their higher levels of protection. On newer water-cooled engines where Mobil 1 0w40 is recommended, a simple change to an oil with CJ-4 rating or preferably an oil with SL or CI-4 rating as well as a viscosity of 5w40 rather than 0w40 are two changes that can be done in addition to more frequent oil changes to ensure longevity of newer engines.


The whole link......explain this trajen.........

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Who says I am being cheap? I run a decent oil, change every 5K and take the used oil for recycling. My Titan did not cost 40K BTW. 15K, it was a fleet vehicle I bought at auction. I also take almost 8 quarts of oil.
I run Redline oil in the differential and Amsoil in the Tranny. Why spend the extra $ for something I will change out every 6 months or so? Yes, I am old school, and it is my preference. I don't think Pennzoil conventional is "bare minimum". Store brands maybe. The Titan does not perform any differently with Syn or conventional oil.

IMHO, synthetic is great for those who want it, or if the manufacturer specifies it.

I have an additional oil cooler, aux fan, trans filter, and trans cooler for my towing needs. I also installed an oil temp gauge.

I spend 250 a month just for fuel in the Titan.

Dave


You tow with the titan,spend 3 grand a year on fuel, don't use synthetic,live in florida, and tow in all that heat!

I am surprised to see that. Your choice,your vehicle,do what you want.


And it is obvious you don't read all the way through everyone's posts, before posting your quips. I am running Pennzoil Platinum in both my Nissans right now. Last time I checked it was a PAO synthetic Grp III. I am considering going back to conventional, once I get through my stash of Platinum (about 3 more changes). Nissan engineers recommend conventional oil and I figure they know more than I do about what to run in the engine they designed.

I have not made the decision yet.

I would be more worried about my engine being damaged by ethanol in the fuel, over what oil I use. Mainly on the Altima as it is not flex capable. Ethanol eats and corrodes O rings, gaskets, injector components, fuel pumps, etc. that is going to be the engine killer, not so much as lubricants.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Who says I am being cheap? I run a decent oil, change every 5K and take the used oil for recycling. My Titan did not cost 40K BTW. 15K, it was a fleet vehicle I bought at auction. I also take almost 8 quarts of oil.
I run Redline oil in the differential and Amsoil in the Tranny. Why spend the extra $ for something I will change out every 6 months or so? Yes, I am old school, and it is my preference. I don't think Pennzoil conventional is "bare minimum". Store brands maybe. The Titan does not perform any differently with Syn or conventional oil.


Dave.......According to your own words.......just a few months ago.......you stated your truck/titan does run better/cooler with synthetic oil.......just wanted to remind you of what you said. Did something change from only February of this year when your truck ran cooler/better with synthetic oil?

Here is your link

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1775510
Dave...I am starting to question your credibilty with yet another link that tells another story about your assertions of no sludge.......including no lawnmower sludge.

To think you actually started another thread on this forum showing how clean your mower engine was, showed no sludge, and dino/mineral oil was just fine and was all the mower ever saw. That apparently wasn't truth at all. BIG LIE IN FACT.

What in the world is this all about then??? This shows a different """story"""

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1829761


Just to remind everyone of your other, very different "story"

https://forums.noria.com/eve/fo...16604995&m=242104424


When connecting the Dots of all your story telling.................it's very disturbing indeed why someone would lie like that and make up all those stories and twist/distort/fabricate whatever information existed or not, Just to avoid admitting synthetic oil is better???

Talk about issues. Get back on your meds....NOW SIR!!!
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Dave...I am starting to question your credibilty with yet another link that tells another story about your assertions of no sludge.......including no lawnmower sludge.

To think you actually started another thread on this forum showing how clean your mower engine was and showed no sludge and dino oil was just fine.

What in the world is this all about then???

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1829761


Just to remind everyone of your other, very different "story"

https://forums.noria.com/eve/fo...16604995&m=242104424


You have no room to question the credibility of anyone.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Dave...I am starting to question your credibilty with yet another link that tells another story about your assertions of no sludge.......including no lawnmower sludge.

To think you actually started another thread on this forum showing how clean your mower engine was and showed no sludge and dino oil was just fine. That wasn't exactly the whole true story....was it????

What in the world is this very different story all about then??? Dave,you are not being very candid...are you??

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1829761


Just to remind everyone of your other, very different "story"

https://forums.noria.com/eve/fo...16604995&m=242104424


You have no room to question the credibility of anyone.


You guys have some strange issues now that I have blown the lid off whatever agenda you have.

I have always been a totally straight shooter......just the facts.

The facts aren't looking to good revealing all of Dave's story telling and now outright lies and fabrication.

WOW..........THE TRUTH FINALLY COMES OUT!!!

Dave..........what gives???

Flush out your mower engine with chemicals(MMO,etc).. and.......then post pictures showing how clean it is saying you used nothing but cheap/dino/mineral oil as if the oil kept it clean all along by itself....just to give the false impression using cheap oil works fine,instead of synthetic. That's just nuts.

Dave(trajen),your previous posts/lies now proves all along what I was talking about regarding sludge being caused from cheap oil that you tried to hide all this time, and why would you do that.!!

It looks to me.......like..........Trajen=Deltona_Dave!!!
Last edited by captainkirk
This is Deltona_dave/trajens.......""""STORY"""""


I have an 8 year old Craftsman (AYP) heavy duty lawn tractor that is developing some sludge/varnish. Last season, it was filled with Rotella-T 15W-40 HDEO. Well, it don't like thick oil. It burned it at about 8 oz. per week (10-12 hours). Now that I am a BITOG'er, I want to clean her up and thought about this method:

Run PP for a month or Ultra, then fill with GC (seems to be used in a lot of OPE around here). I have a couple of B&S filters (a lot of money for a dinky filter), but after searching, I have found cheaper alternatives (super techs, purolators, etc) Wix, Fram, and OEM are just way pricey for a monthly change out. I am just concerned that the alternatives have higher bypass pressures than OEM (12-14 vs 8 for OE). Think the Briggs will care?

Here in Central Florida, Mowing season is 6 months, and from May-Sept, temps are close to 100 with 90% humidity! Tough on air cooled engines.

Any suggestions on oil selection or filters?

I want to keep this thing running as long as I can, as it is a good mower and tugger for a cart, aerator, and spreader.

Thanks,
Dave


AND NOW,FROM THE SAME PERSON(DELTONA_DAVE)...........A VERY DIFFERENT """STORY"""..........VERY STRANGE INDEED....VERY TELLING TO SAY THE LEAST

I just pulled the rocker covers on my 2002 Craftsman Riding Mower/tractor (made by American yard Products AYP). Engine is a B&S 21.5 HP vertical shaft. Engine has 1200 plus hours on it. Never saw Synthetic OCI, except for one Mobil 1 top off. This old girl has had B&S oil factory fill, AAP 20w-50, GTX, Warren convenience store oil, etc. All has met API SL minimum. Last change was Rotella 15W-40. Current fill is Delvac 1300. Filters were either B&S or MotorCraft 400S.
Here is a link of the engine.

Remember, this is an air cooled Briggs Intek V-twin full pressure lube. It sees 25+ hours a month in very dusty conditions.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1861000#Post1861000

https://forums.noria.com/eve/fo...16604995/m/242104424


Dave
Last edited by captainkirk
Well.....after connecting the dots/stories/lies/distortions/.....it's easy to see that

TRAJEN=DELTONA_DAVE


Very,Very disturbing.

Just to avoid admitting that synthetic oil is better than mineral oil he would go to all that trouble to make up all those stories. That is bizarre!!

Like I said......just the facts!! They never lie!!


Now,we finally will have a professional thread.......Whew!!!


Kirk
Trajen/nuke/dave/etc.etc...........Get lost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're Busted as a liar for the whole world to see!!!

THIS IS A PROFESSIONAL FORUM.......YOU ARE NOT!!!!!


I post only the facts and the truth.....that's how I caught you and your lies......with the facts!!!! The facts never lie........only you do!!!! Now we have proof of who you are,and that you are a liar!!!


By the way.........synthetic oil is better!!! Dino/mineral causes sludge...even in mower engines...... The facts say so!!



Kirk
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Who says I am being cheap? I run a decent oil, change every 5K and take the used oil for recycling. My Titan did not cost 40K BTW. 15K, it was a fleet vehicle I bought at auction. I also take almost 8 quarts of oil.
I run Redline oil in the differential and Amsoil in the Tranny. Why spend the extra $ for something I will change out every 6 months or so? Yes, I am old school, and it is my preference. I don't think Pennzoil conventional is "bare minimum". Store brands maybe. The Titan does not perform any differently with Syn or conventional oil.


Dave.......According to your own words.......just a few months ago.......you stated your truck/titan does run better/cooler with synthetic oil.......just wanted to remind you of what you said. Did something change from only February of this year when your truck ran cooler/better with synthetic oil?

Here is your link

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1775510


Did you not read that I was using Mobil 1 before switching to Pennzoil Platinum? Last I heard, Mobil 1 was a synthetic oil... I started using Platinum due to the fact that I was given several cases of it. Mobil 1 made my top end a little noisy. Yes, the coolant temp went down a little, not much with platinum.

No, I am not Trajan/nuke. I am me.

About the Mower. Yes, in my first post, I had a little varnish on the dipstick, and was concerned that i was getting some sludge. I had not pulled the valve covers off at that time. I went with some of the board posters suggestions to try a motorcraft filter and maybe a different HDEO. I also asked if I should go with a synthetic oil or use an additive. At least over there, I can ask a question and do not get bashed over it.

I never used an engine flush, nor a synthetic oil, except for a top-off one time. The Delvac 1300 that is in it now seems to have cleaned the little bit of varnish that was there to a point. It still uses oil, not as much, but still have to top off about every 8 hours of use. BTW, there still is some bits of varnish on the rocker nuts, just not visible in the pics. The B&S engine is not spotless, but clean enough. I still need to pull the heads and de-carbon the pistons/combustion chambers.

You are the one that states you use Synlube in your vehicles. Does it meet Motorcraft and Daimler Chrysler specs? Hope it does if you need power train warranty claims.

You can can discredit me, that's fine. I am human, I make mistakes and forget things (I am getting old).

I still work on over 250 CVPI's for the Sheriff's Office, that are assigned to patrol division. They only see conventional oil changes every 5K. After 5 years of service and an average of 100K on the Odo, the engine camshafts are still clean.

Dave. Not Trajan or anyone else.
Also,
No where did I say that Conventional was better than Synthetic. My whole point is that whatever oil one chooses to use will work fine, as long as it meets/exceeds what the manufacturer recommends and is changed at proper intervals.

Most oil related problems are due to the fact that owners use improper oil, or do not change when recommended.

The point of this topic was about GF-5 standard. Conventionals will be able to meet that standard.

Is that wrong?

Bash away Kirk.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Trajen/nuke/dave/etc.etc...........Get lost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're Busted as a liar for the whole world to see!!!

THIS IS A PROFESSIONAL FORUM.......YOU ARE NOT!!!!!


I post only the facts and the truth.....that's how I caught you and your lies......with the facts!!!! The facts never lie........only you do!!!! Now we have proof of who you are,and that you are a liar!!!


By the way.........synthetic oil is better!!! Dino/mineral causes sludge...even in mower engines...... The facts say so!!



Kirk

So when are you going to act like it is?

No one but you barely reads a post before replying.

No one but you posts links that fail to support a position.

No one but you gets bent out of shape when they're called on called on it.

No one but you fails to understand that this board is not made of sychophants.

No one but you continues to support a hopeless position.

No one but you makes blanket statements that just don't hold up.

No one but you accuses those who dare to not treat your pronouncements as sacrosant of posting under different names.

No one but you is calling people liars because they don't take what you've been posting as the Holy Grail.

You really are pathetic. Especially when it comes to the fact of spreading false allegations when you "facts" are refuted again and again.

Your links:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1504155&page=1

Want to explain why is it the oil's fault when the idiot went 19,000 miles on 5w30 in a diesel with EGR?

From one of your google bombs :http://www.wynns.co.nz/show-article.php?id=57

A long list of causes that refute your oil claim.

http://www.consumerreports.org...e/overview/index.htm

Once again, another of your "facts" refuted. Notice the long list of sludgers. I noticed that you never answered why none of my engines never sludged.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1498040

That link you declared was about sludge. And yet, the word is not there.

Here's one of my favorite. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1653077

Here he claims it's the oil. And says "big oil" gets sued. (Despite his claim that they don't.)

But if you read through it, not only is there no lawsuit, but Nissan picks up the tab for the repair. Not something you would do if it wasn't your fault.

Just a small sample of your repeated nonsensical claims.

As I said, no room to question someone elses's credibility.
Last edited by trajan
When I bought my Titan from auction, it had been serviced, with bulk oil, presumably dino. I ran that for about 3K and it was fine. I changed to Mobil-1 10w-30 and ran for 7500 miles. I did notice more valve train noise (others have posted similar stories with M-1). I was given several cases and jugs of Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 and am using it now. The valve train is quieter and for some reason, the coolant temp gauge reads slightly cooler. Nissan specs 5w-30, 10w-30, and 10w-40 weight oils. The thicker for above 32 degrees. The 5w seems fine. I will use the Platinum until my stash runs out. I am still considering using conventional later on.

Since I do tow, I added a larger oil cooler and a larger pusher fan (manual switch) about a month ago. Used to hold about 6 1/2 quarts, now almost 8 with filter.

Dave
The manual states that towing falls under severe service. I have the towing package (gearing, trans cooler, extendable mirrors, trans temp gauge, aux cooling fan, etc). I am on TitanTalk from time to time and they have been helpful with issues.

The stock auxiliary fan never worked, so I bought a 16" pusher online. It came with a thermostat, but I just wired a switch to run it when needed.

I had several passenger cars, but keep going back to a truck. Nothing beats being able to toss lumber, fertilizer, big items, etc., in the back.

The Titan is nice, fast, and has plenty of pulling power, but the fit/finish is lacking. I have squeaks, rattles, little things that break. Ford F-series definitely ride better, but have less power. Their fit and finish is good too. When the Titan blows up/falls apart, I will probably get another F-series.

Dave
If you towed all the time, I'd probably give the nod to synth oil. But if the manual says you can use dino all the time, I couldn't argue with it.

Depends on your comfort level.

I would think the tow package is a benefit even if you don't tow a great deal. And that oil cooler you added doesn't hurt any.

I'm thinking the next car I get will be a State Police one. Preferably a Charger. (But all the SP in PA that I've seen are Crown Vics.)

Could of used a truck the other day. Looked silly carrying a table home in the front seat with the top down.....
Trajan,
You could always get a small utility trailer. Harbor Freight has some small collapsible ones for about $200. DOT approved and about 4x8 (the size of a standard sheet of plywood). You would just have to buy a 3/4" sheet of PT ply for the flooring. It will only hold about 900-1000 lbs, but can be handy. I have one, but when it is empty, tends to bounce around.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Trajan,
You could always get a small utility trailer. Harbor Freight has some small collapsible ones for about $200. DOT approved and about 4x8 (the size of a standard sheet of plywood). You would just have to buy a 3/4" sheet of PT ply for the flooring. It will only hold about 900-1000 lbs, but can be handy. I have one, but when it is empty, tends to bounce around.

Dave


Not a bad idea, but it would take some fabricating on my end for a hitch. It would have to go under the rear cover.

I've seen it on a Z3. I've read you can get one for a 3, don't know about the 4.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/foru...207&highlight=towing
Last edited by trajan
quote:
The point of this topic was about GF-5 standard. Conventionals will be able to meet that standard.



Dave....define conventional oil. Do you mean group II ??

I doubt very much that conventional oil will meet the GF-5 spec without the use of synthetic oil in the mix. Even if some product does manage to arrive that is totally conventional but claims to meet the GF-5 standard,I think it will have issues compared to a premium group III,or my preference.....Group IV. My concern with conventional oil is.. too high noack volatility,oil film sheering,oxidation,oil film strength too weak,and so forth.

When dexos hits,it will put GF-5 at the bottom. The pecking order will be something like this.....GF-5(the lowest minimal standard).......DEXOS(GROUP III)(middle standard).....and the best being....Group IV(the highest standard) as usual.

Your car,your engine,your investment,your money,your choice.

Kirk
Last edited by captainkirk
Kirk, what oil meets IV? I am presuming Mobil-1 but they keep it a "secret" and some have mentioned it is a grp III.

GF-5 can be met with conventional, but dexos will require grp III pao, from what I can interpret.

I am still running a grp III (penz. platinum) for a while. I am considering, but not committed to grp II (PYB).

I am not here to bash, argue, belittle, or smackdown anyone. I would like to have a civil discussion with anyone. I treat and talk to people the same way they talk to me.

Fair Shake?

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Kirk, what oil meets IV? I am presuming Mobil-1 but they keep it a "secret" and some have mentioned it is a grp III.

GF-5 can be met with conventional, but dexos will require grp III pao, from what I can interpret.

I am still running a grp III (penz. platinum) for a while. I am considering, but not committed to grp II (PYB).

I am not here to bash, argue, belittle, or smackdown anyone. I would like to have a civil discussion with anyone. I treat and talk to people the same way they talk to me.

Fair Shake?

Dave


Fair Shake...you got it.

Kirk
Here are photos of a Crown Vic Police Interceptor. 100K + on odometer (2005) K-9 vehicle. OCI 3-4K (vehicle was never shut off during duty hours, due to the dog needing A/C.

Oil filler look down.
[URL= oil filler tube[/URL]

Engine Bay Pic [URL= ]engine Bay[/URL]

This CVPI was only run on conventional oil. Ford Modular engines are stout and can handle abuse. Some varnish and a little goop forming on rockers.
Bay clean, as it was getting ready for auction.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Come up with an explaination for why PYB meets GF-5 even though it's dino?

Really is a shame that you can't comprehend that anyone would disagree with you.

Must be congenital. Following your logic, you, annie, inhaliburton, (surprised neither have stuck their useless beaks in.), and miro are one and the same.


Useless beaks, eh? Nice talk.

Where's that neighbour of yours with the sludger caused by Synlube?

Well?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Trajen/nuke/dave/etc.etc...........Get lost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're Busted as a liar for the whole world to see!!!

THIS IS A PROFESSIONAL FORUM.......YOU ARE NOT!!!!!


I post only the facts and the truth.....that's how I caught you and your lies......with the facts!!!! The facts never lie........only you do!!!! Now we have proof of who you are,and that you are a liar!!!


By the way.........synthetic oil is better!!! Dino/mineral causes sludge...even in mower engines...... The facts say so!

Just to finish the weirdness from you once and for all I have requested the MODERATOR post on this thread who the trolls are that have multiple identities...It will be nice when the RESIDENT TROLLS: Inhaliburton, Kirk, and good ol' Annie, are exposed once and for all, for what they are known to be just; INTERNET TROLLS
I kind of think that Dexos will lead to problems.

Why?

Once your 2011 is out of warranty, what are the odds the average person is going to go to a dealer to get the oil.

They'll do what most do. Go to Iffy Libe. And when problems start to come up, you'll see some people do the usual "It's the oil's fault" speil instead of putting the blame where it belongs. The idiot car owners.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
I kind of think that Dexos will lead to problems.

Why?

Once your 2011 is out of warranty, what are the odds the average person is going to go to a dealer to get the oil.

They'll do what most do. Go to Iffy Libe. And when problems start to come up, you'll see some people do the usual "It's the oil's fault" speil instead of putting the blame where it belongs. The idiot car owners.


Trajan, I give credit where credit is due. You are exactly right.
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Miro/Inhaliburton/Kirk,

You are what in your late fifties, early sixties?

I'm sure your parents would be proud to know that their 'grown son' is nothing but an 'internet troll'.

Oh thats right you took care of that parent thing....problem solved huh?


For your own good, I hope you didn't press the "Report This Post" button.
It was already pressed by someone else, and the moderator reponded...You don't read so good do you...You have accused 3 people here of being one poster...We need to find out who you are as well...I have nothing to hide, as your plainly wrong as usual.

If I do choose to report your posts...Then quit posting your usual crud...You can always go to the other site...oh thats right you were banned their as well, for the same behaviour...Cry me a river. It's real easy Miro you see, YOUR THE ONE WITH THE PROBLEM...And your past history here, and on other sites spells out that 'FACT'.

It would be great to have a well thought out civil discussion. I don't seem to have an issue with anyone else...I believe all others are probably about the same. With you though we have a 5 year history of the same trollish behaviour under different guises as well. Perhaps Miro, you need a break from these sites, as you seem to be cracking from the strain...Or perhaps medication, to control the mental spasms.
Last edited by nucleardawg
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
I kind of think that Dexos will lead to problems.

Why?

Once your 2011 is out of warranty, what are the odds the average person is going to go to a dealer to get the oil.

They'll do what most do. Go to Iffy Libe. And when problems start to come up, you'll see some people do the usual "It's the oil's fault" speil instead of putting the blame where it belongs. The idiot car owners.



Trajen.......Wow!!!........you're finally acknowledging what I have been saying all along........bulk oil causes issues with car engines. Took you long enough for you to come around and admit that historical fact!

Moreover, iffy lube installing the wrong oil as you state...........would make iffy lube the idiot and not the motorists!!.......Gee, that's never happened before!

But you are correct,if bulk oil is installed instead of dexos motor oil(dexos beats GF-5 oil standard),there will be issues with those engines just like in the past......even if the bulk oil is changed every 2,000 miles. The bulk oil still won't match the performance of dexos.

However,it's already in the works for the dexos to be sold everywhere over time,so I suspect years from now when warranties run out.......even 'iffy lube' will have it in stock. I don't see very many issues the way you are claiming,otherwise, iffy lube will be replacing many engines.......they are good at that I am told,so you could be correct in that regard!

Kirk
If you think you are installing the correct oil/grade/viscosity in your car..........think again.

Quote

Even if you select what you think is the OEM
required viscosity, you could be wrong. GM 5W-30 viscosity approval is different than SAE 5W-30 viscosity approval. The GM approval requires better low temperature pumping viscosity than SAE. And, a BMW approved 5W-30 is required to be thicker at high temperature than the SAE 10W-40 requirement. If you don’t understand the OEM proprietary and ACEA oil service rating systems, you won’t know the true viscosity of most oil products.

The whole link

http://diagnosticnews.com/tech...-lubrication-basics/

Notice the mention of 5w-30 being not as thick,but even thicker than 10w-40 for BMW. So much for all those against thick oil.

Looks like a premium super synthetic of 5w-50 is just about perfect if you go by the European BMW spec.

All those skeptics making fun of 'thick oil' (5w-50 / 100% synthetic oil) should re-think that belief.



Kirk
Last edited by captainkirk
This is the very reason why new standard are on the way.

<<<The OEM proprietary ratings are significantly more stringent than anything API or ILSAC has to offer. API and ILSAC have failed to respond to the OEMs need for better lubricants. OEM proprietary approval and/or ACEA approval is required to insure proper protection to a rapidly growing number of vehicles.>>>>>>

This above statement is exactly what I am talking about. The minimum standard is simply not good enough,never really was, and the minimum oil standard led to most of those sludged up damaged engines that wound up burning the motorists bank accounts or caused the law suits.........total losses......Billions!

Who lost...........YOU DID,not big oil,not even the OEM. The consumer always losses,and never gets bailed out.

The OEMS are fed up with the politics with oil lube standards and now are doing something about it proactively...........creating a much better lube standard for those engines.

Who wins..........the consumer....that would be YOU.

How do you win?.......far less oil changes,longer engine life,less/or far fewer oil/lube issues,no sludge,no excess wear,less warranty claims,lower cost,etc,etc.etc.

Kirk
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
You know Miro some people could construe the "for your own good" as a threat to my well being.. If that happens Miro, well I will be reporting this post to the mods....Just so their is no mis-understanding in the future.


Your're as crazy as a bag of hammers. What grade are you in?


Not what grade.........what CRAZY WARD!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
I kind of think that Dexos will lead to problems.

Why?

Once your 2011 is out of warranty, what are the odds the average person is going to go to a dealer to get the oil.

They'll do what most do. Go to Iffy Libe. And when problems start to come up, you'll see some people do the usual "It's the oil's fault" speil instead of putting the blame where it belongs. The idiot car owners.



Trajen.......Wow!!!........you're finally acknowledging what I have been saying all along........bulk oil causes issues with car engines.


No, what you've been saying all along is that oil, what you call inferior oil, that isn't group IV/V/swilllube is what causes problems. And you've been proven wrong time and time again.

And yes, swill lube 4 life causes sludge too. Like in a certain Murano owned by some guy named budman..

Good Lord son, your own links, posted time and time again, show that it's poor engine design/owner stupidity that causes sludge.

(it's my understanding that most dealers use bulk oil too.)

As you missed it, I'll spell it out for you. When I said some people will cry "It's the oil's fault", I meant YOU.

Because you do blame the oil. You've claimed the class action suits over sludge were because of oil. Yet have failed to show that they were aimed at the oil companies.

Links, that I've pointed out again and again, that you claimed were about sludge caused by oil, were debunked by me. Or anyone who bothered to read them. (Nissan payed for an rngine repair, one you blamed the oil for? Or the idiot who went 19K miles in his Ford diesel with the wrong oil, and you blamed the oil, not the owner?)

Let me make it clear. Dexos will cause problems because people will go to a lube change place, or go buy cheaper from a retail store. Most people don't know or care to know the difference between SA and SM.

BTW, I've used Iffy Lube. Never had a problem. I stopped when they annoyed me.

They will post on various boards such as this. And whine and moan about how crappy a UOA is. Or how their valve train looks a mess.

And people such as you will crow and blame the oil. Never once reading far enough to see that they ran the oil way over the OCI. Or used a CE oil in a motor calling for CH-4.

As if it's never the owner's fault.

Any clearer now?
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Like in a certain Murano owned by some guy named budman..



Trajan....There you go again bringing up synlube. You must love the stuff. I spoke to budman and he told me that the Murano had many,many issues,so he traded it in.

He purchased a brand new saturn and installed synlube in that car too,and installed it in his other car as well. Now why would he do that? Because he knows it's very good oil,like I do.

<<<This is budman posting about the saturn
This sample came from MY REAL car (Saturn) that had 20,xxx miles on it at time of sample. In another thread somewhere on this forum I posted pictures of me installing synlube back in early 2008 when I bought the car and it had 1149 miles on it (i have pic of odometer at the time as well on my PC). It has gone through two filter changes since then as well as topping up with their ADD oil when needed. 19,011 miles on this sample and more everyday since it is still in my car.>>>>

No sludge here as well also from budman.............doesn't get any better than this..My cars also look just like the photos in the link below.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...1842031&#Post1842031

Budman's remarks:

Engine runs great, uses about 1/8 qt of oil per year (short trips probably most of it) and from what I can see, looks clean inside the fill hole.
I have tried to remain as neutral as possible and not take sides. I am not here to try to convince anyone to use or not use it but rather give an objective report as best I can. The Murano, I felt, had nothing to do with my choice of oil. It was cursed with issues to the point even with dino in it, was causing dealer visits. That is why I was willing to try Synlube again for my two new cars.


NO sludge in any of my cars now pushing 10 years with said lube you love to keep bringing up,over,and over again.

Kirk
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
I stopped when they annoyed me.

quote:
They will post on various boards and whine about how their engine runs like crap, and people like you will blame the oil. Not the people who use the wrong oil.

Any clearer now?


No,Trajan... you are never clear, quite frankly.

If the old/other standards were all so good trajan,all those years like so many have claimed all that time with each and every standard.......then why all the newer better standards addressing all the issues with the older standards?

Some of you posters will use cheap oil,change it every 1 or 2,000 miles. Discuss the use of engine flushes on other threads/sites to clean up the engine.......and then....

Flush out those engines with cleaners/solvents such as,MMO,A-RX,RIS.,KEROSENE,change oil,continue with chemical cleaners and flushes over and over, and then.......take a picture of a very clean valve train and say.........."cheap oil works for me"..... failing to mention all the steps/measures/cleaners taken to keep the engine clean giving a false impression/lie that dino/mineral oil did all the work.......what a joke!!!! That stuff is way old school 30 years ago and beyond!

Why not just use group IV synthetic?......it's cheaper and easier in the long,better for the engine,and way better for the environment.
It must be frustrating. No auto maker uses unrated, unproven oil in their vehicles.

Must be frustrating that most of them use dino oil for their low/mid range vehicles.

Must be frustrating that, for example, Porsche factory fills with Mobil 1. BMW with Castrol, or Ferarri uses Shell.

Must be galling that despite your claims, dino or Grp III oils are being used by thousands upon thousands of vehicles with no problems.
I'm thinking it's time for more 'links' that will show the 'facts' about the horrors of using group III oils.

Of course the links will not show anything as usual. Funny how even though evreything it posts fails to backup it's claims...It just can't admit it's wrong.

Some people have that as a personal failure. Kinda funny and sad at the same time.
Group II bulk oil used by many dealers and lube chains...Those are oils I just don't use in my vehicles...Though admittedly many do...vehicle owners enticed in by the $10-15 oil change, who after having it changed forget about ever checking it for a year.

The biggest cause of premature engine wear is owner neglect. For the most part even the cheaper oils will work with reasonable OCI. The owner needs to keep up on all facets of maintenance. A cheap little PCV causes how many problems? Leaking gaskets ignored, and the owner opting to just periodically fill the radiator.

Oil changes are just one facet of vehicle care...Important yes, but to often other facets are ignored, and the end result is sludge, with the uninformed naturally blaming the oil.

In our disposeable go go society, people either don't care about vehicle maintenance, or plead ignorant, and pay someone to do the job. A new car is about the second most expensive item most of us will purchase. I don't like to give up my hard earned cash, evry 5-7 years for a new car, so I spend the time to know the vehicle, and take care of it properly in all aspects.
Last edited by nucleardawg
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Group II bulk oil used by many dealers and lube chains...Those are oils I just don't use in my vehicles...Though admittedly many do...vehicle owners enticed in by the $10-15 oil change, who after having it changed forget about ever checking it for a year.

The biggest cause of premature engine wear is owner neglect. For the most part even the cheaper oils will work with reasonable OCI. The owner needs to keep up on all facets of maintenance. A cheap little PCV causes how many problems? Leaking gaskets ignored, and the owner opting to just periodically fill the radiator.

Oil changes are just one facet of vehicle care...Important yes, but to often other facets are ignored, and we end up with the result of sludge, with the uninformed naturally blaming the oil.


Like these? A Kirk produced link:

Industry experts say modern engines are even more prone to sludge build up than older ones. So what’s the cause, and why is it making a comeback?

There are several key reasons.

Crankcase Ventilation.
Oil vapour and combustion gasses must be removed, usually by being channelled through the combustion process.
If these gasses are not disposed of efficiently, sludge will form. Some modern breather systems are more successful than others.

Temperature.
Changes to the positioning of the Catalytic Converter have led to changes in temperature, hot and cold spots, in and around the engine. Hot spots bake oil, cold spots cause acid and sludge.

Crankcase Acidity.
Modern fuels produce much more acid when burnt. A proportion of this acidity enters the crankcase. Experts say that long term engine wear is now as likely to be down to acidity as friction.

Tighter Tolerances.
Engines are no longer manufactured down to Thousandths but Microns. Tighter tolerances mean engines are
using less oil, and as a result customers fail to check levels and miss oil changes

Poor Maintenance.
Drivers who miss recommended oil changes are without doubt contributing to the problem. Lease vehicle drivers especially are quoted as being among the worst for neglecting DIY level checks.

City Driving.
Constant stop/start city driving accelerates sludge formation. Drivers who spend most of their time in urban traffic should be advised to book oil change services more regularly.

Don't see any blame on oil there either.
Trajan I hadn't thought about the wears and tears of stop and go city driving. In the Seattle area traffic is a nightmare. I can't remember the exact figure but the amount of time sitting in traffic jams around here is truly horrendous.

A neglected cooling system is just ripe for wrecking havoc on an engine.

It's come to the point I try to drive my old Ford Ranger, for regular commuting, and save my
fun vehicles for their proper time.

I recently purchased a 75 Corvette from a friend. The first thing I did was swap out the fluids in the car, and just do an inspection. It's 35 years old and runs like a top. My 18 year old son has already called dibs on it, and stated he would like to pass it on to his son as well.

I let him know the 'old man' ain't leaving this earth that quick.
75 Vette.... Nice toy.

I'm about 100 yds from an expressway. Otherwise, I can go miles and miles before I even see a traffic light.

So my oil gets nice and warm. No sludge worries using my Grp III oil.

111K, and it still rips through the gears like a throughbread. Really fun when you hit the sport button.

Yeah, right. A clunker. Sure Miro. Would be if I used unrated poo like synlube.
Since the dexos spec. will be for GM vehicles and primarily a Group III oil, they are going to have a hard time denying warranty claims for oil-related failures. As has been stated before, most people will buy a new GM, then when the OLM kicks in, they will go to iffy lube/greasy monkey, a dealer (if they can find one), or an independent. Most places will put in bulk oil.

Here in Central Fl, GM dealerships are scarce. I would have to drive to Daytona Beach (30 minutes) or to Orlando (about an hour). At least our local Lincoln Mercury dealer will work on other makes. Glad I have Nissans. There is a dealer about 5 minutes away from the office.

I think the purpose of extending OCI's make eco-sense, etc. I am running a grp III oil, but am conservative and change every 5K. I like crawling under my car and truck. I can see how everything is holding up. I check the suspension, rotate the tires, check for leaks. I check the oil level at least once a week.

Lovebug season is here, so I will probably be opening the hood more often now. Gotta hose out the bugs from the radiator and other cooler fins. Smile

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Refresh my memory you drive a Z4? If so that is a beast of modern machinery with beautiful styling to match.

The motors produced by BMW can lay down some serious horsepower, with handling to match. Sporty but also refined and surefooted.

To pollute the engine with swill like Synlube...Well that would be a syn.


A 2004 Z4 3.0L with 225hp. (The last year for that rating IIRC. When the 3.0si came out, it dropped to 215.)

The gearing is nice. At 2K rpm, multiply your gear by 10 and that's your mph.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
It must be frustrating. No auto maker uses unrated, unproven oil in their vehicles.

Must be frustrating that most of them use dino oil for their low/mid range vehicles.

Must be frustrating that, for example, Porsche factory fills with Mobil 1. BMW with Castrol, or Ferarri uses Shell.

Must be galling that despite your claims, dino or Grp III oils are being used by thousands upon thousands of vehicles with no problems.


The only people frustrated and galled as you say are the ones with engine issues,such as excess wear, excess sludge,and even ruined engines that need replacement.

However,I am quite delighted,and not the least bit frustrated as you claim...because my engines are on a strict diet of premium synthetic oil and all run perfect.

This is a pasted section of a link from hughes engine re-builders discussing all the issues with modern day lubes and how even the Japanese are way ahead and we are "trying" to catch up with their lubricant technology,not to mention the European standard as well.

quote

<<<<The Japanese have better (slicker) oils that still protect flat tappet cams, they are good enough
that they can even improve fuel mileage and protect that cadillac thing. With all the pressures from the environmentalists on our so-called elected representatives in Congress, along with $3.00 a gallon gasoline, t he oil companies are doing lots of research on improving oils to catch up with the Japanese . One of the additives that may prove to be the answer is called molybdenum carbamate. This moly is soluble so it mixes with the oil and stays in suspension. It is very slippery like its cousin the gray stuff and it actually sticks to, or plates up, on metal parts as opposed to zinc phosphate, that does not stick to the metal. In the start and stop situations that our cars go through it is actually better than zinc phosphate. Some race only oils may have super high amounts of the zinc phosphate that is fine for a 500-mile race where the engine is never shut off.



Why, you ask, isnt this moly carbamate used in some oils now, if it is so good? Two answers: 1) price, and 2) it is used in some industrial oils where use is more severe and the quality of oils make a real difference. As to cost, the oil companies have been getting by with the crap they have been selling if it aint broke dont fix it!>>>>>>


The API has definitely been trailing behind the advancement of engine technology and that is why most Euro car makers have developed their own oil specifications,and now dexos is following that lead. ACEA and the Euro car makers currently have the best auto oil specs along with engine performance and longevity. It's time for the U.S. and API to get up to speed,and that is what dexos is all about.


The dexos will be backward compatible,rendering the other oil standards obsolete....at the very least, antiquated, if you think about it.

However,In my particular case,I have been using motor oil for years now that is held at least to the highest standards mentioned above.


Any premium group IV synthetic will easily meet and exceed even the toughest standards,and has been doing so for many years now. I like to be ahead of the curve,not behind it.

Kirk
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Refresh my memory you drive a Z4? If so that is a beast of modern machinery with beautiful styling to match.

The motors produced by BMW can lay down some serious horsepower, with handling to match. Sporty but also refined and surefooted.

To pollute the engine with swill like Synlube...Well that would be a syn.


Nuke,
Gotta love that '75 Vette bro! Take care of it, drive the wheels off of it, it will last another 35 years!

Dave
Thanks for the compliment Dave...I do have plans for it. Would like to go through the suspension and update it...Ecklers offers a system for around $2900 that includes a rack and pinion update. ..Would like a older car that corners like it's on rails.

Would also like to build a mildly fast street car in the range of 350-400 HP. Like all my vehicles it will be cared for. I actually like detailing the paint and interior.

Again many thanks...Nuke
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Thanks for the compliment Dave...I do have plans for it. Would like to go through the suspension and update it...Ecklers offers a system for around $2900 that includes a rack and pinion update. ..Would like a older car that corners like it's on rails.

Would also like to build a mildly fast street car in the range of 350-400 HP. Like all my vehicles it will be cared for. I actually like detailing the paint and interior.

Again many thanks...Nuke



As usual......change the subject when you can't deal with the hard core facts!!

P.S. What's it like talking to all your different personalities???
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Thanks for the compliment Dave...I do have plans for it. Would like to go through the suspension and update it...Ecklers offers a system for around $2900 that includes a rack and pinion update. ..Would like a older car that corners like it's on rails.

Would also like to build a mildly fast street car in the range of 350-400 HP. Like all my vehicles it will be cared for. I actually like detailing the paint and interior.

Again many thanks...Nuke



As usual......change the subject when you can't deal with the hard core facts!!

P.S. What's it like talking to all your different personalities???


Facts like PYB meets GF-5. And a dino oil at that.

Something you claim isn't possible w/o it being a synth blend.

What's that oil that is neither API, or ACEA, or ILSAC rated.... Oh yeah, synlube.

How about the fact that it's the organizations named on page 1 that set the standarts, not, as you claim, big oil.

Still making those baseless accusations I see.

Nuc, make sure you use the right oil. If it has a flat tappet camshaft, (and I don't know if they do or not.), you'll want to us "SL" rated oil. http://www.aa1car.com/library/..._classifications.htm Then again, it is a '75, so it may not. (ZDDP is bad for a cat.)
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Thanks for the compliment Dave...I do have plans for it. Would like to go through the suspension and update it...Ecklers offers a system for around $2900 that includes a rack and pinion update. ..Would like a older car that corners like it's on rails.

Would also like to build a mildly fast street car in the range of 350-400 HP. Like all my vehicles it will be cared for. I actually like detailing the paint and interior.

Again many thanks...Nuke



As usual......change the subject when you can't deal with the hard core facts!!

P.S. What's it like talking to all your different personalities???


Facts like PYB meets GF-5. And a dino oil at that.

Something you claim isn't possible w/o it being a synth blend.

What's that oil that is neither API, or ACEA, or ILSAC rated.... Oh yeah, synlube.

How about the fact that it's the organizations named on page 1 that set the standarts, not, as you claim, big oil.

Still making those baseless accusations I see.

Nuc, make sure you use the right oil. If it has a flat tappet camshaft, (and I don't know if they do or not.), you'll want to us "SL" rated oil. http://www.aa1car.com/library/..._classifications.htm Then again, it is a '75, so it may not. (ZDDP is bad for a cat.)



Your too late trajan..........the last post of mine(6:03pm) already addressed all the concerns for old and newer cars,and then some. In fact,the Jay leno post way back I posted specifically addressed older cars,from the you tube link I pasted. Oh,that's right,Nuke doesn't read those......they provide knowledge!
Posters and moderators,please read this link.


This is a part of the link
This would indicate that nucleardawg is a Psycho!

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Li...iar-and-co-682eq.htm


quoted from the link


<<<<<<I met him on the internet as "Nucleardawg", but he could be out there as just about anyone. He also holds himself out>>>>>>>


Report: Walter R. McDuffie
Reported By: (Atlanta Georgia)
Walter R. McDuffie Liar and Con Artist has Resurfaced in Georgia! Macon Georgia
... Walter McDuffie is a Professional Con Artist!


1
Author
2
Consumer
0
Employee Respond to this report!


Victim of this person/company?

What's This?Are you also a victim of the same company or individual? Want Justice? File a Rip-off Report, help other consumers to be educated and don't let them get away with it!
Walter R. McDuffie
nucleardawg
Macon Georgia
U.S.A.
Phone:
Web Address:


Category: Liars


Submitted: Thursday, December 18, 2008
Last posting: Wednesday, December 31, 2008
Last edited by annieoakley
yeah, sure annie. I'd take something from someone called "Name witheld." seriously.

By your logic, all those attempts by people claiming the miro who killed his parents is the same one who pushed synlube must be true.

And, I guess when the reports are posted there of one miro/kirk/whoever pushing this synlube ripoff, ranging from how one never has to change their oil to the use of mail drop offs, multiple address, and the recently exposed lie of operating out of Mercury NV, you of course be posting that link too.

Since you stuck your beak in with yet another off topic post, perhaps you can do what your other persona fails to do.

Why does a dino PYB meet GF-5?

Why can't this swindle...er synlube meet anything?
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
yeah, sure annie. I'd take something from someone called "Name witheld." seriously.

By your logic, all those attempts by people claiming the miro who killed his parents is the same one who pushed synlube must be true.

And, I guess when the reports are posted there of one miro/kirk/whoever pushing this synlube ripoff, ranging from how one never has to change their oil to the use of mail drop offs, multiple address, and the recently exposed lie of operating out of Mercury NV, you of course be posting that link too.

Since you stuck your beak in with yet another off topic post, perhaps you can do what your other persona fails to do.

Why does a dino PYB meet GF-5?

Why can't this swindle...er synlube meet anything?


This is the way most people with half a brain see you as


ADF1=TRAJAN=NUCLEARDAWG=DELTONA_DAVE....ETC.ETC.

Maybe the moderators finally banned the nucleardawg persona,finally-hopefully!! If not.........please do so..he is way too foul for any forum!!! He pollutes this forum with his stench!!


Moreover,You are one sick individual who obviously has no life at all,other then posting crazy talk on this and other forums.

It's official...........You are a NUTJOB!!!!
Last edited by annieoakley
So, what you're saying is.......... you can't answer.

Since you can't provide the answer, or ask any kind of question that is of relevance to the topic, or even act with any kind of decorum.....

Why are you here?

Gf-5 will be backwards compatible. What I wonder is if there will be any A3/B3 offerings. Will that be even necessary.

Can you answer that one?

CAFE – the U.S. Corporate Average Fuel Economy standard for light duty trucks is currently at 21.6 mpg and will possibly increase to 29.5 mpg by the 2011 model year.

U.S. Energy Policy Act of 2005 – requires increased use of renewable fuels through 2012.

U.S. EPA Mobile Source Air Toxics – will require non-methane hydrocarbon (NMHC) standards for cold temperatures (20oF) by the 2011 model year.

California CAA section 177 – will adopt increasingly more stringent non-methane organic gas (NMOG) standards for LEV II (low emission vehicles) through the 2010 model year.

Some of the things GF-5 has to address.

Any insightful comments? Or can you only attack posters.

http://www.api.org/certificati..._draft_Nov_19_09.pdf

Again? Any relevant thoughts? Really want to see if you're more than a one trick pony.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
So, what you're saying is.......... you can't answer.

Since you can't provide the answer, or ask any kind of question that is of relevance to the topic, or even act with any kind of decorum.....

Why are you here?


Trajan/nucleardawg/adf1/deltona_dave/snakedoctor/etc.etc. ...

Answer what,and to whom,a nutjob like you....who never answers any questions,never has anything to offer,but only remarks with foul and vile comments. Why don't you answer the above link,for once, that makes nuke/you look very suspiscious! I have nothing to hide,unlike you!

WHY ARE YOU HERE,TRAJAN?........All the other posts,not including yours...or those from your other screen names, provide useful,factual information that helps people make intelligent decisions that you always detrack. I say you are here just for that purpose,to detrack us from useful,helpful information............your mission has failed sir!!!

I will continue using what you like to call,"swill lube",because it works better than anything I have used to date. That's all I need to know.

After reading this thread,I would also use if I ever needed to,the dexos discussed,because I can see it will be a very good product,however,for now,I am fine with my present motor oil,thank you very much!


Still waiting for something intelligent that makes sense from Trajan.

Since no one responed or defended the above link showing that nuke/tajan is a very disturbed person and lives on the net harassing people.........this alone would confirm it to be the truth!

Here it is again, for all to see who/what you are...posters,please read the entire link...nucleardawag is discussed in this link which we all know is trajan,etc.etc.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Li...iar-and-co-682eq.htm

Or is this you,tajan.......

http://twitter.com/RobertTrajan
Last edited by annieoakley
quote:
Originally posted by annie_oakley:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
So, what you're saying is.......... you can't answer.

Since you can't provide the answer, or ask any kind of question that is of relevance to the topic, or even act with any kind of decorum.....

Why are you here?


Trajan/nucleardawg/adf1/deltona_dave/snakedoctor/etc.etc. ...

Answer what,and to whom,a nutjob like you....who never answers any questions,never has anything to offer,but only remarks with foul and vile comments. Why don't you answer the above link,for once, that makes nuke/you look very suspiscious! I have nothing to hide,unlike you!

WHY ARE YOU HERE,TRAJAN?........All the other posts,not including yours...or those from your other screen names, provide useful,factual information that helps people make intelligent decisions that you always detrack. I say you are here just for that purpose,to detrack us from useful,helpful information............your mission has failed sir!!!

I will continue using what you like to call,"swill lube",because it works better than anything I have used to date. That's all I need to know.

After reading this thread,I would also use if I ever needed to,the dexos discussed,because I can see it will be a very good product,however,for now,I am fine with my present motor oil,thank you very much!


Still waiting for something intelligent that makes sense from Trajan.

Since no one responded or defended the above link showing that nuke/tajan is a very disturbed person and lives on the net harassing people.........this alone would confirm it to be the truth!

Here it is again, for all to see who/what you are...posters,please read the entire link...nucleardawag is discussed in this link which we all know is trajan,etc.etc.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Li...iar-and-co-682eq.htm

Or is this you,trajan/nuke...dawg!.......click on the link below...and may the real trajan...please step forward!!!

http://twitter.com/RobertTrajan




Well....
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
As I suspected. Well, knew actually. You are a one trick pony.


As is normal for Trajan, he ignores the question and won't respond.

Trajan also showed us that he's a liar. As we all know, when does a liar tell the truth? You can't tell.

Where's that engine that your virtual neighbour has that was sludged-up by using Synlube?

Well?

Well?

Well?
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Refresh my memory you drive a Z4? If so that is a beast of modern machinery with beautiful styling to match.

The motors produced by BMW can lay down some serious horsepower, with handling to match. Sporty but also refined and surefooted.

To pollute the engine with swill like Synlube...Well that would be a syn.


This is standard fare for Nucleardope. He whines that Capt. Kirk gets off subject. What do you call this, Nuclearignorant?
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Refresh my memory you drive a Z4? If so that is a beast of modern machinery with beautiful styling to match.

The motors produced by BMW can lay down some serious horsepower, with handling to match. Sporty but also refined and surefooted.

To pollute the engine with swill like Synlube...Well that would be a syn.


This is standard fare for Nucleardope. He whines that Capt. Kirk gets off subject. What do you call this, Nuclearignorant?


And your posts are relevant to the subject of GF-5 how, exactly?

Can you answer the questions posed, or follow kirk/annie into their usual ignominious failure?

I'm guessing the latter.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Ah, Kirk's alter-ego is back, attacking everyone.

Oh well. Back to getting honey-do's done before my surgery on Wed.

Dave


It's SOP. Can't refute the facts, so go after the posters.

Hope the surgery goes well.



Surgery.......to have the dentist remove your foot from your mouth surgery!!

Refute the facts...........Haven't seen anyone here give any actual facts except, maybe..........captain_kirk.....and a few other posts.


Most of you guys(trajan/dave/nuke/adf1/snake/vitual/etc. simply distort the facts,that's about it.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
And your posts are relevant to the subject of GF-5 how, exactly?

Can you answer the questions posed, or follow kirk/annie into their usual ignominious failure?

I'm guessing the latter.


Answer this first. It was put to you months ago. You used to do this to Miro ad nauseum.

As is normal for Trajan, he ignores the question and won't respond. Trajan also showed us that he's a liar. As we all know, when does a liar tell the truth? You can't tell. Where's that engine that your virtual neighbour has that was sludged-up by using Synlube? Well? Well? Well?
quote:
Originally posted by annie_oakley:

Surgery.......to have the dentist remove your foot from your mouth surgery!!

Refute the facts...........Haven't seen anyone here give any actual facts except, maybe..........captain_kirk.....and a few other posts.

Most of you guys(trajan/dave/nuke/adf1/snake/vitual/etc. simply distort the facts,that's about it.


Unfortunately Annie, what you say is correct. Not only that, down through the years they and their ilk have chased-off EVERY poster, save yourself and Houckster who gave it a good try, who have provided readers with useful, first-hand information. Why? Because they are long-time users. Not naysaying mud slingers who have nothing to say except gimme gimme some test data.
Last edited by inhaliburton
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
And your posts are relevant to the subject of GF-5 how, exactly?

Can you answer the questions posed, or follow kirk/annie into their usual ignominious failure?

I'm guessing the latter.


Answer this first. It was put to you months ago. You used to do this to Miro ad nauseum.

As is normal for Trajan, he ignores the question and won't respond. Trajan also showed us that he's a liar. As we all know, when does a liar tell the truth? You can't tell. Where's that engine that your virtual neighbour has that was sludged-up by using Synlube? Well? Well? Well?



inHaliburton.....Very good point!

I don't come on these boards very often,but the few times I do,why do I have to see the "stench" of trajan,and his alter egos.... that really angers me! I don't know how you guys tolerate such nonsense....I surely won't.

Inhaliburton,thanks for reminding me and everyone of the lies trajan told about the sludged up car.

annie
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

You tell me, as that thread had nothing to do with GF-5 oil. Unlike this one. One you have yet to add anything worth while.


1: Read the questions asked above. Specifically the one if any GF-5 oils will be A3/B3.

2: Said thread was not about GF-5 oil, unlike this one. Wonder what said locked thread has to do with this one.

3: Perhaps I can post said picture here, and ask the question, "Will there be any GF-5 oil that will be ACEA A3/B3 that will be useable?"

4: I could do that. But it would yet be another question that will be way above your comprehension level. Par for the course really.

You really should follow your own advice in your last sentence. Pathetic little troll.


You have some nerve asking Annie to answer more of your usual inane stuff, and insulting her by calling her a "pathetic little troll." You come across as a pathetic chauvinistic male who can't take any lip from females. Not unexpected considering your background. It's obvious from your response that Annie has really cheesed you off. That's funny to me.

Answer this first. It was put to you months ago. You used to do this to Miro ad nauseum.

As is normal for Trajan, he ignores the question and won't respond.

Trajan also showed us that he's a liar.

As we all know, when does a liar tell the truth? You can't tell. Where's that engine that your virtual neighbour has that was sludged-up by using Synlube?

Well? Well? Well?
Inhaliburton= Larry
Captain Kirk= Curly
Annie=Moe

Together of course we have the 3 stooges...Of course whats even funnier than a 'man' who pretends to be a woman...Is a 'man' who has 3 identities.

'Synnners' it turns out are just one old 'goober'.

Miro SAY 'HI' to your woman for me OK bud. HAHAHAHA...MIRO YOU ARE SIMPLY A JOKE...I just love slamming this turd of a 'man'
Annie, play it smart and don't respond to Nuclearcoward's disgusting remarks. If I knew his children's email addresses, I would send them his remarks so they can see what a disgusting, filthy-mouthed moron they have for a parent. You should be ashamed of yourself. Does your wife know you post this sort of thing? I'm guessing that your "background" is similar to Trajan's.
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Inhaliburton= Larry
Captain Kirk= Curly
Annie=Moe

Together of course we have the 3 stooges...Of course whats even funnier than a 'man' who pretends to be a woman...Is a 'man' who has 3 identities.

'Synnners' it turns out are just one old 'goober'.

Miro SAY 'HI' to your woman for me OK bud. HAHAHAHA...MIRO YOU ARE SIMPLY A JOKE...I just love slamming this turd of a 'man'


But the Three Stooges were funny. These three are worse than Curly Joe DeRita and Shemp.
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Miro,

I think your neighbors have the right to know 'your background'

They will be notified by mail...I have it and the surrounding address's


Supid is as stupid Nuclearwhacko says.


Don't worry inHaliburton,I have reported this disgusting excuse for a man.

I hope he is not really in the nuclear power industry like he claims. If he is......I hope it's very low level,otherwise,a meltdown is eminent.
Miro,

Do your neighbors know you moonlight as a woman?

This is a classic meltdown...Watching this guy sink further is better than any TV sitcom.

Oh yes...this has all been saved and printed and will be mailed along with 'your past history'

You just don't know when to stop do you...Well I will put an end to this...You have slowly slipped away...We will make your illness known, so you can get the help you surely need.

Annie??? You are one strange character Miro...I fear for those who live around you.
quote:
Originally posted by annie_oakley:
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Miro,

I think your neighbors have the right to know 'your background'

They will be notified by mail...I have it and the surrounding address's


Supid is as stupid Nuclearwhacko says.


Don't worry inHaliburton,I have reported this disgusting excuse for a man.

I hope he is not really in the nuclear power industry like he claims. If he is......I hope it's very low level,otherwise,a meltdown is eminent.


I've never believed that he has a meaningful position because if he did, he would not want them to see his posts. I certainly wouldn't.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

But the Three Stooges were funny. These three are worse than Curly Joe DeRita and Shemp.


As is normal for Trajan, he ignores the question and won't respond. Trajan also showed us that he's a liar. As we all know, when does a liar tell the truth? You can't tell. Where's that engine that your virtual neighbour has that was sludged-up by using Synlube? Well? Well? Well?
I just laugh at all this...Miro watch what happens locally ok...You just may find yourself ostrasized in the local community.

Believe as you wish but it doesn't make any difference to me...I find the claims/charges by your alter ego's actually funny...Keep posting bud...This stuff is great....I saw the link...So I'm Walter Mcduffie now? Just classic...And i'm looking for companionship?....It just doesn't get any better...hahahaha...Somebody needs to alert my wife.hahaha
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Miro,

Do your neighbors know you moonlight as a woman?

This is a classic meltdown...Watching this guy sink further is better than any TV sitcom.

Oh yes...this has all been saved and printed and will be mailed along with 'your past history'

You just don't know when to stop do you...Well I will put an end to this...You have slowly slipped away...We will make your illness known, so you can get the help you surely need.

Annie??? You are one strange character Miro...I fear for those who live around you.


The only person who is ill on this forum is you....NUKE!! Look at all your posts!!

I have plenty of people who live around me. Hopefully,no one lives within a hundred miles from you,you are a sicko needing a straitjacket.

Something tells me,you are already very familiar with a straitjacket,and men wearing white coats! "There comming to take you away"


I dedicate this next link to you..NUKE.....it's all you...to a T.

http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu....norm/TakeMeAway.html
quote:
Originally posted by annie_oakley:
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Annie...All that testosterone has you soooo angry...Annie Oakley...She's a man baby!!!


NO,Just a women putting you in your rightful place......The gutter,where you belong with the rest of the sewer rats.....because you are a sewer rat!!


I'm more of a women then you will ever be as a man! You're a poor excuse for a man! You're more of a child actually! That's all you have proven yourself to be,and that's all y'll ever be!!
quote:
well and septic on my acreage


NUKE...


Makes sense to me,where else would a sewer rat live!!!