Thanks my question is if a 20 grade oil is spec'd and used and the engine fails because the oil was too "thin" "CAFE" as you said who eats the repair? Not in Kathy's case just a general question?
AD
Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity
I would think a good car maker like Ford would have done lots of testing, I mean a ton of it. If the oil thinned out of grade causing damage, how could the engine be at fault? Assuming in my example there was no fuel dilution. I'd think the oil company would be at fault. Like it or not I think thin is in, and in the not so distant future you'll see 0w10, and people saying they'll use 0W20 in its place because 0W10 is too thin?
Happy 4th to all,
AD
Happy 4th to all,
AD
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Trajan said.........
[QUOTE]If I were Kathy,I would have drawn an oil sample first,and never have told ford the exact OCI. She did get off the hook 80% though in the end.
Hey Captain, is it possible that "Cathy Covington" got screwed by the "stealership" and paid the big bucks, is because she's a female? Naaa...
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Isn't it amazing the attitude of those 'ASE' certified mechanics. Some(not all),think they are 'Gods' once they get certified.
You are right-on about many mechanics. I've got one living next door who never fails to mention how clever he is when he replaces a defective/warn part in his driveway for peanuts when we, their customers, pay out hundred of green backs. These guys hate spending money on their rides but expect us to pay through the nose. They must be laughing their collective guts out while our cars are on the hoist as they fix our rides for hundreds if not thousands of dollars. It's the Service Departments that keep stealerships from going TU, not the showrooms.
quote:Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
The v-10 has a different crankshaft design from the v-8s. It uses a split throw on the rod journals for even firing(bad idea)and is drilled differently for rod bearing oiling. A fully groved main bearing would provide a 100% increase in oil volume to the rod bearing,but they dont use one.They could do alot better. There are alot of racers using 0-20 and producing over 1000 horse power with the 4 valve v8 without bearing problems. Most would probably like to use heavier oil but pressure to the valve train is not regulated.This will cause the hydraulic cam followers to pump up in the early 4 valve heads and hold the valve open if thick oil is used. That would be bad. Thin oil bleeds off faster and allows this engine to rev to over 9000 rpm,without bearing problems. Later high performance modular 4 valve engines use a miniature hydraulic cam follower with a higher bleed rate that allows heavier oil to be used. They spec 5w-50 in that engine.I dont know if the bearing clearance have changed for the supercharged engines , but all modular ford are a select bearing fit engine,meaning they fit each engine with the exact size bearing required to get the clearances perfect. 5w-40 full synthetic would be my choice for A motorhome with a v-10.
Bk,Thanks for all the Great tech info about the ford v-10 engine.
I agree with the 5w-40 choice(devlac?) in a motorhome,and I doubt Kathy,or anyone else would have ever revved the engine to 9k causing any issues.
I agree they will never see racing RPMs. My car wont either. But what they will do is load their motorhome up with every thing they can pack and then maybe hook a small car/boat or what ever to the back and head out. When they get to the hills we have around the area I live in nor cal they will plant their foot on the floor and hold it there. The highways around here are 6% at least and some are 10%. The pull can last for an hour depending on your destination. This is where they build heat,heat and more heat.Its 100 plus in the summer and depending on the direction you are traveling ,there can be a prevailing tail wind stealing radiator efficiency.Brutal conditions and still some wont let up.The lucky ones boil over the radiator stop get towed what or ever. Some just burn flat to the earth right where they stop. I used to pass 1 or 2 per week in the summer when I was hauling lumber out of southern oregon into northern california. Certainly not all ford v-10s but you can see how even with very few miles these things take a real ass kicking.
Here is a picture of A motor on a test stand doing WOT testing.note the exaust manifolds. Ive actually seen this on an old gas powered dump truck behind the front tire going down the road in morning sunlight. brutal conditions.
http://image.mustang50magazine...exhaust_manifold.jpg
Here is a picture of A motor on a test stand doing WOT testing.note the exaust manifolds. Ive actually seen this on an old gas powered dump truck behind the front tire going down the road in morning sunlight. brutal conditions.
http://image.mustang50magazine...exhaust_manifold.jpg
Those are some pretty brutal conditions. I read somewhere that the 20 grade oils were better at cooling than the thicker oils because they flow better and carry heat away faster. Any truth to that?
What oil was in that Stang?
AD
What oil was in that Stang?
AD
quote:Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
I have read that the base oil is what affects heat carrying capacity. I dont know which is better or for what reasons though. The light oils pump more efficiently and superior volume may carry away more heat. I have no way to test this so its guessing. The 5.0 engine in the picture is using 5w-20! The testing procedure detailed in this link is tuff. I am to stubborn to believe that 5w-20 protects BETTER than a heavier oil. But it does pass their tests. http://www.mustang50magazine.c...te_engine/index.html
Thanks, if a 20 wt oil can stand up to that heat, if my engine calls for it I'm using it. No point in second guessing the car maker. CAFE or not, the 2 grade looks solid to me!
AD
AD
The new 5.0 Mustang calls for a 5w-20. I wouldn't second guess them.
If 5W20 was in fact used in that engine in the picture, I have no reason to think otherwise. I'd say it can handle heat, and quite well at that. Bottom line is stick to what is spec'd for the engine, if they give choices match the oil to the climate and the job planned for the engine.
AD
AD
MC is a good oil. Grp III/II blend with a good additive package. Ford put this oil through very extensive testing and they are very happy with it.
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
5w-20 vs 30.........quote....
"5W-20 is used PURELY for gas milage for Ford. The Ford Explorer calls for 5w-20 yet the Mountaineer that uses the EXACT same motor, all parts are interchangable and has the same engine code, calls for 5w-30. My S10 uses 5w-30 or 10w-30 I've gone to amsoil15W-40 desiel oil with out a problem. The reason for doing so was for higher oil pressure during cold days."
AFAIK Ford doesn't recommend 5W20 in their 4.0L Explorer, it was one of the engines not back spec'd from 5W30 to 5W20 because of the oil pump the engine uses.
Ford as extensively tested 5W20 in desert heat towing, then there are several fleets across the USA using 5W20 with great results. This topic has been beaten to death all over the internet. This is turning into the classic which is better Ford or Chevy debates.
5W20 has been in use for several years now and many Ford products have logged over 250,000-300,000 miles without issue.
I would use it in an application that calls for it, having said that if my engine calls for 5W30 I would not use 5W20.
AD
quote:
It is hard to reconcile the claim that you use synlube when your own link says: "check your owner's manual and insist on the correct weight of quality oil."
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:
It is hard to reconcile the claim that you use synlube when your own link says: "check your owner's manual and insist on the correct weight of quality oil."
--------------------------------------------
I do check/read my owners manual(what a joke-at times),and I also read the shop repair manual(differs from the owners manual-more trustworthy),and I don't "insist" on anything,I simply do what I know is best,and install what I want. I do the research and due diligence!
Those who have no clue,or confidence, are the ones who should have their vehicles serviced exclusively by the dealer/professional(what the link I posted infers).........perhaps Trajan,you are in that category.........so be it!
The link I posted is not, "my own link",as you imply,it's just a link I posted showing an article written by someone else(Schleeter)that discusses the issues of sludge, why it exists,what causes it,and how synthetic oil prevents it! The owners manual mentioned in the link was not what the article was really about,it was about sludge,and the benefits of SYNTHETIC OIL.
Funny thing.............the mention of the owners manual was only if you're on a budget...
"On any vehicle, if you can't afford synthetic oil, check your owner's manual and insist on the correct weight of quality oil. "
However,if you're not on a budget then........
# Make sure the shop that services your car uses the highest quality oil (brand name, full synthetic). Synthetic oil adds only $16.00 to $30.00 to an oil change. Read why synthetic prevents sludge build-up>
# Ask for a high-quality oil filter. The cost difference is less than $2.00.
Read why synthetic prevents sludge build-up>
I hope these newer cars not only use algorithms telling when to change the oil,but also sensors to actually measure the condition of the oil,and check for things like water,and glycol.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/0...amed-on-dilatory-dr/
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/0...amed-on-dilatory-dr/
Now I know why only about three or four people post on this site.
quote:Originally posted by Mokanic:
Now I know why only about three or four people post on this site.
Registered Members: 5211
Noria Corporation Forums
Online Now: 58
So,are you the forth person posting this time around,MOKANIC...........or are you number 58?
Kindly share what it is..........YOU CLAIM TO KNOW based on your above remark,we are all waiting to be englightened!
The picture posted by BLK98MK8LSC at:
http://image.mustang50magazine...exhaust_manifold.jpg
Is an interesting observation, but not an uncommon phenomenon for just about any engine worked for extended periods under less than ideal conditions. Timing, mixture and simple heat buildup over time will all contribute to this phenomenon, more or less in literally any but the stoutest industrial designs. What you see there is simply a normal result of elevated EGT (exhaust gas temperature) and in no way indicative of what the oil may be exposed to in terms of it's temperature or temperature dissipation properties. It is heat affecting basically the piston crown, head (exhaust side) and exhaust tubing.
Assuming the engine's cooling system is operating correctly and loaded within it's capacity, that phenomenon has no affect on the oil, except possibly in turbocharged applications.
Cool pic, tho.
http://image.mustang50magazine...exhaust_manifold.jpg
Is an interesting observation, but not an uncommon phenomenon for just about any engine worked for extended periods under less than ideal conditions. Timing, mixture and simple heat buildup over time will all contribute to this phenomenon, more or less in literally any but the stoutest industrial designs. What you see there is simply a normal result of elevated EGT (exhaust gas temperature) and in no way indicative of what the oil may be exposed to in terms of it's temperature or temperature dissipation properties. It is heat affecting basically the piston crown, head (exhaust side) and exhaust tubing.
Assuming the engine's cooling system is operating correctly and loaded within it's capacity, that phenomenon has no affect on the oil, except possibly in turbocharged applications.
Cool pic, tho.
quote:Originally posted by Alternator:
The picture posted by BLK98MK8LSC at:
http://image.mustang50magazine...exhaust_manifold.jpg
Is an interesting observation, but not an uncommon phenomenon for just about any engine worked for extended periods under less than ideal conditions. Timing, mixture and simple heat buildup over time will all contribute to this phenomenon, more or less in literally any but the stoutest industrial designs. What you see there is simply a normal result of elevated EGT (exhaust gas temperature) and in no way indicative of what the oil may be exposed to in terms of it's temperature or temperature dissipation properties. It is heat affecting basically the piston crown, head (exhaust side) and exhaust tubing.
Assuming the engine's cooling system is operating correctly and loaded within it's capacity, that phenomenon has no affect on the oil, except possibly in turbocharged applications.
Cool pic, tho.
If your exaust manifold is cherry red,you better believe you're frying the oil........and it better be high quality synthetic oil,or the oil will sludge if it's petroleum!
I think you need to do a little 'research' before you voice your opinion.
You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts!
JUST SOME MORE PHOTOS....
http://i91.photobucket.com/alb...em/passant18t002.jpg
http://www.neuwerks.com/albums...4/IMG_8815.sized.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/alb...einz031/P1010088.jpg
The above are shots from a typical VW 1.8T WHICH ARE known to sludge due to.......'HEAT' from the turbo!
I would have to agree .quote:Originally posted by Alternator:
The picture posted by BLK98MK8LSC at:
http://image.mustang50magazine...exhaust_manifold.jpg
Is an interesting observation, but not an uncommon phenomenon for just about any engine worked for extended periods under less than ideal conditions. Timing, mixture and simple heat buildup over time will all contribute to this phenomenon, more or less in literally any but the stoutest industrial designs. What you see there is simply a normal result of elevated EGT (exhaust gas temperature) and in no way indicative of what the oil may be exposed to in terms of it's temperature or temperature dissipation properties. It is heat affecting basically the piston crown, head (exhaust side) and exhaust tubing.
Assuming the engine's cooling system is operating correctly and loaded within it's capacity, that phenomenon has no affect on the oil, except possibly in turbocharged applications.
Cool pic, tho.
quote:Assuming the engine's cooling system is operating correctly and loaded within it's capacity, that phenomenon has no affect on the oil, except possibly in turbocharged applications.
What sort of instrumentation did you use to arrive at that conclusion.
quote:hips offer AMSOIL for their cars under warranty.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tim
well learnt it....
