A Ford dealership here in Ontario will install Amsoil engine oil in their "Fast Lane" facility.
I haven't yet inquired as to oil change intervals.
Does anyone know?
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quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
AMSOIL oil and filter change intervals for vehicles in warranty can be found at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1490.pdf?zo=1181889 . Several new car dealerships offer AMSOIL for their cars under warranty.
quote:
They can, and do, require whatever oil you use to meet said specs for warranty coverage.
I haven't seen any owners manual that says "Use whatever oil and or weight you want."
Please do. I'd like to know which AMSOIL they install, and if they insist on following Ford's recommended oil change interval or do they say following AMSOIL's recommendations is fine. Thanks.quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.
I will try to find out.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Please do. I'd like to know which AMSOIL they install, and if they insist on following Ford's recommended oil change interval or do they say following AMSOIL's recommendations is fine. Thanks.quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
The reason I began this thread/subject is because a Ford dealer will install Amsoil oil. I do not know what types, though. Not sure if this is commonplace. They are heavily into racing Ford products.
I will try to find out.
quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...Number=825144&page=1
Magnason-Moss Act and Amsoil
After the 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty is up I go ahead and buy an extended warranty from Ford, I buy there Ford ESP Plan and take the warranty out to 100,000 miles.
Big Bear, does the above mean that one can purchase Ford's ESP after the purchase, but before the warranty runs out? I didn't purchase, but assumed that if you don't purchase ESP at time you purchased the vehicles, you're out of luck.
I'm assuming Ford Canada has same policy as Ford USA.
Can you clarify, please?
It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:It depends why the lubricated part went bad. If the lubricated part goes bad, because of a manufacturing defect, Ford pays. If the lubricant failed, then AMSOIL pays. It shouldn't take more than a few days to determine the cause of the failure. You might consider calling AMSOIL technical to verify.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:
Let's say it was a lubrication failure, like a rod or some other lubricated part that goes bad, your telling me that if Ford denies my warranty because I did extended drains with Amsoil, so Amsoil is going to jump in and take care of this in a few days, that sounds really optimistic, I just might have to go and let my Amsoil Rep read this thread and see what he thinks.
So, it is going to take Amsoil only a couple of days to send someone out and verify that it was there oil that failed. I am going to talk with my Amsoil Rep instead of calling the Amsoil Tech Line, at least with my Amsoil Rep I can look him in the eye when I talk with him as opposed to some carefully worded response from an Amsoil tech that is talking from a script to me from over the phone.
This all just sounds to good to be true, I think I will stick with the manufactures suggested OCI.
What were the problems?quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
A Honda writer told me of problems with Amsoil ATF used in an Accord., some universal fluid they offer.
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I'm reading at BITOG http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=1902558#Post1902558 that they seem to prefer AMSOIL ATF over the Honda Z1. It is unanimous so far in that thread. And in this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1852119&page=2 . And this BITOG thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...umber=1631140&page=7 .quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Poor shift quality, which was resolved by changing the fluid back to the Honda ATF. Customer was an avid DIY'er and decided to change his ATF to Amsoil ATF, according to the service writer the job was done properly. The guy took the car into Honda to have it checked out, they drained and refilled with Honda ATF problem solved. There are a few cases of this in some of the Honda forums I was told. I did not look for myself. There are also people satisfied with Amsoil ATF in Honda cars.
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So one quote from a Honda service writer about one transmission outweighs dozens of testimonials on BITOG? I've looked in and posted 5 threads so far and haven't found any AMSOIL ATF issues yet. They all said the AMSOIL ATF was better than the Honda Z1. Please post the issues about people having issues with the AMSOIL ATF. Several mentioned they got the idea to switch from the Honda Z1 to AMSOIL from the rave reviews AMSOIL got in Honda forums.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
I'm not talking about Bitog I'm talking about a Honda service writer Tim. I figured you'd ref that thread.
There are a lot of stories floating around about people having issues with Amsoil ATF. Look you'll find them.
Just like the issues they're having with their oil filters.
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Junk? What junk? I was trained as a chemist and research scientist. I don't know how the other AMSOIL rep was trained. We probably read similar AMSOIL and competitor technical information, motor oil publications, tribology books and testing.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Here are some Honda Techs and an Amsoil rep going at it. Seems you guys quote the same junk, is that how you were trained? Clones?
They both state their case. But the tie breaker is all the Honda customer posts that used both and prefer AMSOIL over the Honda Z1.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:I'd take the word of a Honda tech first.
Why did he tell you that? Which vehicle tranny/rear end was this for? What mfg approved juice did you use?quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Even my own mechanic, when I had the tranny/rear end fluid changed, told me it was best to stick with the mfg approved juice.
Even though the car isn't under warranty.
And he lets me bring in my own.
quote:Also, take a look at the MSDS for the Honda Z1. "Refined Mineral oil" 80-85% Hydrocrack and Hydrotreated paraffinic oil" Flash Point 186C min.
Compare to AMSOIL. 100% Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid .
Flash Point 220C.
quote:So the AMSOIL uses a much better chemical synthetic base oil and a much higher flash point than the petroleum nonsynthetic base Z1. I know which I would rather use. No wonder those that have used both, pick AMSOIL.
John, I listed them previously. Here the are again:quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:
Please list those that have used both. They way the statement reads is that it is all Amsoil users.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
And Ford, et al, doesn't require an UOA for warranty. All they require is that you follow said warranty conditions.
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
If API certification, the proper grade of oil, and the recommended interval didn't matter then the OM would most likely read something like this. Add what ever oil you want, run it as long as you want, just keep it full.
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quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
He is wrong. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals.
The man is giving his customers sound advise. Would you want to run oil with a TBN of ZERO. The UOA will give a snapshot of how the oil is doing.
I think he is giving poor advice. Why pay for UOAs when the oil has proven it has not caused a parts failure in 38 years?
If the vehicle is under warranty, and the failure was due to a manufacturing defect in the O-ring, then the vehicle manufacturer pays.quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame?
Most fleets extend their oil change intervals with the use of UOAs. Many fleets using AMSOIL also use UOAs when extending past the AMSOIL recommendation. In both cases, they usually do not change their oil until the UOA shows they should. In either case, it would show fuel dilution. Some trucks are known to have problems with fuel dilution, and AMSOIL does not recommend extended oil change intervals unless they do UOAs. If the fuel dilution caused the failure, then AMSOIL or any oil would not be liable. However, AMSOIL has shown that their oil holds up better than Rotella, Delo, Mobil and Valvoline with high levels of fuel dilution. See http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2752.pdf?zo=1181889 for details.quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
Then I suggest you talking with the AMSOIL Tech guy and ask him your questions.quote:Originally posted by Big Bear:quote:quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:You are making this whole thing sound like the car breaks down on a Monday and Amsoil and Ford resolved this Lightening Quick and you get the car back on Friday, give me a break.
It depends a lot on Ford. How long it takes them to do failure analysis and prove the oil failed. Once AMSOIL gets this in writing, they can authorize repairs on your car. They can later get reimbursed from Ford. Ford could also step and authorize repairs and get reimbursed from AMSOIL if they value you as a customer.
I hope we are on the same page that this process will take sometime, so now you say it depends on Ford, sorry I am not buddies with Mr. Ford, the CEO of the Company, so the Tech Guy in a sense is correct in that it will take sometime to get everything resolved, what is the time limit on something like this getting resolved, I do not have to show any proof, you are the Amsoil Salesman, not me, show us a case where everything was smooth sailing with an Amsoil Warranty Claim.
You are really sugar coating things here, that's why I like talking with the Amsoil Tech Guy, becuase at least I will be getting closer to the truth with him.
quote:Since AMSOIL stated "there has never been an engine failure attributed to the non-performance of AMSOIL products" I think the whole discussion is moot.
quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Bear:
Tim, I talked with my Amsoil rep last nite and it seems doing extended drains is not the easiest thing to do without some work and money by the guy doing the extended drains with Amsoil. He told me if your car is under warranty and the owners manual calls for a 5000 mile OCI and you want to run Amsoil for one year and lets pick 25,000 miles, you better be getting a UOA done every 5000 miles. He also said that each UOA at 5000 miles better look as good as Blackstones Universal Averages for a 5000 mile OCI. He said most of his customers are lucky to get about 13,000 miles out of the Amsoil motor oil while they are under warranty becuase of the driving they do.
He is wrong. No UOA is required when following AMSOIL's extended drain service intervals.
The man is giving his customers sound advise. Would you want to run oil with a TBN of ZERO. The UOA will give a snapshot of how the oil is doing.
I think he is giving poor advice. Why pay for UOAs when the oil has proven it has not caused a parts failure in 38 years?
Only a fool would extend drain intervals without doing oil analysis. What happens when you lose an O-ring in a injector, but the oil is still under the mileage warranty? Who'se to blame? Case in point - a fleet I work with has been doing extended drains for many years...with great success. A recent oil analysis showed fuel dilution. With that information, they tested other trucks in the fleet. Many trucks in the 800k mile range were starting to show fuel dilution. The problem was quickly identified (O-rings on injectors starting to leak) and taken care of before catastrophic failure. Assuming it was Amsoil in the engine and UOA wasn't necessary and eved discouraged as a waste of money, who would be to blame if they didn't catch the problem in time? My guess is Amsoil would blame the ULSD fuel and, of course, the end user.
The Ford warranty is not contingent on an approved oil or the oci if the oil did not cause the failure. This is discussed in the links below. If the Ford part was defective, Ford pays under their warranty. Ford has to prove AMSOIL was defective, which they have not in 38 years. If Ford proves the AMSOIL was defective, AMSOIL pays. Pretty simple.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Going with BB's above scenario, Ford is not going to pay. You used a non approved oil and went over the oci. In plain English, you failed to follow the warranty.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:The Ford warranty is not contingent on an approved oil or the oci if the oil did not cause the failure. This is discussed in the links below. If the Ford part was defective, Ford pays under their warranty. Ford has to prove AMSOIL was defective, which they have not in 38 years. If Ford proves the AMSOIL was defective, AMSOIL pays. Pretty simple.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Going with BB's above scenario, Ford is not going to pay. You used a non approved oil and went over the oci. In plain English, you failed to follow the warranty.
You can read what AMSOIL, the vehicle manufactures and consumer law says about AMSOIL and warranties at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2488.pdf?zo=1181889 .
Here is another link: http://www.amsoil.com/news/200...nties.pdf?zo=1181889 . Not sure how to make it any clearer than that.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Pablo does have a point though. Perhaps we should all let it go as we're at a stalemate.