Skip to main content

Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

Closed79 replies

Truly which synthetic brand of motor oil is the best?

C chMember
After much research I started using Amsoil Motor Oil approximately 12 years ago. Still for example in many publications like the Turbo Diesel Register and rv.net they report great reviews of Amsoil products. I drive about 500 miles a week to work and back round trip. In my 87 Toyota I have been using Amsoil 2000series oil and in my 99 Dodge Cummins pickup I been using Amsoil 3000 heavy duty turbo diesel oil. In both vehicles I conducted oil analysis about every 15,000 miles on the truck and every 25,000 miles on the car. The car has 350,000 miles on it and for example, after 35,000 miles on the same oil; the analysis says the oil is still in good condition and the truck after have 44,000 mile on the same oil; each time the oil analysis comes back saying the oil is in good condition. I do have the Amsoil bypass filtration system on both vehicles.

I am not trying to start a war. I am just trying to become better educated in the field of liberation as a consumer. What truly is the best brand of synthetic motor oil? What are the consumers and experts thoughts?

Chuck
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

G gurkhaMember
quote:
Originally posted by Callisa:
Well, I guess there is now such thing as a "best of all" oil. You could do the same discussion in another board asking for the best religion.
You will never get an appropriate answer.

If you are happy with your oil, then continue using it.


Very nicely said, it is as passionate as discussion on religion. Best oil is what keeps your engine happy mile after mile and doesnt hurt your pocket in return.
A abusMember
I agree to keep using whatever makes you happy, amsoil certainly has some very nice products, and you seem to have an excellent plan. However, for the sake of discussion:


Amsoil, has some great products, some OK products and some that are merely OK and overpriced (like their oil filters). Amsoil's dealer system allows some absolute morons to tarnish the entire organization (claiming that mobil 1 is group III based, outrageous OCI claims, etc). Amsoil's own marketing hypes tests (4-ball wear) that make their products look great, but have minimal relvance to actual conditions, espicially compared to performance on used oil analysis.

I'd say that Mobil products are the only syn oils availble over the counter worth using. In the Mobil 1 line, I'd say that the 10W30, 15W50, and 5W40 are excellent, and the others are slightly less impressive.



I don't trust Castrol enough to feel entirely comfortable with their only common syn oil, German 0W30.

I think that Redline, Royal Purple and Neo are overpriced, hard to find, and offer virtually no performance advantages, at least in engine oils.
C charliebMember
I've been in the lubricants business since 1979. I've sold and used just about every brand available. After my years of research, I'm now convinced that AMSOIL is the superior product line. My 1998 Ford E-350 has right at 415,000 miles on it, changing oil every 20,000 miles and oil filters ever 10,000. The savings in oil changes alone is enough to purchase a new van, and I might add, I don't need to.
C callisaMember
Quote:

I'd say that Mobil products are the only syn oils availble over the counter worth using. In the Mobil 1 line, I'd say that the 10W30, 15W50, and 5W40 are excellent, and the others are slightly less impressive.

I don't trust Castrol enough to feel entirely comfortable with their only common syn oil, German 0W30.

End of Qote

Well, I have seen two engine having run on a dyno under same test conditions, one with Mobil 1 0W-40 and one with a german version of Castrol Syntec 0W-30.

Mobil 1 is good, but Castrol is (at least in this engine, within this test) clearly the winner. Better piston cleanliness, better wear performance.
A abusMember
Ahh, I should have said "In North America", my apologizes.

I like Castrol 0W30, in fact, I use it in one of my personal cars. However, like I said, I'm not horribly comfortable with it, since Castrol seems to change their North American formulations on a whim, not to mention the shift from PAO to Group III without a drop in price, or notifying the consumer in anyway whatsoever.

I'm also hesitant to reccomend the 0w30 to the average consumer here since they will have to search quite a bit to find it in some areas, and definitely need to carefully check every bottle to weed out the Group III version.
H houcksterMember
I will have to weigh on this discussion with my own personal favorite: SynLube.

This formula is produced by a very small company but that doesn't mean that they just repackage an oil for sale. They have a unique product.

Composed of 3 solid (all in submicronic form) and 5 liquid lubricants, this oil is designed to last 150K miles/3K engine hours or 10 years. It can last this long because the components are almost entirely enert. And neither summer or winter extreme of temperature is a problem. It is appropriate for any gasoline engine (except rotaries) and any diesel, though the service life is 2K hours in this type engine. Dry lubrication conditions are completely eliminated.

This oil costs substantially more at purchase ($32/quart) but per mile is cheaper than most any oil out there. It is about a quarter of the cost of the 3K dino oil regimen, assuming $25 per change.

I have about 4 years of experience with this oil though that experience is divided out over three vehicles so I don't have any impressive personal figures to report yet. The longest in any one vehicle I have used this lubricant was 18K miles in a Ford Focus. Oil consumption during that time was 4.5 ounces. My current ride, a Ford Ranger has about 6K miles and I will be keeping this vehicle a long time.

At the end of the service life, the oil can be returned to the company and they will provide you with a credit towards the purchase of new oil. The old oil will be microfiltered and the additive package rebalanced. It will then be good as new and will have the same warranty.

They make similar products for the transmissions (both manual and automatic), differential, power steering etc. They have a coolant that lasts 300K miles.

When I first read about this oil, I was a bit skeptical as most people are but when I got back some good answers to my questions, I went ahead and tried their products. I have never had a problem.
M mikerMember
I would agree, oil is like religion and politics.

But I have been using Amsoil products since 1977 and am of the opinion they are the best. The price does not bother me because I never fell into the hype that oil has to be changed at 3000 or 5000 miles intervals. I change once yearly and that has proven very effective for my vehicles and my wallet.

All the complaining about this test and that test also has little influence on me. As for morons in the business of selling. I am afraid every field is afflicted and it not exclusive to Amsoil distributors. Just because one person finds someone a moron does not make it so.

I currently use Amsoil products in these vehicles;
1992 Chev 4x4 pickup (plow truck)
1993 Lumina Sedan (got new)
2002 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 (hotrod)
2004 GMC SLT Ext Cab Z71 (daily cruzer)
+
2001 Honda Rancher 4x4
2001 Honda lawn-mower
Huskavarna weedwacker and chain saw
E emMember
It's also depends a little bit on the region you live, the base stocks available and the blenders being used of course...and not to forget the available additive packages. I know there are a lot of oil companies in Europe which have products which have different characteristics per country, due to the facts mentioned above.
C callisaMember
quote:
Originally posted by Callisa:
Quote:

I'd say that Mobil products are the only syn oils availble over the counter worth using. In the Mobil 1 line, I'd say that the 10W30, 15W50, and 5W40 are excellent, and the others are slightly less impressive.

I don't trust Castrol enough to feel entirely comfortable with their only common syn oil, German 0W30.

End of Qute

Well, I have seen two engine having run on a dyno under same test conditions, one with Mobil 1 0W-40 and one with a german version of Castrol Syntec 0W-30.

Mobil 1 is good, but Castrol is (at least in this engine, within this test) clearly the winner. Better piston cleanliness, better wear performance.
T tallpaulMember
quote:
Originally posted by Callisa:
What's so special about Redline? Their marketing, or their products?

Definitely the product. Quality is their goal and price falls where it may. At least with Redline you should be able to be assured of getting the company's best effort at producing an oil. Other companies, subject to competition, will invariably have to cut costs.

I believe Redline is the best oil in certain applications, such as racing, but certainly not for the family car as in that application it would be overkill. Not being an expert, though, I am hoping to hear from others at this site who may know more about Redline.

I do feel that Redline is a great way to go for gear lube and transmission fluid, applications where the oil is in the unit for much longer time and thus the high cost is justified IMO.
C callisaMember
quote:
Definitely the product. Quality is their goal and price falls where it may. At least with Redline you should be able to be assured of getting the company's best effort at producing an oil. Other companies, subject to competition, will invariably have to cut costs.


I always look at the releases of an oil to understand what capabilities it has. But I do not see many releases on their top products. How do I seperate marketing from quality?
T tallpaulMember
quote:
Originally posted by Callisa: I always look at the releases of an oil to understand what capabilities it has. But I do not see many releases on their top products. How do I seperate marketing from quality?
Not sure what you mean by "releases," but they do have a listing of technical data at the website. Are you looking at the UK Redline site or the USA site (which I am more familiar with and is redlineoil.com)?
T tallpaulMember
quote:
Originally posted by Callisa:
quote:
Not sure what you mean by "releases,"


e.g.
VW 502.00
Ford WSS...
BMW Longlife-02
ACEA A3/B3/B4

These are releases. More releases (and up to date!) means better for me.

I have another rather stupid question.
What is "Dino" oil? Is this a simpel mineral based oil? Or is it a special brand?


I don't see releases on the Redline site. They do show the API service classes.

Dino, oh yeah. A term that is flung around a lot at the oil guy site. I guess in the industry the term used is "conventional." Yep, just a term for mineral oil, Group I through II+. But what is Group III, synthetic or dino? Both?
T tallpaulMember
Calissa, Very interesting link. So Nexbase 3000 is a Group III that is different from, and apparently better than, other Group III base oils. Also, did I see something about it being lower cost? I would not mind using Group III at more reasonable prices. Picked up some NAPA synthetic, which likely is group III, for only $2.69 a bottle on sale. But typical Group III based multigrade in USA is around $4 a bottle and you can get Mobil 1 PAO on sale for that, so why get Group III. But I think over time there will be a focus on the boundary area between synthetic and conventional and Group II+ and III will become more prevalant, but the USA consumer must get over the 3000 mile oil change that has been pounded into their heads by the oil companies, especailly those that have quick lube type establishments.
T tallpaulMember
sorry, I apparently was not clear and you misunderstood. I realize Nexbase is a base oil supplier, but I thought they were getting a lower priced product that hopefully would be reflected in lower retail oil prices.

Ha Ha, at least my wayward playing with oil is providing amusement for you and likely many others. They probably think "these Americans have too much money and no sense." But I know I don't need all this extra stuff. I just like to play around with the stuff.
M mgbv8Member
Dinio is Mineral

For hot temperature performance an ester is needed, so RL Motul Silkolene use these in race oils.

Shell and Castrol use a more refined GIII with nearly as good performance as PAO but cheaper.

However fairly certain in top range motorsport oils these are GIII PAO and ester blended. The blend may produce a better oil as an overall package but difficult to tell but RL on paper would appear to be best.

With racing Fuel dilution can be a problem hence the 10W60 oils from Motul and Castrol.

These products are being used in extreme circumstances which are not normally needed in road cars.

As far as I am aware in Germany Sythetic oil has to be a true synthetic and not GIII, so German Castrol could be a better basestock.

Castrol also sell Magnatec which is mineral but with esters for start up protection, PAO's are not polar.
A analysisguyMember
Consider using oil analysis to determine the "best" lube for your vehicles. Good labs and analysts are able to provide background to aim you in the correct direction from the myriad of reports they view and study.

All the "releases" and bench testing are not the actual real world operation that a used oil analysis will provide in the hands of the experienced analyst.
M mgbv8Member
Redline is based on polyol esters ideally suited for the higher temperature applications where the performance of diesters and PAOs begin to fade, ie racing.

The other off the shelf similar product is Motul, and Silkolene has 20% diester with PAO, good for say a road track car.

I assume M1 Castrol Shell use esters in greater quantities in their oils used for motorsport rather than off the shelf version oils.

Dino = made in the time of the dinosaurs
K kevinMember
"Composed of 3 solid (all in submicronic form) and 5 liquid lubricants, this oil is designed to last 150K miles/3K engine hours or 10 years. It can last this long because the components are almost entirely enert."

$32/Qt. ! Wow ! I'm not questioning the quality of the oil but I do have a question - How do you market this type of cost to your client's ? Even here on this site where we find many very intelligent oil folks and you can hear many comments about how an oil that costs $ 6.00/qt. is too much. My main reason for asking is simply this: If you're marketing your product to a trucking company with large sumps, how do you sell them on up front cost -vs- value being purchased ? This would be a substantial investment for a company with 60 over-the-road diesels. Thanks in advance.
H houcksterMember
KEVIN: With regard to trucking firms, I am not very familiar with their needs and problems so I can't say but SynLube does have trucking customers who apparently find the oil worthwhile. The HSHT of this oil is 5.0cP which is extremely important for truckers since the engine is almost always under heavy load. I understand that engines with SynLube installed when new last over 1,000,000 miles.

With regard to individual users like you and I, the economies of this lubricant are undeniable, even if you do your own oil changes. On one of the previous posts I did provide an example of the savings that SynLube provides and their website also discusses this advantage.

Plug in your costs for the oil you currently use over a 150K mile or ten year period and contrast that with SynLube. You will readily see that you should save at least a couple of hundred dollars. Of course, much more important to me is that I don't have to change the oil and the engine protection, in my opinion, is second to none. No one that I've known to try this oil has been disappointed.

Oil consumption has been on the order of 40-60K miles per quart on the vehicles I've had with SynLube in them.
T tallpaulMember
quote:
Originally posted by Callisa:
HTHS is one of the most missunderstood characterisrics of oil. Having an extreme high HTHS value gives no security at all. I don't understand why people don't understand this.
I would like to know more about this. It seems to me that, since HTHS is a measure of viscosity, one would want it to be within a reasonable range, not too high, not too low. I would suspect diesels would need a higher HTHS than gasoline engines which have excellent durability with oils having HTHS viscosity in the range of about 3.0 to 3.6 cSt. The new 5w20 oils with HTHS below 3.0 do make me hesitant, but for now my older vehicles do not spec such thin oils.
H houcksterMember
RE HSHT:
quote:
Even more important is the High-Shear High-Temperature MINIMUM specification in SAE J300. In tables below you will notice that there are "two" SAE 40 specifications, one with minimum HSHT value of 2.9 cP for Automotive Oils (SAE 0W-40; 5W-40; 10W-40) and the other for Heavy Duty Oils (HDO) (SAE 15W-40; 20W-40; 25W-40; 40).

This double specification is at insistence of heavy duty engine manufacturers who have required HSHT viscosity limits consistent with good engine durability in high-load, severe service operation. HSHT value of 3.7 cP or 27% more viscous oil at 150ºC (300ºF).

Yes, a 27% increase in viscosity makes a difference between Automotive engine that lasts 100,000 miles and Truck engine that lasts 1,000,000 miles!

When you consider that most Automotive Motor Oils are ONLY 3 cP, while our SAE 5W-50 SynLube™ Lube-4-Life™ Motor Oil has rating of 5 cP, you can readily appreciate why we can claim 300% to 500% increase in typical Automotive engine durability, and that is with substantial "safety" reserve!

C callisaMember
quote:
It seems to me that, since HTHS is a measure of viscosity, one would want it to be within a reasonable range, not too high, not too low.

HTHS is a virtual dynamic viscosity at 150°C and a shear rate of 20 m/sec. It was "invented" due to the fact at the beginning of the 80's engines failed with oil of an HTHS < 2,0.
During a SAE congress in the 80's, all members agreed, that the available data showed that an HTHS > 2,5 is fair enough for every engine on the market in those days.
High HTHS values give you a fuel penalty. Depending on your engine, you will experience a higher fuel consumption of 2% if you use an oil with HTHS of 5 instead of 2,9.
Either your engine is durable, or it is not. If it is durable, high HTHS values don't give you a "safety margin". Thats especially true for your normal car, and that's also true for Diesel engines. Roll Eyes
H houcksterMember
SynLube has this to say about fuel consumption in regard to viscosity:
quote:
If you are leasing a vehicle, then the BETTER mileage parameter is definitely more important as well as cost effective. You just do not care how long will engine last on a car that you will only operate for 24,000 to 36,000 miles. But how many gallons of fuel you will burn will make a difference.

If you own your vehicle for the long haul, or indefinitely, then SAE 5W-50 is absolute must!

That is why SynLube Lube-4-Life is available ONLY in that grade, since we guarantee 300,000-mile service life from engines that were engineered to last no more than 100,000 to 150,000 miles. It makes that much difference!

But due to unique colloidal technology used in SynLube™ Lube-4-Life™ you still get mileage benefit that is 1.6% to 2% better than even SAE 5W-20 petroleum motor oils that are now used by OEM's.


Actually, SynLube does make a 5W20 oil on request but only guarantees it for 70K miles.
T timerMember
Redline uses a different ASTM method for HT/HS than Valvoline , Pennzoil and other oil makers .

Sorry , I cannot recall the differences in these methods .

Solids . All moly's are solids correct ? Even the newer oil soluable type used in most car oils ?

quote:
Originally posted by MGBV8:
Redline HTHS

15W-50 5.8 M1 15W-50(5.11)
20W-50 6.1

Redline should go on forever and no need for solid additives.
Next
Post
attend Reliable Plant 2024

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×