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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

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Truly which synthetic brand of motor oil is the best?

T tallpaulMember
quote:
Originally posted by Callisa:
quote:
Not sure what you mean by "releases,"


e.g.
VW 502.00
Ford WSS...
BMW Longlife-02
ACEA A3/B3/B4

These are releases. More releases (and up to date!) means better for me.

I have another rather stupid question.
What is "Dino" oil? Is this a simpel mineral based oil? Or is it a special brand?


I don't see releases on the Redline site. They do show the API service classes.

Dino, oh yeah. A term that is flung around a lot at the oil guy site. I guess in the industry the term used is "conventional." Yep, just a term for mineral oil, Group I through II+. But what is Group III, synthetic or dino? Both?
T tallpaulMember
Calissa, Very interesting link. So Nexbase 3000 is a Group III that is different from, and apparently better than, other Group III base oils. Also, did I see something about it being lower cost? I would not mind using Group III at more reasonable prices. Picked up some NAPA synthetic, which likely is group III, for only $2.69 a bottle on sale. But typical Group III based multigrade in USA is around $4 a bottle and you can get Mobil 1 PAO on sale for that, so why get Group III. But I think over time there will be a focus on the boundary area between synthetic and conventional and Group II+ and III will become more prevalant, but the USA consumer must get over the 3000 mile oil change that has been pounded into their heads by the oil companies, especailly those that have quick lube type establishments.
T tallpaulMember
sorry, I apparently was not clear and you misunderstood. I realize Nexbase is a base oil supplier, but I thought they were getting a lower priced product that hopefully would be reflected in lower retail oil prices.

Ha Ha, at least my wayward playing with oil is providing amusement for you and likely many others. They probably think "these Americans have too much money and no sense." But I know I don't need all this extra stuff. I just like to play around with the stuff.
M mgbv8Member
Dinio is Mineral

For hot temperature performance an ester is needed, so RL Motul Silkolene use these in race oils.

Shell and Castrol use a more refined GIII with nearly as good performance as PAO but cheaper.

However fairly certain in top range motorsport oils these are GIII PAO and ester blended. The blend may produce a better oil as an overall package but difficult to tell but RL on paper would appear to be best.

With racing Fuel dilution can be a problem hence the 10W60 oils from Motul and Castrol.

These products are being used in extreme circumstances which are not normally needed in road cars.

As far as I am aware in Germany Sythetic oil has to be a true synthetic and not GIII, so German Castrol could be a better basestock.

Castrol also sell Magnatec which is mineral but with esters for start up protection, PAO's are not polar.
A analysisguyMember
Consider using oil analysis to determine the "best" lube for your vehicles. Good labs and analysts are able to provide background to aim you in the correct direction from the myriad of reports they view and study.

All the "releases" and bench testing are not the actual real world operation that a used oil analysis will provide in the hands of the experienced analyst.
M mgbv8Member
Redline is based on polyol esters ideally suited for the higher temperature applications where the performance of diesters and PAOs begin to fade, ie racing.

The other off the shelf similar product is Motul, and Silkolene has 20% diester with PAO, good for say a road track car.

I assume M1 Castrol Shell use esters in greater quantities in their oils used for motorsport rather than off the shelf version oils.

Dino = made in the time of the dinosaurs
K kevinMember
"Composed of 3 solid (all in submicronic form) and 5 liquid lubricants, this oil is designed to last 150K miles/3K engine hours or 10 years. It can last this long because the components are almost entirely enert."

$32/Qt. ! Wow ! I'm not questioning the quality of the oil but I do have a question - How do you market this type of cost to your client's ? Even here on this site where we find many very intelligent oil folks and you can hear many comments about how an oil that costs $ 6.00/qt. is too much. My main reason for asking is simply this: If you're marketing your product to a trucking company with large sumps, how do you sell them on up front cost -vs- value being purchased ? This would be a substantial investment for a company with 60 over-the-road diesels. Thanks in advance.
H houcksterMember
KEVIN: With regard to trucking firms, I am not very familiar with their needs and problems so I can't say but SynLube does have trucking customers who apparently find the oil worthwhile. The HSHT of this oil is 5.0cP which is extremely important for truckers since the engine is almost always under heavy load. I understand that engines with SynLube installed when new last over 1,000,000 miles.

With regard to individual users like you and I, the economies of this lubricant are undeniable, even if you do your own oil changes. On one of the previous posts I did provide an example of the savings that SynLube provides and their website also discusses this advantage.

Plug in your costs for the oil you currently use over a 150K mile or ten year period and contrast that with SynLube. You will readily see that you should save at least a couple of hundred dollars. Of course, much more important to me is that I don't have to change the oil and the engine protection, in my opinion, is second to none. No one that I've known to try this oil has been disappointed.

Oil consumption has been on the order of 40-60K miles per quart on the vehicles I've had with SynLube in them.
T tallpaulMember
quote:
Originally posted by Callisa:
HTHS is one of the most missunderstood characterisrics of oil. Having an extreme high HTHS value gives no security at all. I don't understand why people don't understand this.
I would like to know more about this. It seems to me that, since HTHS is a measure of viscosity, one would want it to be within a reasonable range, not too high, not too low. I would suspect diesels would need a higher HTHS than gasoline engines which have excellent durability with oils having HTHS viscosity in the range of about 3.0 to 3.6 cSt. The new 5w20 oils with HTHS below 3.0 do make me hesitant, but for now my older vehicles do not spec such thin oils.
H houcksterMember
RE HSHT:
quote:
Even more important is the High-Shear High-Temperature MINIMUM specification in SAE J300. In tables below you will notice that there are "two" SAE 40 specifications, one with minimum HSHT value of 2.9 cP for Automotive Oils (SAE 0W-40; 5W-40; 10W-40) and the other for Heavy Duty Oils (HDO) (SAE 15W-40; 20W-40; 25W-40; 40).

This double specification is at insistence of heavy duty engine manufacturers who have required HSHT viscosity limits consistent with good engine durability in high-load, severe service operation. HSHT value of 3.7 cP or 27% more viscous oil at 150ºC (300ºF).

Yes, a 27% increase in viscosity makes a difference between Automotive engine that lasts 100,000 miles and Truck engine that lasts 1,000,000 miles!

When you consider that most Automotive Motor Oils are ONLY 3 cP, while our SAE 5W-50 SynLube™ Lube-4-Life™ Motor Oil has rating of 5 cP, you can readily appreciate why we can claim 300% to 500% increase in typical Automotive engine durability, and that is with substantial "safety" reserve!

C callisaMember
quote:
It seems to me that, since HTHS is a measure of viscosity, one would want it to be within a reasonable range, not too high, not too low.

HTHS is a virtual dynamic viscosity at 150°C and a shear rate of 20 m/sec. It was "invented" due to the fact at the beginning of the 80's engines failed with oil of an HTHS < 2,0.
During a SAE congress in the 80's, all members agreed, that the available data showed that an HTHS > 2,5 is fair enough for every engine on the market in those days.
High HTHS values give you a fuel penalty. Depending on your engine, you will experience a higher fuel consumption of 2% if you use an oil with HTHS of 5 instead of 2,9.
Either your engine is durable, or it is not. If it is durable, high HTHS values don't give you a "safety margin". Thats especially true for your normal car, and that's also true for Diesel engines. Roll Eyes
H houcksterMember
SynLube has this to say about fuel consumption in regard to viscosity:
quote:
If you are leasing a vehicle, then the BETTER mileage parameter is definitely more important as well as cost effective. You just do not care how long will engine last on a car that you will only operate for 24,000 to 36,000 miles. But how many gallons of fuel you will burn will make a difference.

If you own your vehicle for the long haul, or indefinitely, then SAE 5W-50 is absolute must!

That is why SynLube Lube-4-Life is available ONLY in that grade, since we guarantee 300,000-mile service life from engines that were engineered to last no more than 100,000 to 150,000 miles. It makes that much difference!

But due to unique colloidal technology used in SynLube™ Lube-4-Life™ you still get mileage benefit that is 1.6% to 2% better than even SAE 5W-20 petroleum motor oils that are now used by OEM's.


Actually, SynLube does make a 5W20 oil on request but only guarantees it for 70K miles.
T timerMember
Redline uses a different ASTM method for HT/HS than Valvoline , Pennzoil and other oil makers .

Sorry , I cannot recall the differences in these methods .

Solids . All moly's are solids correct ? Even the newer oil soluable type used in most car oils ?

quote:
Originally posted by MGBV8:
Redline HTHS

15W-50 5.8 M1 15W-50(5.11)
20W-50 6.1

Redline should go on forever and no need for solid additives.
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