Is this the place for the BITOG rejects?

I follow bitog. I was unaware of problems. What's going on over there that warrants "banishment"?

Well Rokky... you might get a biased answer to that question from those of us who got the BITOG boot. Anyway, I will try to keep this answer as unbiased as I can. I also don't know the details of what the moderators were thinking in any case, even my own... so who knows the real reasons for what has been going on.

Suffice is to say that the moderators who were active at the time had a big crackdown in November and December. The crackdown included deletion of individual posts, deletion of entire threads, and banning members. They weren't lax about any small infraction (real or perceived) against the board rules (religion, ***, politics, personal attacks). They were also intolerant of any negative comments about site sponsors' products or mention of competitors to those sponsors. Any questions about the moderator actions, discussion about banned members, or questions about BITOG policies were also not tolerated.

Around the same time, the board was closed off to non-members. This month, open access was again allowed. I don't know if the moderators have lightened up on the crackdown, though.

After witnessing the crackdown firsthand, I still believe that BITOG is an EXCELLENT resource for those interested in automotive maintenance. However, I would add that site visitors should maintain a little bit of suspicion... especially in topics/posts lauding site sponsor products or in any topic where member posts lean overwhelmingly toward one opinion with no dissent. In those cases, it is possible that contrarian opinions have been deliberately blocked.

" They weren't lax about any small infraction (real or perceived) against the board rules (religion, ***, politics, personal attacks). They were also intolerant of any negative comments about site sponsors' products or mention of competitors to those sponsors. Any questions about the moderator actions, discussion about banned members, or questions about BITOG policies were also not tolerated."

I am concerned when a sponser can receive only good press by moderator intervention. This kind of defeats the purpose of an oil, or whatever, forum.

Thanks for the info kanling

The one I saw personally was in about November. Someone had posted a link to a new oil analysis company saying the pricing was very cheap. The moderators had edited the post so that the link was deleted. (It even said, "link deleted by moderator due to competition from site sponsor")

About a day later, somebody had made a reply that said it was "lame" to delete the link so that even the name of the competitor couldn't be discussed.

Soon after that, the whole post disappeared like it had never happened.

I have since learned that negative posts/topics about Auto RX had been deleted for a long time. (This was found out reading the ToyotaNSaturn "Talking Board", which is a political discussion BITOG offshoot from an independent moderator.)

I was a member of Noria first, BITOG later, if they banned me thats their choice and priviledge, they are out of my bookmarks for sure, even if they ask me back which I very much doubt it, I won't go back, the kind of first hand info there is good, but not that its not attainable elsewhere. I actually like to frequent owner forums where you get the word literally from the horse's mouth and you can avoid Hyundai and Audi peddlers

I have not been banned but got a cease and desist order from the main man.

That forum is nothing but a advertising rag. If they wanted to keep it techincal they should not let the advertisers sell in the forums. Put up a banner or link and thats it. I was over by and there is one thread talking strictly about one advertised prices. That is what should be deleted, anything that sells.

Also, since were complaing. All the old wifes who talk where the best deals are and so on are sickening.

Lets put it this way, paid members have the right to put down, abuse, in****, rebut the non paying member's post, the fairest man and mod was Vetterman, sadly he retired, now the jerk in charge is acting tough, good for him, BITOG's loss anyways.

people spending 25 dollars to check on 7 dollars worth of oil to see if it is holding up

Good point Char, I would only do analysis once just to find out if the oil I am using is doing its job, also to find out my engine condition.

Kanling,

What testament did you break to be banished from the hallowed BITOG?

I didn't break any rule. I just openly criticized the moderators for not following their own policies even-handedly. (Just like you mentioned, certain people were allowed to break the rules without punishment while others had posts deleted.)

I did some criticizing on BITOG and those posts were deleted. I think what really got me kicked off was criticizing the moderators on another board! (http://www.madays.net/talkingboard/viewtopic.php?t=361)

No BITOG rule about questioning or criticizing the policies, but petty moderators will do as they please.

Gurkha, sad to say that Vetteman didn't really retire... he got lung cancer over the summer and just died a few weeks ago.

Others seem to disagree, but in my view all the trouble at BITOG started happening when Vetteman had to turn over duties to the other moderators. I think I know the "jerk" you are referring to, he is the one that seems to do most of the moderation now. And I totally agree with your opinion about him.

Very sorry to hear about Vetterman, long while back, a Audi nut and I had a real going over, Vetterman intervened very justly and eventually it was the paying Audi nut that got thrown out, I will surely miss him, BITOG will never be the same without him.

As for the jerk, he keeps this up, his board will soon be history.

I still read over BITOG sometimes, and there has been a noticable decline in the quality of posts. (There's even a 5-page thread going on about it over there.)

I think a lot of it has to do with the bad decision to cut off the board for a month in December and the poor choice of the new bulletin board software which doesn't allow easy searching.

I don't think BITOG will soon disappear, but the BITOG heyday is definitely over.

Well, well, well. It seems like my lack of posting over there hasn't been without just cause. Getting back into the workforce full time again has indeed affected my desire and ability to view the topics, but I have too seen the decline of the actual material posts vs. the fluff stuff.

Great to finally be posting once again!

This isn't a place for rejects.

This is just a forum with other views and other usefull information.

I get my share of warnings from questioning sponsors and those that push sponser products on the oildrop.

And, many of my posts over the years have been lost, deleted, or edited. I've chatted and exchanged emails with other members who noticed the same issues. They still have several unbiased good members. But, I would say that they lost plenty of good members there too.

You get tired of "nothing works better then sponsors products" and "everything is a snake oil except our sponsors".

But, the UOAs, VOAs, and some member independent testing are great sources of info.

IMHO BITOG has turned into a kiddie flame war forum no better than some of the Mustang/Ricer forums. Mods do a horrible job there. But like anything else......If you dont like it dont go there. I stopped....just could not take loss of mature discussion.

I think you should have put "reject" with quotes. But I understand exactly what you mean. I was one of the first 70 members of that forum and while I rarely post, that forum is no where near what it was compared to the early days. I still read it for the UOAs. You'll notice that Terry Dyson and Molacule no longer post like they used too. Thanks for pointing out the shenanigans going on. I suspected something was up. Two members with filtration background left because of the antics of a passive/aggressive putz.

Just for giggles I've started to post a few comments, questions, and the like there once again. There are still a few very good members there, such as bruce381, TallPaul, buster, Johnny just to name a few.

But, for the most part, it has turned into a my opinion/facts are more correct than yours are war of rubbish and lest we forget that GC (German Castrol) is the Holy Grail of all lubricants for the modern piston engine!!

I'll still visit, 'cause I missed this oil stuff!!!

The xenophobia on BITOG is incredible.

quote:

Originally posted by kanling:
The xenophobia on BITOG is incredible.

Ha ha ha, fully agreed...........

quote:

Originally posted by Dad2leia:
... There are still a few very good members there, such as bruce381, TallPaul, buster, Johnny just to name a few....

Wow! I am humbled to be named in the same line as Bruce and Johnny. They are the pros and really know their stuff. Me, I just fool around with it for fun. Thanks anyway. I know you meant it not for who knows the most, but for those who are straightforward and not buying into the BS.

Hey, I got kicked off BITOG too! I told G-MAN that Harleys (and his Harley) were only good for parades, poker-runs, polishing, profiling, and posers and he said I was history. They were a bunch of overly-sensitive girls, IMHO

You didn't mention that at HOG meets, they regularly do rice burner bonfires of the fact that a Harley rider never reciprocates the common courtesy gesture among other motorcycle riders if the other rider is riding a Japanese made bike.

As for BITOG, they are signing their own doom.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad2leia:
Just for giggles I've started to post a few comments, questions, and the like there once again. There are still a few very good members there, such as bruce381, TallPaul, buster, Johnny just to name a few.

But, for the most part, it has turned into a my opinion/facts are more correct than yours are war of rubbish and lest we forget that GC (German Castrol) is the Holy Grail of all lubricants for the modern piston engine!!

I'll still visit, 'cause I missed this oil stuff!!!

Thanks for the compliment. I try my best not to be biased.

You never are Johnny. I forgot to mention AEHass and MolaKule, who is finally posting once again.

In the recent few weeks, it has seemed to calm down a bit, at least for most of the more educated posters and some newbies with honest questions to ask.

One thing that I wish they would work on is the search function. Whatever they did do it, you really can't pinpoint the information that you are looking for like you once were able to.

By the way...Welcome to NORIA!!!

What ever happend to Tooslick? He posted on the old Noria board and all of a sudden stopped posting on Bitog in 2006.

I simply mentioned an unknown " Butler Labs " in regards to stepping up the bar with use of particle counts that the lab offered and was removed from the place over the post . A week or so later of course Mark came aboard and did alot of good for many people .

Just an update from the "other site" We have some bickering going on again, but mori's back and posting again, whereas Terry called it quits..both as a site sponser and a poster.

Mola's back posting again, and has brought even more technical (read wonderful reading) to the table.

I don't know what to make of some of the newbies..kind of makes you wonder if they actually read what the heck they are typing!??

I saw that Mola is back posting again. Sorry to hear about Terry. Maybe he will come here and post.

Couldn't agree more with you Kanling. I've been reading on there for a few weeks now and I can see a trend.

I have to ask you guys about Mobil 1 products. I've seen a few times on BITOG that people say the have run UOA's and say it's nothing special and put a lot of conventional oils in front of it. Mobil has been making syn's for a long time now, I can't imagine they are not worth the $19 for 5 qt jugs!?!?

Funny thing is, I believe, that people who are into what lubes they use like to change oil and fluids and do it quit frequently. So we may change good lube to often where as people who don't care what goes in general don't change their lubes as often, so their the ones that really need that $10+ qt stuff. Just a thought I had.

Remmious...truer words have never been spoken, but unfortunately, as you keep reading on that board, you'll find that the ONLY thing that makes up most of their minds is how much oil I can get for the least amount possible.

Nothing like having your cake, eating it, AND asking for seconds as you hold out your plate IMHO...

An excellent oil at bargain prices and the ring belt area should stay clean till doomsday. Some decide over a couple ppm of iron or lead . Sillyness IMO .

It well might be that if many just went by the owners manual the engines would live very long lifes without analysis - doping oil and gasoline ect .

Wait , maybe the vast majority do just that and never have thought about oil sites on the WW Web . Not sure the majority keep cars all that long these days anyway .

quote:

Originally posted by remmious:

I have to ask you guys about Mobil 1 products. I've seen a few times on BITOG that people say the have run UOA's and say it's nothing special and put a lot of conventional oils in front of it. Mobil has been making syn's for a long time now, I can't imagine they are not worth the $19 for 5 qt jugs!?!?

Motorbike, you couldn't be more right. I get caught up in all the hoopla and I dn't know why.

Regardine M1, absolutely will keep an engine clean. That HTO-06 Honda testing proved how well Mobil 1 does at preventing deposits. I've also seen some good TEOST independent testing done by SWRI posted by someone on BITOG who had access to that info.

I'm no different than any other consumer out there; there's a limit to what I will/can spend on items such as fluids and filters so it ultimately comes down to price. But I would like to get my best bang for my buck and I like knowing what I have in front of me. I hadn't seen any of the M1 VOA's but it was something I've seen slung around a few times. I like some of the reading but you definitly have to pick through the posts.

Thanks for the responses.....

I guess that makes me the wild one of the bunch then. I will spend an extreme amount on my fluids...but ONLY if I feel that the product quality and ability of the lubricant warrants it. That's why I use Maxima products, not because I proudly want to annouce that I spend $10 per liter for it, but because after doing my research, spending hours reading posts, specification sheets, and talking to them personally, I decided to give that oil a chance.

So far, I really like it...in fact, I ordered my second batch for my next round of OCI's.

I just made a quick visit to bitog just to see what's new. I haven't checked for months. I'm distressed to see that Wix appears to have changed the design on their oil filters... changing their previous excellent bypass valve and maybe cutting the amount of media and quality of the center tube.

I also noticed the Gee-Man is flexing his muscles again... "I'm not going to go actively looking for political content in everyone's signatures. I will give you a few days to remove it yourself. After that, if I see it, you will be banned. " Still quick to the guillotine, I see. And it probably also explains why some of the knowledgeable people I remember from the past who would have provided some insight into the Wix issue have not - they're gone.

Kanling,

At this rate, they will loose everyone who has anything to contribute at BITOG and it will be dead for sure.

Well I was just banned from BITOG. GMan took offense to my sense of humor. He has posted about no political statements so I (of course) changed my signature to read:
THIS SPACE FOR SALE
Place your political advertisement here
So the Nazi bans me. Oh well. That place sux anyway...turned into a ricer/kiddie forum.
I was SargeGTO there....

Well Sarge, I wondered how long it would take for you to be banned for your new signature. Lasted longer than I thought. That's a pretty petty thing to ban someone for, IMHO. I'm interested to see how wwilsons new Truckers Oil Forum goes. I think it's a good idea and I hope it does not turn in to one sided mud slinging forum. I wish him well.