Personal attacks and innuendo don't help anyone make their case.
I realize this is the amateur section, but come on.
All you are going to do with these tactics is drive out the real pros that attempt to lend a hand.
Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity
I'm starting to like Edge, nice info Big Bear. Better cold pumping and taking less time to get to operating temps is a good thing.
AD
US Navy. Helping keep us safe.
AD, I am running Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 in my car during the warm weather, but I plan on running Castrol Edge 0W-20 from October until late April since that is when I see the coldest temps in my area. I usually drive the car about 10 to 20 miles and then shut it off for a certain number of hours and then drive back home. My type of driving is not best for an oil like Amsoil, nor is my driving style good for extended drains with Amsoil.
If I lived near the Interstate and drove 50 miles up the Highway and my work was a mile or so off the interstate, and then I drove 50 miles back home, this would be 100 miles each day, so 500 miles a week times 50 weeks and I would have about 25,000 miles a year, so Amsoil would be great in this situation, I am thinking very few people drive there cars like this.
I have heard that about 85% of your wear is during startup or until your engine gets up to operating temps, so if that is the case, and especially during cold weather I want a thinner oil, in the late spring and summer I am not as concerned about the starting temp of the oil because it is probably at a starting temp like 70 degrees or so and it will flow very well.
AD
US Navy. Helping keep us safe.
AD, I am running Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 in my car during the warm weather, but I plan on running Castrol Edge 0W-20 from October until late April since that is when I see the coldest temps in my area. I usually drive the car about 10 to 20 miles and then shut it off for a certain number of hours and then drive back home. My type of driving is not best for an oil like Amsoil, nor is my driving style good for extended drains with Amsoil.
If I lived near the Interstate and drove 50 miles up the Highway and my work was a mile or so off the interstate, and then I drove 50 miles back home, this would be 100 miles each day, so 500 miles a week times 50 weeks and I would have about 25,000 miles a year, so Amsoil would be great in this situation, I am thinking very few people drive there cars like this.
I have heard that about 85% of your wear is during startup or until your engine gets up to operating temps, so if that is the case, and especially during cold weather I want a thinner oil, in the late spring and summer I am not as concerned about the starting temp of the oil because it is probably at a starting temp like 70 degrees or so and it will flow very well.
To me the Edge just makes more sense. It pumps better in a 0w20 than just about any oil I've seen, the 40*C numbers are the best I've seen as well. Since I only drive about 100 miles a week now, I feel it will protect better for my short hopp'in than any 20 grade oil there is. If I thought something was better I'd use it.
If I were driving under the conditions your talking about it would still be a good deal. It pumps better when cold, and gets to its desired viscosity faster, win win in my book.
Hey Bear, did you check out big Al on that link? I can't do it from here for some reason.
AD
If I were driving under the conditions your talking about it would still be a good deal. It pumps better when cold, and gets to its desired viscosity faster, win win in my book.
Hey Bear, did you check out big Al on that link? I can't do it from here for some reason.
AD
How to Submit Requests:
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Today we must continue to receive requests, dated and with a handwritten signature, either by mail or by fax only. This is because Federal law [5 USC 552a(b)] requires that all requests for records and information be submitted in writing. Each request must be signed and dated.
You may submit more than one request per envelope or fax, but please submit a separate request (either SF 180 or letter) for each individual whose records are being requested.
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Our fax number for requesting military records is 314-801-9195.
The Center will respond in writing by U.S. Mail.
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Response times for records requested from the National Personnel Records Center (NPRC) vary greatly depending on the nature of the request. For example, the NPRC Military Records Facility currently has a pending workload of 85,000 requests and is receiving approximately 4,900 requests per day. We are responding to requests for replacement copies of separation documents only within 10 days about 90% of the time. However, for requests involving other types of information or documents, we currently are working on requests received in December 2009. Additionally, requests that involve reconstruction efforts due to the 1973 fire or older records which require extensive search efforts may take six months or more to complete. Overall we are responding to 63% of all requests received within 10 days. Our average response time for all case types is approximately 4.5 weeks.
AD, it looks like this could be a long process, I will see if there is a better way to find out the info.
* Send by mail
* Send by fax
Today we must continue to receive requests, dated and with a handwritten signature, either by mail or by fax only. This is because Federal law [5 USC 552a(b)] requires that all requests for records and information be submitted in writing. Each request must be signed and dated.
You may submit more than one request per envelope or fax, but please submit a separate request (either SF 180 or letter) for each individual whose records are being requested.
* Send by Mail
Our mailing address is:
National Personnel Records Center
Military Personnel Records
9700 Page Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63132-5100
* Send by Fax
Our fax number for requesting military records is 314-801-9195.
The Center will respond in writing by U.S. Mail.
Order Processing Time
Response times for records requested from the National Personnel Records Center (NPRC) vary greatly depending on the nature of the request. For example, the NPRC Military Records Facility currently has a pending workload of 85,000 requests and is receiving approximately 4,900 requests per day. We are responding to requests for replacement copies of separation documents only within 10 days about 90% of the time. However, for requests involving other types of information or documents, we currently are working on requests received in December 2009. Additionally, requests that involve reconstruction efforts due to the 1973 fire or older records which require extensive search efforts may take six months or more to complete. Overall we are responding to 63% of all requests received within 10 days. Our average response time for all case types is approximately 4.5 weeks.
AD, it looks like this could be a long process, I will see if there is a better way to find out the info.
Its probably to late. This has deteriorated into a troll pit. Noria can do better than this.quote:Originally posted by RobertC:
Personal attacks and innuendo don't help anyone make their case.
I realize this is the amateur section, but come on.
All you are going to do with these tactics is drive out the real pros that attempt to lend a hand.
quote:They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.
No. They don't. If you're using the spec'd fluids under the prescribed intervals, the manufacture has no recourse in a lubrication related failure.
If a lubrication related failure occurs, whether spec'd fluids are use or not, the lubricant has to be the reason for the failure to deny warranty.
I'm sure you can see the difference between what I stated and what you did.
Sounds like you might be an Amsoil dealer. What happens in the case where lets say Ford calls for 5W20 oil, no other choice. Amsoil site says 0W30 SSO is GTG in the app. Oil failure occurs, Ford says 0W30 is NG. Amsoil says it was, and then goes thru their "process" to avoid a pay out. Is it worth the hassle?
Please lets not hear it never happened in 38 years, or the MM act that's getting old. The flawed filters is proof the company is far from perfect, but then no oil company is.
Please note I'm looking for an answer, not trying to fire Tim up and start another 50 page Amsoil sales pitch thread. You seem to have a level head in your replies.
Thanks
AD
Please lets not hear it never happened in 38 years, or the MM act that's getting old. The flawed filters is proof the company is far from perfect, but then no oil company is.
Please note I'm looking for an answer, not trying to fire Tim up and start another 50 page Amsoil sales pitch thread. You seem to have a level head in your replies.
Thanks
AD
I agree.
AD
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Sounds like you might be an Amsoil dealer. What happens in the case where lets say Ford calls for 5W20 oil, no other choice. Amsoil site says 0W30 SSO is GTG in the app. Oil failure occurs, Ford says 0W30 is NG. Amsoil says it was, and then goes thru their "process" to avoid a pay out. Is it worth the hassle?
Thanks
AD
Ford still has to prove that the lube was responsible for the failure. It would be the same with Ford saying 10k miles is NG. Ford themselves spec's all kinds of viscosity fluids for the same engines worldwide and even dealers don't adhere to all of Ford's recommendations for 5w-20 oil.
After ford denied your warranty claim,did amsoil pick up the bill javier?
quote:Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
After ford denied your warranty claim,did amsoil pick up the bill javier?
I didn't read the thread, but I'd figure if it was Amsoil, they'd be looking long and hard for a way out. JMO
Moral of the story, use the recommended oil, for the suggested interval, and live happily ever after.
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
After ford denied your warranty claim,did amsoil pick up the bill javier?
I didn't read the thread, but I'd figure if it was Amsoil, they'd be looking long and hard for a way out. JMO
Moral of the story, use the recommended oil, for the suggested interval, and live happily ever after.
AD
I read the whole thread and that was the moral of the story. Interesting that this guy would never admit that he was using amsoil. A few posters on the other thread guessed it and he just admitted it here. The navistar diesels that ford has been using are like A curse. No sense at all using the wrong product AND not changing the oil in a defective engine.
FRom Here:
6.0 PowerStroke bulletins
6.0 Oil Recommendations:
Some trucks with the 6.0 may exhibit hard starting, rough running and lack of power in cold temperatures, particularly on a cold start. This may be due to the oil being to thick for the operating conditions. Ford is recommending to use the following oils for the listed operating temperature.
SAE 15W-40 is the preferred oil above 30 degrees, but it is acceptable for use down to 10 degrees, and is recommended for towing down to this temperature.
SAE 10W-30 is the preferred weight between -10 to 30 degrees.
SAE 5W-30 and 5W-40 is acceptable for use below 30 degrees, and 0W-30 is acceptable below zero.
(All temperatures are in Fahrenheit.)
The oil used should meet Ford's specification of WSS-M2C171-D or API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4/SL or DHD-1. CH-4 is acceptable for use if CI-4 PLUS is not available. TSB #05-16-6.
Keep in mind that CI-4 oil is designed for the increased soot contamination and higher coolant temperatures of cooled EGR systems on a diesel; CH-4 is not.
Nowhere does the TSB mention synthetic versus conventional oil recomendations or ranges.
Ford has not released anything recommending NOT to use a specific brand of oil.
Reply With Quote
30 weight is pretty thin for Florida.
6.0 PowerStroke bulletins
6.0 Oil Recommendations:
Some trucks with the 6.0 may exhibit hard starting, rough running and lack of power in cold temperatures, particularly on a cold start. This may be due to the oil being to thick for the operating conditions. Ford is recommending to use the following oils for the listed operating temperature.
SAE 15W-40 is the preferred oil above 30 degrees, but it is acceptable for use down to 10 degrees, and is recommended for towing down to this temperature.
SAE 10W-30 is the preferred weight between -10 to 30 degrees.
SAE 5W-30 and 5W-40 is acceptable for use below 30 degrees, and 0W-30 is acceptable below zero.
(All temperatures are in Fahrenheit.)
The oil used should meet Ford's specification of WSS-M2C171-D or API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4/SL or DHD-1. CH-4 is acceptable for use if CI-4 PLUS is not available. TSB #05-16-6.
Keep in mind that CI-4 oil is designed for the increased soot contamination and higher coolant temperatures of cooled EGR systems on a diesel; CH-4 is not.
Nowhere does the TSB mention synthetic versus conventional oil recomendations or ranges.
Ford has not released anything recommending NOT to use a specific brand of oil.
Reply With Quote
30 weight is pretty thin for Florida.
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
After ford denied your warranty claim,did amsoil pick up the bill javier?
Ad said.....
I didn't read the thread, but I'd figure if it was Amsoil, they'd be looking long and hard for a way out. JMO
------------------------------------------------------
Well Ad,you should have read the thread before you posted. Amsoil,nor any lube company wouldn't need to "look long and hard" as you say for a way out............the coolant leak says it all.
The massive coolant leak into the oil is the issue,not the oil. The MFG is the one always looking for a way out,in this case ford.
One of those few times we agree Kirk. In this case the coolant leak is pretty obvious. Take away the coolant leak and the oil company would be looking long and hard for a way out.
AD
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
One of those few times we agree Kirk. In this case the coolant leak is pretty obvious. Take away the coolant leak and the oil company would be looking long and hard for a way out.
AD
Impossible for the oil company to look long and hard if you follow their directions.
If you change the oil using the 'severe service' category,what could they find.
If the engine has issues....thus far historically..........
IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN ENGINE ISSUES UNRELATED TO THE SYNTHETIC OIL USED,IN THIS CASE...AMSOIL VS FORD.
Even when cheap oil was used that actually was causing sludge build up across almost all makes and models,the mfg's were the ones who got sued/blamed,when it should have been the oil companies that got sued(big oil in this case).
No one ever really gets that except me?
Motorists were basically running garbage for lube,unless they were using 100% synthetic PAO,or something very close.
That is the reason for GM creating a dexos standard,and also the European oil standards that practically mock the API standards.
We almost agree again. I've always followed SS recommendations. Being born and raised in NY everything we owned fell into SS categories. Just ride on the LIE, GCP, or Southern State on a beach day during rush hour and you'll see why. Forget the commute into NYC. The odds of us having an oil related engine failure are slim to none.
My comments are hypothetical, but could become reality. IMO any oil company will look for an out, Amsoil is no exception, and has one other strike against it, the API starburst for their high end products.
My father taught me to follow recommendations, use what the mfg, "suggests", it will keep me out of trouble. Why hassle the MM act? The only one who benefits from that is a lawyer. Risk to reward ratio tells me to follow recommendations. Now if I was making a living selling Amsoil, I'd have a different view. I don't sell it and won't sell it.
BTW the tone of this recent discussion is refreshing!
AD
My comments are hypothetical, but could become reality. IMO any oil company will look for an out, Amsoil is no exception, and has one other strike against it, the API starburst for their high end products.
My father taught me to follow recommendations, use what the mfg, "suggests", it will keep me out of trouble. Why hassle the MM act? The only one who benefits from that is a lawyer. Risk to reward ratio tells me to follow recommendations. Now if I was making a living selling Amsoil, I'd have a different view. I don't sell it and won't sell it.
BTW the tone of this recent discussion is refreshing!
AD
Thanks for the reply. The truck I serviced was not mine. We used the AMSOIL 5W30 HDD oil and this was a full year before AMSOIL TSB all the DPF engines. At the time of failure there was no recommendation for the 6.4 oil change interval. Like there is now.
I do not own the truck, I told the oner to collect UOA but he did not, the truck failed,he called me after the truck was at the dealer, so I had not to work with when I heard what happened.
I did collect a UOA at the dealer and did find coolant in the oil with caused the jelly sludge with made the turbo fail.
those are the facts, the oil analysis came out good excpt for the coolant contamination.
the Ford mechanics told me NO WAY! coolant will ake the oil milky! I just laughed at them told them keep working...
Javier
I do not own the truck, I told the oner to collect UOA but he did not, the truck failed,he called me after the truck was at the dealer, so I had not to work with when I heard what happened.
I did collect a UOA at the dealer and did find coolant in the oil with caused the jelly sludge with made the turbo fail.
those are the facts, the oil analysis came out good excpt for the coolant contamination.
the Ford mechanics told me NO WAY! coolant will ake the oil milky! I just laughed at them told them keep working...
Javier
quote:More proof of 5w-20 being too thin... In the rest of the world,that same engine would never see 5w-20,only in America.....CAFE standards are to blame.
Interesting, then the oil would be at fault if it was mfg spec'd and too thin assuming it was changed as per the OM.
Question if that was in fact the case [what I mentioned above] what would happen?
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:More proof of 5w-20 being too thin... In the rest of the world,that same engine would never see 5w-20,only in America.....CAFE standards are to blame.
Interesting, then the oil would be at fault if it was mfg spec'd and too thin assuming it was changed as per the OM.
Question if that was in fact the case [what I mentioned above] what would happen?
AD
If a motorist is using basic mineral oil//5w-20,like above....I will say.....change it every 3k,at the dealer with a coupon,and save the receipts.........because you might just need them using cheap bulk oil.
The above repair was 10k,of which Kathy paid as far as we know....2k.