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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


3. Change PCV valve yourself = Not all models even have one now days. You also failed to mention to only use OEM valve if changed,and never use aftermarket valve. You could void the warranty with trajans advice.


Question..........who is actually listening to Trajan..........NOT ME!


I think Trajan gave some good advise. I only used OEM PCV valves, they never gave me problems. My dad told me aftermarket can cause oil use, they did for him, changing back to OEM easily fixed it. I'll take his word.


It's just further proof, if needed, that he doesn't read his own links. It's his own link that says change the PCV valve yourself.

It's also further proof that he cherry picks his own links.

Got to love it. He posts a link, then attacks his own link........
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:

You have to remember that the "Market Share" of Synthetic Motor oil is now in 2% range that is from almost 250,000,000 Light duty vehicles less than 5 million use "synthetic oils"

From the Mobil 1 volume sales that would if true mean that Mobil 1 users only change their oil every 30 months, which is not likely, so again the BIG OIL as well as "small oil" like to misrepresent the fact, or basically lie about their sales.
Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.


quote:
Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:When high quality PAO sells for $8.00 or more per pound and Mobil 1 in store sells for under $8.00 and weights just under 2 pounds, just figure how much virgin PAO is really in it !!!
Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.


Same place he gets all his other claims that he has yet to back. The air.
quote:
Of course the United States Patent and Trademark Office approved AMSOIL's trademark "The First in Synthetics", when AMSOIL proved they were the first 100% synthetic oil to meet all API requirements. AMSOIL also submitted volumes of test data showing their oil was the best on the market, and the US Patent and Trademark Office asked for the other oil companies to prove AMSOIL wrong, which they didn't. And of course the trademark has been reviewed and renewed since then. And if you have any data that proves otherwise, please contact the United States Patent and Trademark Office to have them void it.


Tim, that must be public knowledge if it is at the Patent Office. Please Post it here for us to read.

quote:
Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.


Again, Please Post the reports you've seen.

quote:
Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.


I think we would like to see these reports too!
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Nice example Bear. Although you used Gear oil for your example, we could easily substitute 0W30 in an engine that calls for 5W20, with no other options. I get the point. It would be a long drawn out uphill battle.

Stick to approved fluids, and mfg recommended intervals, in the suggested grade, and don't play games while under a warranty. Sound advice, and exactly what the service writer told us when we had my GF's Jeep in for a warranty issue. He flat out said, DON'T USE A 30 GRADE OIL IN THIS JEEP! IF THERE IS AN OIL PROBLEM WE WILL PULL A SAMPLE, AND THAT 30 GRADE WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT! IT CALLS FOR 5W20, USE 5W20!

NUFF SAID,
AD



Yeh......that worked at real well for some. Play it safe,really,are you sure?

For those of you who think you are safe doing 3000 mile oil changes with receipts,think again.....

http://www.google.com/imgres?i...a:en-US%3Cimg%20src=


quote:
<<<<<Manufacturer warranties might refuse to cover oil sludge damage by blaming you, the customer, for poor maintenance habits or neglect—even if you can prove you changed the oil every 3,000 miles. Without warranty protection, engine replacements are $5,000-$10,000. SAAB, Toyota, VW, and a few other manufacturers have some limited coverage for sludge damage.>>>>>



In sum..........playing it safe as some have said,may not be.....playing it smart!

The smart move is to use group IV synthetic,don't get sludge in the first place,and you won't have to worry about warranty issues......because you probably won't have any issues to deal with.


Instead of trolling me over a PCV change, why don't you read your own link all the way through for once, instead of cherry picking?

look for the line "If you're on a budget" in the link *you* provided.
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:
quote:
Of course the United States Patent and Trademark Office approved AMSOIL's trademark "The First in Synthetics", when AMSOIL proved they were the first 100% synthetic oil to meet all API requirements. AMSOIL also submitted volumes of test data showing their oil was the best on the market, and the US Patent and Trademark Office asked for the other oil companies to prove AMSOIL wrong, which they didn't. And of course the trademark has been reviewed and renewed since then. And if you have any data that proves otherwise, please contact the United States Patent and Trademark Office to have them void it.


Tim, that must be public knowledge if it is at the Patent Office. Please Post it here for us to read.

http://tess2.uspto.gov/

Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 001. US 001 005 006 010 026 046. G & S: Chemical additives for lubricants and fuels; anti-freeze; transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19910300. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19910300
IC 002. US 006 011 016. G & S: Rust preventatives in the nature of a coating. FIRST USE: 20031112. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20031112

IC 003. US 001 004 006 050 051 052. G & S: Automotive cleaning preparations. FIRST USE: 20040324. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040324

IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: Lubricants, oils and greases for automotive, industrial and commercial use. FIRST USE: 19900400. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900400

Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 78803596
Filing Date January 31, 2006
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition December 5, 2006
Registration Number 3210848
Registration Date February 20, 2007
Owner (REGISTRANT) AMSOIL INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE AMSOIL BUILDING Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Prior Registrations 2033283
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE


Typed Drawing

Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic gear lube; para-synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic turbo lubricating oil; and synthetic automatic transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19900700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900700
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 74562272
Filing Date August 17, 1994
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition October 22, 1996
Registration Number 2033283
Registration Date January 28, 1997
Owner (REGISTRANT) Amsoil, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE Amsoil Bldg. Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20060713.
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20060713
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:

quote:
Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.


Again, Please Post the reports you've seen.


http://www.amsoil.com/news/200..._fastlube_market.pdf

"According to the 2009 National Oil & Lube News Fast Lube
Operators Survey, the vast majority of both smaller LT30
(companies operating “less than 30 stores”) and larger MT30
(companies operating “more than 30 stores”) fast lube busi-
nesses offer premium oil changes using synthetic motor oil.
In fact, 92 percent of LT30 businesses and 100 percent of
MT30 businesses offer a synthetic motor oil change, with
synthetics accounting for 10 percent of sales at both MT30
and LT30 businesses."

http://www.businesswire.com/po...22005302&newsLang=en

"Only 11 percent of survey participants are using synthetic motor oil in their engine."
quote:
quote:
Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.



Again, Please Post the reports you've seen.

quote:
Where did you get this pricing? The reports I've seen show it goes for about $10 per gallon. Which would seem to reflect the chemical synthetic motor oil prices in the market.



I think we would like to see these reports too!



You going to show us the numbers Tim, I also looked at Amsoil's numbers on the ASTM D-5293 test and they did not look that good.

I also looked at the 40 Degree Celcius Numbers and I was not impressed.

You seem to like to knock Pennzoil but they did show numbers for the D-4684 test, Castrol Edge also showed numbers for this test, Amsoil does not have any numbers for this test meaning they do not show it on there site.

I have a feeling that since Amsoil is super thick they probably knew they would do terrible with the D-4684 test.

How come Amsoil 0W-20 is thicker than Amsoil 5W-20 XL, that Amsoil 0W-20 is almost a 0W-30 and some would argue that it is almost a 5W-20

Your Amsoil 0W-30 is thicker than Castrol Edge's 5W-30 and its very close to Pennzoil Platinums numbers for there 5W-30 motor oil.

Why is the 5W-30 XL thinner than the 5W-30 100% synthetic oil that Amsoil sells.

The Viscosity Indexes on your oil's looks pathetic, no wonder your oil's thicken up overtime.

Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.
quote:
Again, Please Post the reports you've seen.



http://www.amsoil.com/news/200..._fastlube_market.pdf

"According to the 2009 National Oil & Lube News Fast Lube
Operators Survey, the vast majority of both smaller LT30
(companies operating “less than 30 stores”) and larger MT30
(companies operating “more than 30 stores”) fast lube busi-
nesses offer premium oil changes using synthetic motor oil.
In fact, 92 percent of LT30 businesses and 100 percent of
MT30 businesses offer a synthetic motor oil change, with
synthetics accounting for 10 percent of sales at both MT30
and LT30 businesses."



Tim, do you have any data besides some pathetic stuff you have posted before, we don't need any Fast Lube junk, real numbers, real sales figures.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:
quote:
Of course the United States Patent and Trademark Office approved AMSOIL's trademark "The First in Synthetics", when AMSOIL proved they were the first 100% synthetic oil to meet all API requirements. AMSOIL also submitted volumes of test data showing their oil was the best on the market, and the US Patent and Trademark Office asked for the other oil companies to prove AMSOIL wrong, which they didn't. And of course the trademark has been reviewed and renewed since then. And if you have any data that proves otherwise, please contact the United States Patent and Trademark Office to have them void it.


Tim, that must be public knowledge if it is at the Patent Office. Please Post it here for us to read.

http://tess2.uspto.gov/

Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 001. US 001 005 006 010 026 046. G & S: Chemical additives for lubricants and fuels; anti-freeze; transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19910300. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19910300
IC 002. US 006 011 016. G & S: Rust preventatives in the nature of a coating. FIRST USE: 20031112. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20031112

IC 003. US 001 004 006 050 051 052. G & S: Automotive cleaning preparations. FIRST USE: 20040324. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040324

IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: Lubricants, oils and greases for automotive, industrial and commercial use. FIRST USE: 19900400. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900400

Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 78803596
Filing Date January 31, 2006
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition December 5, 2006
Registration Number 3210848
Registration Date February 20, 2007
Owner (REGISTRANT) AMSOIL INC. CORPORATION DELAWARE AMSOIL BUILDING Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Prior Registrations 2033283
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE


Typed Drawing

Word Mark THE FIRST IN SYNTHETICS
Goods and Services IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic gear lube; para-synthetic lubricating oil; synthetic turbo lubricating oil; and synthetic automatic transmission fluid. FIRST USE: 19900700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19900700
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 74562272
Filing Date August 17, 1994
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition October 22, 1996
Registration Number 2033283
Registration Date January 28, 1997
Owner (REGISTRANT) Amsoil, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE Amsoil Bldg. Superior WISCONSIN 54880
Attorney of Record Christopher J. Schulte
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20060713.
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20060713
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE


Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:

quote:
Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.


Tim, this is based on an unscientific survey. Please provide real, hard numbers for us to evaluate.

Again, Please Post the reports you've seen.


http://www.amsoil.com/news/200..._fastlube_market.pdf

"According to the 2009 National Oil & Lube News Fast Lube
Operators Survey, the vast majority of both smaller LT30
(companies operating “less than 30 stores”) and larger MT30
(companies operating “more than 30 stores”) fast lube busi-
nesses offer premium oil changes using synthetic motor oil.
In fact, 92 percent of LT30 businesses and 100 percent of
MT30 businesses offer a synthetic motor oil change, with
synthetics accounting for 10 percent of sales at both MT30
and LT30 businesses."

http://www.businesswire.com/po...22005302&newsLang=en

"Only 11 percent of survey participants are using synthetic motor oil in their engine."
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

Question..........who is actually listening to Trajan..........NOT ME!


ADF1 SAID........
I think Trajan gave some good advise.

----------------------------------------

Really,tell us what the good advice was since I was the one who said to use only an OEM PCV valve. So,in reality,you(ADF1) unwittingly backed what I said.

Tell us what other advice he(trajan) gave that isn't already something you(ADF1) knew already?



I will continue with my PCV valve rant!


Using the wrong(aftermarket) PCV valve should not cause your car to use more oil unless you are using motor oil that is highly volatile in which case it will burn off anyway.

Using an after market PCV valve is a bad idea because the valve spring in after market valves is not typically calibrated as precise as the OEM valve allowing for improper metering of the valve,and improper venting of the crankcase gases. This will either cause too much venting,or not enough, causing condensation issues, sludge issues ,and idling issues. Way too much venting might cause loss of oil.

fficial&channel=s&&sa=X&ei=cXsiTKKHHsL78Aap0qzeBQ&ved=0CE0QBSgA&q=aftermarket+pcv+valve+vs+oem&spell=1" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?h...valve+vs+oem&spell=1



Let's review Trajan's Idiotic Advice! AGAIN................


1. Buy a car not prone to sludge = Bad advice,impossible to know the future of any make,model,unless you buy used.

2. Change oil every 3,000 miles=Bad,antiquated,expensive,wasteful,advice.

3. Change PCV valve yourself = Not all models even have one now days. You also failed to mention to only use OEM valve if changed,and never use aftermarket valve. You could void the warranty with trajans advice.

4. Don't be a stupid owner = Bad advice.Need to define what stupid owner means. Most Americans only know where the key goes to start the car,and therefore are,"stupid",at least mechanically. That will never change,only worsen.

5. Change coolant every 30,000 miles = Trajan is living in the seventies,and is clueless.

6. Use the correct weight of oil = Vague advice, as weights are generally only recommendations,not mandates as per the manual.



TRAJAN QUOTE........"You can change the PCV valve yourself, or have it changed with the 30,000-mile coolant service. But remember, coolant is best changed by a technician so they can dispose of the fluid properly."

As you can see........Trajan is the one saying to change PCV........yourself.



In sum.........what the heck is Trajan talking about..........AGAIN....


Question..........who is actually listening to Trajan..........NOT ME!
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.


I call it plain old MARKETING, Amsoil and there PUSHY Dealers will say anything to sell there product, will they ever learn before its too late, probably not.



TOO LATE BIG BEAR,TOO LATE FOR WHAT.......

....PLEASE TELL US........IS THERE A STORM COMING...........
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:


When high quality PAO sells for $8.00 or more per pound and Mobil 1 in store sells for under $8.00 and weights just under 2 pounds, just figure how much virgin PAO is really in it !!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The other issue besides cost I would think is group I-III oil is a byproduct of the refining process to make fuel,and now what to do with all that lube oil. It would be similar to how big industry gets rid of another industrial by- product..........FLUORIDE.

We are all using/burning some type of fuel that comes from crude oil,and the byproduct of all that refining of crude oil,would be mineral/lube oil as a byproduct.

Big oil is always going to push mineral oil vs synthetic,otherwise how would all that product(mineral oil)get used up.

http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/o...utlines/distill.html


Look how much mineral/lube oil is in this graph.

I would think that part of the graph(lube oil) is reserved for all the naysayers in this group against synthetic oil.
They are the ones doing all those 3000 mile oil changes who drink all the mineral oil........Kool-Aid!!

I would think that big oil is totally against using 100% synthetic with extended oil changes,so big oil will always market 3000 mile changes using mineral oil,for more profit, and to "Get Rid" of the lube oil. Only suckers buy into that philosophy,not me!


I also think that automotive diesel technology has not really caught on(politically)in this country vs Europe for the same set of reasons. If more cars got 50 MPG using diesel..........what would big oil do with all that extra........gasoline. What would happen to the price of gasoline,and big oil profits!! It's all about supply and demand,and of course......BIG PROFIT.
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:

You going to show us the numbers Tim, I also looked at Amsoil's numbers on the ASTM D-5293 test and they did not look that good.
Which numbers? Please provide the link.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I also looked at the 40 Degree Celcius Numbers and I was not impressed.
Which numbers. Please provide the link. What did not impress you?

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:You seem to like to knock Pennzoil but they did show numbers for the D-4684 test, Castrol Edge also showed numbers for this test, Amsoil does not have any numbers for this test meaning they do not show it on there site.
I have never knocked Pennzoil. They clearly do not have the best oil as shown with their 4,000 mile/4 month warranty. In fact, Pennzoil is leaving Australia and other countries as well. I guess it did not do well in the more competitive world markets.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:I have a feeling that since Amsoil is super thick they probably knew they would do terrible with the D-4684 test.
AMSOIL is not super thick. It meets the standards for viscosity. Please post the link where it is super thick.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:How come Amsoil 0W-20 is thicker than Amsoil 5W-20 XL, that Amsoil 0W-20 is almost a 0W-30 and some would argue that it is almost a 5W-20
They all meet the SAE viscosity grade. AMSOIL 0w20 is thinner at the lowest temperatures. They all offer longer warranted oil change intervals. Nothing wrong with that.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Your Amsoil 0W-30 is thicker than Castrol Edge's 5W-30 and its very close to Pennzoil Platinums numbers for there 5W-30 motor oil.
Not at the lowest temperatures.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Why is the 5W-30 XL thinner than the 5W-30 100% synthetic oil that Amsoil sells.
Different base oils, different additives. All meet SAE viscosity.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:The Viscosity Indexes on your oil's looks pathetic, no wonder your oil's thicken up overtime.
The Viscosity Indexes all meet the Viscosity Index requirements. Please show a direct correlation between Viscosity Index and thickening. When has AMSOIL thickened when there wasn't high dirt, or water, or coolant present? Please show.

quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.
No it isn't. Look at the Pour Point and Cold Cranking numbers. None better. Pick the 0w-XX and all will be well. AMSOIL is VERY popular in cold climates.

Show me where AMSOIL has ever failed to perform as advertised. No one else has.
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:

quote:
Where did you get these numbers? The reports I've seen show a 10% synthetic oil market. And retail stores carry much more that 2% synthetic oils, more like the 10% I've seen reported.


Tim, this is based on an unscientific survey. Please provide real, hard numbers for us to evaluate.

Again, Please Post the reports you've seen.


http://www.amsoil.com/news/200..._fastlube_market.pdf

"According to the 2009 National Oil & Lube News Fast Lube
Operators Survey, the vast majority of both smaller LT30
(companies operating “less than 30 stores”) and larger MT30
(companies operating “more than 30 stores”) fast lube busi-
nesses offer premium oil changes using synthetic motor oil.
In fact, 92 percent of LT30 businesses and 100 percent of
MT30 businesses offer a synthetic motor oil change, with
synthetics accounting for 10 percent of sales at both MT30
and LT30 businesses."

http://www.businesswire.com/po...22005302&newsLang=en

"Only 11 percent of survey participants are using synthetic motor oil in their engine."


What makes you think the numbers are unscientific? They were done by Exxon and National Oil & Lube. Two different sources. Total agreement.
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
Tim, AMSOIL just patented some words. That doesn't mean anything other than that. Just a slogan.


I call it plain old MARKETING, Amsoil and there PUSHY Dealers will say anything to sell there product, will they ever learn before its too late, probably not.

But AMSOIL had to prove it to the United States Patent and Trademark Office. And none of the oil companies refuted it then or today.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.

No it isn't. Look at the Pour Point and Cold Cranking numbers. None better. Pick the 0w-XX and all will be well. AMSOIL is VERY popular in cold climates.

Show me where AMSOIL has ever failed to perform as advertised. No one else has.


Sorry, Tim, but I have seen the Cold Cranking Numbers and they do not look as good as my next oil that I will be using in the wintertime.

Pour Point does not mean anything to me, what means something is the D-4684 test that Amsoil has failed to take part in, without that test I cannot even think of buying Amsoil Motor Oil, its a better test than the ASTM D-5293

Sorry Tim, but in this debate the customer is always right, tell your boss, I think his name is Big Al, that we all want to see Amsoil do an ASTM D-4684 Test, and we are not going to buy that Amsoil thinks its a worthless test, if Amsoil wants are money then they know what they need too do.

Show us the DATA that any of what we are saying is wrong, I have all of the numbers on just about all of the motor oil's and Amsoil is coming up thick and short.
quote:
Originally posted by johnpr3:

"Only 11 percent of survey participants are using synthetic motor oil in their engine."
[/QUOTE]
------------------------------------------


I guess that would mean the other 89% percent are, "out of the loop" in the meantime. Too bad for them,but very good for big oil and all those profits.

Now we know why all those engines sludged up and all the subsequent lawsuits...........everyone(90%+) went to iffy lube and got the cheap bulk oil that is prone to sludge.

Some people(TRAJAN) think(say) that certain engines are prone to sludge,and/or are defective, when in reality,it's certain oils are prone to sludge and or defective.

That 11% percent really shows how clueless the public is. The very same public that just voted for Al Greene in SC.(lol)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...in-gre_n_613453.html

fficial&channel=s&prmd=n&source=univ&tbs=nws:1&tbo=u&ei=w5IiTLepNsK78gayr4W7BQ&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCAQsQQwAA" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?q...um=1&ved=0CCAQsQQwAA
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:Amsoil Motor Oil is just too THICK, especially for the NORTHERN folks during the wintertime.

No it isn't. Look at the Pour Point and Cold Cranking numbers. None better. Pick the 0w-XX and all will be well. AMSOIL is VERY popular in cold climates.

Show me where AMSOIL has ever failed to perform as advertised. No one else has.


Sorry, Tim, but I have seen the Cold Cranking Numbers and they do not look as good as my next oil that I will be using in the wintertime.

Pour Point does not mean anything to me, what means something is the D-4684 test that Amsoil has failed to take part in, without that test I cannot even think of buying Amsoil Motor Oil, its a better test than the ASTM D-5293

Sorry Tim, but in this debate the customer is always right, tell your boss, I think his name is Big Al, that we all want to see Amsoil do an ASTM D-4684 Test, and we are not going to buy that Amsoil thinks its a worthless test, if Amsoil wants are money then they know what they need too do.

Show us the DATA that any of what we are saying is wrong, I have all of the numbers on just about all of the motor oil's and Amsoil is coming up thick and short.



Big Bear..........."Try wrapping your head around this one"
------------------------------------------------

Car talk quote

Unless they changed the rating procedure, the first number describes how the oil will behave (pour point & flow characteristics) at 0 degrees C. Meaning a 0W-20 will behave like a 0 weight oil at 0C, and a 5W-20 will behave like a 5W oil at 0C. That's all the first number is indicating.

0w is xxx cps @ -35F 5w is xxx cPs @ -30F - the limits of stress under the CCS (Cold Crank Simulator) are the same.
MRV rating is more indicative of the differences. Some people think that all 5w's are the same at sensible flows ..as though they get some "free ride" up to operating temperature. A heavier fluid is ALWAYS a heavier fluid. This just means it's pumpable and not spinning around in a gelatinous mass.

Here's Pennzoil's hybrid 0w-20 CCS/MRV spec's

MRV viscosity, cP (°C) ASTD D-4684 16,800 (-40)
CCS Viscosity, cP (°C ) ASTM D-5293 5,600 (-35)

Penzoil's Ultra 5w-20
MRV viscosity, cP(°C)ASTD D-4684 11,700 (-35)
CCS Viscosity, cP(°C)ASTM D-5293 4,250 (-35)

Here's Mobil's M1 0w-40 @ -40C (MRV only)
MRV at -40ºC 26242 cP

In other words, just because you see a 0w doesn't mean that it's not a heavier fluid at that temp in any rational sense. A 0w-20 could indeed be a heavier fluid than a comparative 5w-20 at any temp yet have the CCS and MRV spec's that the 5w-20 cannot meet. That's the case with Mobil's M1 0w-30 vs. 5w-30

It's an extremely hard concept to wrap around if you aren't some physics major. I'm not one. We're used to dealing with (what's called) Newtonian fluids. When those fluids are described in their non-Newtonian terms, it's not easy to understand.



Bear...........so why not use the 10W-30 in this case vs the 5w-20. The 5w-20 offers very little practical cold weather benefit if any. AT 35 below in Canada,any normal engine is plug in and heated.

http://www.pennzoil.com/docume...yntheticMotorOil.pdf
Last edited by captainkirk

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