New thread about Schaeffer Oil products. Anyone out there use it? Heard about it? What do you think?
Original Post
Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity
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I've never used it. My opinion is it is one of the better brands and I like their data sheets, but probably not the best. Depends on which one and the application. None seem to be API SN certified http://eolcs.api.org/licenseAg...ntService.aspx?id=32 . Are you a rep?
Yes...Seems to be some outdated information you have. Many of the multi-grade over the road oils are API SN certified. Listed on the TD sheets, on the API donut on the bottles. If it were not certified, Schaeffer's would face huge penalties for advertising it as such.
This applies to the 701,703,704,705 and the 9003. That list is just what I looked up and may not be complete.
This applies to the 701,703,704,705 and the 9003. That list is just what I looked up and may not be complete.
Did Schaeffer not renew their API SN certification recently? I understand that the API website is current and lists no Schaeffer Certified API SN. From today's http://eolcs.api.org/licenseAg...ntService.aspx?id=32 .
Brand Name #701 SUPREME 7000
SAE Viscosity Grade 5W-30
Service Category SM
Performance Designation Energy Conserving
Brand Name #702 MOLY SUPREME 7000
SAE Viscosity Grade 40
Service Category SH
Performance Designation
Brand Name #702 MOLY SUPREME 7000
SAE Viscosity Grade 30
Service Category SH
Performance Designation
Brand Name #702 SUPREME 7000
SAE Viscosity Grade 40
Service Category SJ
Performance Designation
Brand Name #703 SUPREME 7000
SAE Viscosity Grade 10W-30
Service Category SM
Performance Designation Energy Conserving
Brand Name #704 SUPREME 7000
SAE Viscosity Grade 5W-20
Service Category SM
Performance Designation Energy Conserving
Brand Name #705 SUPREME 7000 RACING
SAE Viscosity Grade 20W-50
Service Category SM
Performance Designation
Brand Name #711 SUPREME 7000 SYNTHETIC PLUS
SAE Viscosity Grade 10W-30
Service Category CI-4,CJ-4/SM
Performance Designation CI-4 PLUS
Brand Name #750 SUPREME 7000 PLUS
SAE Viscosity Grade 15W-40
Service Category CH-4,CI-4,CJ-4/SM
Performance Designation
I see on this data sheet that it meets and exceeds API SN, but does not indicate that it is certified. http://www.schaefferoil.com/cm...701,703,704%20TD.pdf
Brand Name #701 SUPREME 7000
SAE Viscosity Grade 5W-30
Service Category SM
Performance Designation Energy Conserving
Brand Name #702 MOLY SUPREME 7000
SAE Viscosity Grade 40
Service Category SH
Performance Designation
Brand Name #702 MOLY SUPREME 7000
SAE Viscosity Grade 30
Service Category SH
Performance Designation
Brand Name #702 SUPREME 7000
SAE Viscosity Grade 40
Service Category SJ
Performance Designation
Brand Name #703 SUPREME 7000
SAE Viscosity Grade 10W-30
Service Category SM
Performance Designation Energy Conserving
Brand Name #704 SUPREME 7000
SAE Viscosity Grade 5W-20
Service Category SM
Performance Designation Energy Conserving
Brand Name #705 SUPREME 7000 RACING
SAE Viscosity Grade 20W-50
Service Category SM
Performance Designation
Brand Name #711 SUPREME 7000 SYNTHETIC PLUS
SAE Viscosity Grade 10W-30
Service Category CI-4,CJ-4/SM
Performance Designation CI-4 PLUS
Brand Name #750 SUPREME 7000 PLUS
SAE Viscosity Grade 15W-40
Service Category CH-4,CI-4,CJ-4/SM
Performance Designation
I see on this data sheet that it meets and exceeds API SN, but does not indicate that it is certified. http://www.schaefferoil.com/cm...701,703,704%20TD.pdf
Because of your comment, I contacted Schaeffer Technical Support. They report it is current. They also confirm the classification can not be listed on the API stamp if it were not current. On every Supreme 7000 label the API donut is clearly marked API SN indicating appropiate licensing.
Thank you Mr. Morgan. I also contacted Schaeffer and waiting for their email response. Can you provide me with a label showing API SN Certification? I can't find it on their website. I found one picture of the API SN oil, but it did not have the API label on the front. Maybe it is on the back?
Also, can you provide a written parts and labor warranty for the motor oils? I couldn't find that on the website either.
Also, does any Schaeffer oil list Dexos 1?
Also, can you provide a written parts and labor warranty for the motor oils? I couldn't find that on the website either.
Also, does any Schaeffer oil list Dexos 1?
Schaeffer's has a $1,000,000 per occurance product liability insurance policy backed by a full written warranty. I am willing to provide those documents to any of my clients with whom I have personal contact.
The API Donut is typically on the back label. This is a common industry practice. If you require verification I urge you to find a Houston area retailer. I'm happy to provide you a 10% discount so you can buy a case on-line.
Schaeffer's Oil already exceeds Dexos specifications and has for many years. As for listing "Dexos" on the label and paying royalties to GM for an oil we've been making for nearly 50 years, I don't have an answer. That will be a corporate decision if GM is allowed to continue with those plans. However, A number of manufacturers and associations has GM tied up with litigation over those requirements. Schaeffer intends to stay neutral and allow those proceedings to advance.
Schaeffer's is a 172 year old, ISO 9001:2008 certified company. It is not possible for them to have been in business that long, obtain an internationally recognized manufacturing certification without solid business practices and meeting appropiate licensing requirements. Schaeffer's integrity is in tact.
Amsoil restricts information to its dealers, let alone competitors. I am not compelled to provide documentation to an Amsoil Dealer. Instead, I focus on the excellent performance and cost effectiveness of my products. I have no fear of my competitors therefore, no reason to attack them.
Thanks for the opportunity to showcase Schaeffer Specialized Lubricants.
The API Donut is typically on the back label. This is a common industry practice. If you require verification I urge you to find a Houston area retailer. I'm happy to provide you a 10% discount so you can buy a case on-line.
Schaeffer's Oil already exceeds Dexos specifications and has for many years. As for listing "Dexos" on the label and paying royalties to GM for an oil we've been making for nearly 50 years, I don't have an answer. That will be a corporate decision if GM is allowed to continue with those plans. However, A number of manufacturers and associations has GM tied up with litigation over those requirements. Schaeffer intends to stay neutral and allow those proceedings to advance.
Schaeffer's is a 172 year old, ISO 9001:2008 certified company. It is not possible for them to have been in business that long, obtain an internationally recognized manufacturing certification without solid business practices and meeting appropiate licensing requirements. Schaeffer's integrity is in tact.
Amsoil restricts information to its dealers, let alone competitors. I am not compelled to provide documentation to an Amsoil Dealer. Instead, I focus on the excellent performance and cost effectiveness of my products. I have no fear of my competitors therefore, no reason to attack them.
Thanks for the opportunity to showcase Schaeffer Specialized Lubricants.
Because it allows competitors to put out misinformation and makes it easier to impeach them. Most people I've worked with are not concerned with the oil warranty, just their equipment warranties. I carry copies of all that documentation with me as do most Schaeffer Reps.
API received all the required documents more than 6 weeks ago, well before the expiration date. Maybe they're behind on updating their website? Without further investigation, during business hours, all of your questions are pure conjecture. Schaeffer's Chief Chemist has been notified of the web info and will resolve it.
The "Dexos" specs, due to litigation, don't really exist yet. They were suppose to go into effect 2010-2011. Again, due to legal challenges that has been delayed. That is why GM is not collecting royalties yet. Proof that Schaeffer oils exceed Dexos spec's are on the TD Sheets, if in fact you know what those spec's are going to be. I noticed you didn't mention Dexos II.
Restricted information: Amsoil is a great product, got nothing bad to say about it. You clearly were not aware of the GM-Dexos situation. I've talked to many Amsoil dist and have basis for my comment.
An open forum is not an appropiate place for chest pounding. This point-counter point approach is better suited in a different venue. I'm trying to set a couple of appointments in the Houston area. If I am able to do that, I'm happy to buy you lunch and we can continue this debate.
API received all the required documents more than 6 weeks ago, well before the expiration date. Maybe they're behind on updating their website? Without further investigation, during business hours, all of your questions are pure conjecture. Schaeffer's Chief Chemist has been notified of the web info and will resolve it.
The "Dexos" specs, due to litigation, don't really exist yet. They were suppose to go into effect 2010-2011. Again, due to legal challenges that has been delayed. That is why GM is not collecting royalties yet. Proof that Schaeffer oils exceed Dexos spec's are on the TD Sheets, if in fact you know what those spec's are going to be. I noticed you didn't mention Dexos II.
Restricted information: Amsoil is a great product, got nothing bad to say about it. You clearly were not aware of the GM-Dexos situation. I've talked to many Amsoil dist and have basis for my comment.
An open forum is not an appropiate place for chest pounding. This point-counter point approach is better suited in a different venue. I'm trying to set a couple of appointments in the Houston area. If I am able to do that, I'm happy to buy you lunch and we can continue this debate.
So are you saying you haven't received information yet from API saying it is currently API SN Certified? If so, then it likely isn't certified yet? But it likely meets API SN. So have any bottles been packaged with the API SN donut after it expired and before it has been currently certified?quote:Originally posted by JMorgan:
API received all the required documents more than 6 weeks ago, well before the expiration date. Maybe they're behind on updating their website? Without further investigation, during business hours, all of your questions are pure conjecture. Schaeffer's Chief Chemist has been notified of the web info and will resolve it.
So if the Dexos specs don't exist yet, how do you know Schaeffer meets them? GM's 2011 owners manual recommends that oil labels say they meet Dexos 1 and many oil companies already say that.quote:Originally posted by JMorgan:The "Dexos" specs, due to litigation, don't really exist yet. They were suppose to go into effect 2010-2011. Again, due to legal challenges that has been delayed. That is why GM is not collecting royalties yet. Proof that Schaeffer oils exceed Dexos spec's are on the TD Sheets, if in fact you know what those spec's are going to be. I noticed you didn't mention Dexos II.
I did a search on "Dexos1" on AMSOIL's site and found 19 documents. I found no documents on the Schaeffer site. Lubrizol works closely with AMSOIL on the Dexos1 specs and formulations and has info on their site. I am well versed in Dexos1.quote:Originally posted by JMorgan:Restricted information: Amsoil is a great product, got nothing bad to say about it. You clearly were not aware of the GM-Dexos situation. I've talked to many Amsoil dist and have basis for my comment.
No chest pounding here. You asked what we thought of Schaeffer's and I gave my opinion and asked questions. I'll be glad to meet with you anytime. Thank you for your generous offer.quote:Originally posted by JMorgan:An open forum is not an appropiate place for chest pounding. This point-counter point approach is better suited in a different venue. I'm trying to set a couple of appointments in the Houston area. If I am able to do that, I'm happy to buy you lunch and we can continue this debate.
Getting back to your original question, I have used Schaeffer products and have been impressed. I turned a friend on to 7000 15W-40 syn blend who was concerned about leaks in his high mileage Powerstroke 7.3, and he was very pleased with the performance. He mentioned several things that I knew he would notice, easier cold starts, better fuel economy, and no leaks. He switched from conventional 15W-40 LE product. He had finally finished up a drum he had purchased years ago. He was happy with the price I was able to get him for several gallon cases with free shipping. Also, he mentioned that his Amish-Mennonite father had used Schaeffer oil years ago in PA on the farm (with good results), so the name was not foreign to him. I have had very good results with Schaeffer oils, Penetro, Moly 132, Neutra, 5W-40, 5W-20, Diesel Treat,7000 15W-40, Racing 7000 20W-50, 5W-50, and the list goes on. No disappointments. I am of the opinion that Schaeffer products are one the the best kept secrets in lubrication. I also like the no-hype approach. Their products always deliver.
I found this rather interesting!
Re: Lubrication Engineers 5w30 vs. Others???? [Re: Johnny]
bmwtechguy
Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 2230
Loc: South Carolina I know a local Amish-Mennonite guy here who was using LE HDEO in his 97 Powerstroke and farm equipment. Not sure which product number, but I know it was 15W-40 conventional, and this was 5 years ago. By the time it came to buying some more LE, he found his distributor here had decided to get out of the busines and he had referred him to me. I hooked him up with some Schaeffers 7000 15W-40 Synthetic Plus blend and he reported back later that his truck had picked up 1 or 2 miles per gallon consistently and that his engine started more easily in cold weather. The Schaeffers cost him less and seemed to perform better in this case.
I have never personally used any LE products, but have always read good things about them.
Top
You must get tired of telling that story.
quote:Originally posted by bmwtechguy:
Getting back to your original question, I have used Schaeffer products and have been impressed. I turned a friend on to 7000 15W-40 syn blend who was concerned about leaks in his high mileage Powerstroke 7.3, and he was very pleased with the performance. He mentioned several things that I knew he would notice, easier cold starts, better fuel economy, and no leaks. He switched from conventional 15W-40 LE product. He had finally finished up a drum he had purchased years ago. He was happy with the price I was able to get him for several gallon cases with free shipping. Also, he mentioned that his Amish-Mennonite father had used Schaeffer oil years ago in PA on the farm (with good results), so the name was not foreign to him. I have had very good results with Schaeffer oils, Penetro, Moly 132, Neutra, 5W-40, 5W-20, Diesel Treat,7000 15W-40, Racing 7000 20W-50, 5W-50, and the list goes on. No disappointments. I am of the opinion that Schaeffer products are one the the best kept secrets in lubrication. I also like the no-hype approach. Their products always deliver.
Re: Lubrication Engineers 5w30 vs. Others???? [Re: Johnny]
bmwtechguy
Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 2230
Loc: South Carolina I know a local Amish-Mennonite guy here who was using LE HDEO in his 97 Powerstroke and farm equipment. Not sure which product number, but I know it was 15W-40 conventional, and this was 5 years ago. By the time it came to buying some more LE, he found his distributor here had decided to get out of the busines and he had referred him to me. I hooked him up with some Schaeffers 7000 15W-40 Synthetic Plus blend and he reported back later that his truck had picked up 1 or 2 miles per gallon consistently and that his engine started more easily in cold weather. The Schaeffers cost him less and seemed to perform better in this case.
I have never personally used any LE products, but have always read good things about them.
Top
You must get tired of telling that story.
Thanks for your input. Lubricaton Engineers makes a great product. An increase in fuel mileage following LE is a great testiment and not the 1st time I've heard about such success.
quote:Originally posted by JMorgan:
Thanks for your input. Lubricaton Engineers makes a great product. An increase in fuel mileage following LE is a great testiment and not the 1st time I've heard about such success.
My input was "tongue in cheek". Perhaps I should have said I found it more Hilarious than interesting. The funny part to me was bmwtechguy chiming in like someone who has tried the shaeffer you are trying to sell on this forum. But, in reality, he is another sales rep like you as documented by his post on BITOG from over a year ago. It is basically the same Amish-Mennonite "canned speech". My guess is that you probably know/work with the guy and he is a schill trying to help you get some business.
Ok then...At least your intentions are now known. I was confused by the last comment. Let me make my intentions known. Brand awareness...Yes I take care of my family through sales. My job is educational in nature. The oil companies rely heavily on consumer ignorance. Think about it, do you know how a grease is built? Many dont. No insult intended to anyone, ignorance is simply a lack of knowledge about a particular topic. Manufacturers take advantage of that. Ever see the movie "Thank You For Smoking"? Do you honestly believe anyone from Chevron, Shell or BP gives a crap about you? That's why I chose to work for a "small" company.
As for the other guy. "Schill"...Really...Never heard that story before nor do I know the author. Maybe he is a Schaeffer rep...I don't know. Come to think of it, maybe your the schill with Amsoil for Tim Vipond with a less aggresive approach. Tim doesn't need that kind of help and neither do I. Conspiracy theory aside, I'm skilled enough to get my point across without having to resort to tactics like your suggesting or blitz another supplier out of fear. Hands down I can prove a cost advantage. Any product that can compete with our performance is going to be more expensive, any product that competes with us on price, can't touch the performance. Either way cost advantage is Schaeffer's.
Hopefully we can be done with the hostility. Would anyone like to ask some legitimate questions that could help? I'll rely on the old adage: Be part of the solution not part of the problem.
As for the other guy. "Schill"...Really...Never heard that story before nor do I know the author. Maybe he is a Schaeffer rep...I don't know. Come to think of it, maybe your the schill with Amsoil for Tim Vipond with a less aggresive approach. Tim doesn't need that kind of help and neither do I. Conspiracy theory aside, I'm skilled enough to get my point across without having to resort to tactics like your suggesting or blitz another supplier out of fear. Hands down I can prove a cost advantage. Any product that can compete with our performance is going to be more expensive, any product that competes with us on price, can't touch the performance. Either way cost advantage is Schaeffer's.
Hopefully we can be done with the hostility. Would anyone like to ask some legitimate questions that could help? I'll rely on the old adage: Be part of the solution not part of the problem.
Hi JMorgan,
Is there a public Schaeffer price list somewhere?
BTW, I see that three of Schaeffer's para-synthetic products are now listed as API SN certified at API.org. Thought I'd clear that up...
Is there a public Schaeffer price list somewhere?
BTW, I see that three of Schaeffer's para-synthetic products are now listed as API SN certified at API.org. Thought I'd clear that up...
Hey Tim,
Hope you don't mind my reference to you, I just don't believe either of us are incompetant that we need to stoop to the tactics that were suggested.
The only public price list available is listed on the Schaeffer site under "Buy Now". Of course those are closer to retail prices.
Wholesale pricing is regional. A $350 minimum order is required for free shipping to anywhere in the continental US. A 3% discount is available for those who want to take advantage. However, no membership fee is required for wholesale pricing like at Costco or Sam's Club.
Hope you don't mind my reference to you, I just don't believe either of us are incompetant that we need to stoop to the tactics that were suggested.
The only public price list available is listed on the Schaeffer site under "Buy Now". Of course those are closer to retail prices.
Wholesale pricing is regional. A $350 minimum order is required for free shipping to anywhere in the continental US. A 3% discount is available for those who want to take advantage. However, no membership fee is required for wholesale pricing like at Costco or Sam's Club.
Thanks! When I get some time I want to do some AMSOIL/Schaeffer price/value comparisons. Are you game?
An intregueing proposal, seems like that would be showing my cards at the poker table. I don't mind doing the comparison except there is no contract to win and you will know my approach. Many people on the forum look at us as a nuisance and a "match" would serve as fodder for them. Moreover, I'm concerned about forum administrator sanctions.
On the other hand it's a great opportunity to "put up or shut up". If this can be done without sanctions, I'm game.
On the other hand it's a great opportunity to "put up or shut up". If this can be done without sanctions, I'm game.
Great!
I'd like to start with comparing full synthetic, CJ4 oils (required for 2007 and newer vehicles) since that is a Schaeffer oil that I have seen at a customer and would like to learn more about.
Pricing:
AMSOIL lists their internet price as $80.40 + $11.84 shipping for a case of 12 qts of their OED 15w40 = $92.24. https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/oed.aspx?zo=1181889 . A good full synthetic oil for those not interested in extending oil change intervals beyone OEM recommendations, and that can live with slightly lesser typical properties than the Schaeffer full synthetic oil.
Schaeffer 9000 5w40 full synthetic oil for $90.72 + $30 shipping = $120.72 (per Schaefferoil.com website) for OEM recommended oil change intervals with extended possible with UOA.
AMSOIL DEO 5w40 for $119.70 + $11.84 shipping for $131.54. $10.82 more than the Schaeffer, but you get warranted extended oil change intervals without the cost/need for a UOA:
"SERVICE LIFE
AMSOIL Premium API CJ-4 Synthetic 5W-40 Diesel Oil (DEO) is recommended for extended drain intervals in engines that are unmodified and in good operating condition:
Diesel Engine Service
Three times (3X) OEM* recommendation, not to exceed 50,000 miles/600 hours or one year, whichever comes first. Drain intervals may be extended further with oil analysis.
2007-2009 Caterpillar C13 and C15 on-highway engines must follow OEM drain interval.
2007-Present Dodge, Ford and GM light-duty diesel pickups must follow OEM-recommended drain interval. Drain intervals may be extended with oil analysis.
Gasoline Engine Service
Two times (2X) OEM* recommendation, not to exceed 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
*Operating conditions and drain intervals for normal and severe service are defined by the OEM. Refer to your owner’s manual.
Note: Extended drain intervals are not recommended when using biofuels containing >10% ethanol or 5% biodiesel (B5). Follow OEM drain intervals or extend drain intervals with oil analysis.
https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/deo.aspx?zo=1181889 . "
So to me of the three, the AMSOIL OED offers the best full synthetic CJ4 internet delivered price, and the AMSOIL DEO offers the best value per mile when extending oil change intervals.
I'd like to start with comparing full synthetic, CJ4 oils (required for 2007 and newer vehicles) since that is a Schaeffer oil that I have seen at a customer and would like to learn more about.
Pricing:
AMSOIL lists their internet price as $80.40 + $11.84 shipping for a case of 12 qts of their OED 15w40 = $92.24. https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/oed.aspx?zo=1181889 . A good full synthetic oil for those not interested in extending oil change intervals beyone OEM recommendations, and that can live with slightly lesser typical properties than the Schaeffer full synthetic oil.
Schaeffer 9000 5w40 full synthetic oil for $90.72 + $30 shipping = $120.72 (per Schaefferoil.com website) for OEM recommended oil change intervals with extended possible with UOA.
AMSOIL DEO 5w40 for $119.70 + $11.84 shipping for $131.54. $10.82 more than the Schaeffer, but you get warranted extended oil change intervals without the cost/need for a UOA:
"SERVICE LIFE
AMSOIL Premium API CJ-4 Synthetic 5W-40 Diesel Oil (DEO) is recommended for extended drain intervals in engines that are unmodified and in good operating condition:
Diesel Engine Service
Three times (3X) OEM* recommendation, not to exceed 50,000 miles/600 hours or one year, whichever comes first. Drain intervals may be extended further with oil analysis.
2007-2009 Caterpillar C13 and C15 on-highway engines must follow OEM drain interval.
2007-Present Dodge, Ford and GM light-duty diesel pickups must follow OEM-recommended drain interval. Drain intervals may be extended with oil analysis.
Gasoline Engine Service
Two times (2X) OEM* recommendation, not to exceed 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
*Operating conditions and drain intervals for normal and severe service are defined by the OEM. Refer to your owner’s manual.
Note: Extended drain intervals are not recommended when using biofuels containing >10% ethanol or 5% biodiesel (B5). Follow OEM drain intervals or extend drain intervals with oil analysis.
https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/deo.aspx?zo=1181889 . "
So to me of the three, the AMSOIL OED offers the best full synthetic CJ4 internet delivered price, and the AMSOIL DEO offers the best value per mile when extending oil change intervals.
Tim...Brother...Why are you so aggressive? Please tell me you don't overwhelm your clients with so much information they have trouble processing it. It took me a few readings to work through your post.
First of all anyone who extends drain intervals beyond double without UOA is foolish. How much are your UOA's? Last I heard it was $25.00 per sample but thats been awhile back. Since part of extended drain intervals is trend analysis, it's gonna take at least 3 and probably more to establish trends. Add $75.00 to your Amsoil calculations.
Secondly, doesn't Amsoil require (for extended DI's) Amsoil filters? Is there an Amsoil bypass system to be purchased? My information comes from former Amsoil customers, they may be confused how the system is suppose to work. If filters are required, you'll need to add those costs to your calculations.
Third, Noone, let me reiterate, NOONE I work with pays the price you used for your comparison. Even my clients who buy from the internet get a 10% discount. Reduce your Schaeffer calculations to $81.65(10% discount off the internet price). I only have a few out of state clients who occasionally buy a single case item off the internet. Aside from those occassional purchases, all my clients pay wholesale pricing without having to pay membership or administrative fees.
Fourth, The Supreme 9000 is our full synthetic line. Unless my clients insist on full synthetic, operate in extreme cold temps in the north or have OEM requirements, I rarely recommend the Supreme 9000. With the way our synthetic blend is constructed, it is capable of the extended drains and extreme protection of the Supreme 9000. However, we should keep this comparison apples to apples.
Finally, My target client base is business. Schaeffer gives significant bulk discounts. The cost per gallon in barrels is less than cost per gallon in cases of quarts. Additionally, with a small minimum of $350, Schaeffer pays all shipping and handling. More over, I have multiple clients who take advantage of 3% below wholesale as a qualifying discount. Schaeffer converts report an increase in fuel mileage even over Amsoil. Schaeffer's average fuel mileage increase is over 5%. The customers switching from Amsoil that I've talked to say they achieved between 2% and 3%.
Amsoil has name recognition and a broader product line. The performance characteristics are similar. Take all things into consideration the cost advantage belongs to Schaeffer.
I would prefer to avoid the aggressive point counter-point tactic you resorted to previously. I was hoping to establish some periameters before diving into this comparison but your like a dang pit bull. Your obviously very successfull with Amsoil and I'm happy for you. I think I've established I'm fairly successfull as well. I chose not to participate any further for fear of alienating the readers. As I said before its clear many here believe salespeople are a nuisance. Lets not prove them right.
First of all anyone who extends drain intervals beyond double without UOA is foolish. How much are your UOA's? Last I heard it was $25.00 per sample but thats been awhile back. Since part of extended drain intervals is trend analysis, it's gonna take at least 3 and probably more to establish trends. Add $75.00 to your Amsoil calculations.
Secondly, doesn't Amsoil require (for extended DI's) Amsoil filters? Is there an Amsoil bypass system to be purchased? My information comes from former Amsoil customers, they may be confused how the system is suppose to work. If filters are required, you'll need to add those costs to your calculations.
Third, Noone, let me reiterate, NOONE I work with pays the price you used for your comparison. Even my clients who buy from the internet get a 10% discount. Reduce your Schaeffer calculations to $81.65(10% discount off the internet price). I only have a few out of state clients who occasionally buy a single case item off the internet. Aside from those occassional purchases, all my clients pay wholesale pricing without having to pay membership or administrative fees.
Fourth, The Supreme 9000 is our full synthetic line. Unless my clients insist on full synthetic, operate in extreme cold temps in the north or have OEM requirements, I rarely recommend the Supreme 9000. With the way our synthetic blend is constructed, it is capable of the extended drains and extreme protection of the Supreme 9000. However, we should keep this comparison apples to apples.
Finally, My target client base is business. Schaeffer gives significant bulk discounts. The cost per gallon in barrels is less than cost per gallon in cases of quarts. Additionally, with a small minimum of $350, Schaeffer pays all shipping and handling. More over, I have multiple clients who take advantage of 3% below wholesale as a qualifying discount. Schaeffer converts report an increase in fuel mileage even over Amsoil. Schaeffer's average fuel mileage increase is over 5%. The customers switching from Amsoil that I've talked to say they achieved between 2% and 3%.
Amsoil has name recognition and a broader product line. The performance characteristics are similar. Take all things into consideration the cost advantage belongs to Schaeffer.
I would prefer to avoid the aggressive point counter-point tactic you resorted to previously. I was hoping to establish some periameters before diving into this comparison but your like a dang pit bull. Your obviously very successfull with Amsoil and I'm happy for you. I think I've established I'm fairly successfull as well. I chose not to participate any further for fear of alienating the readers. As I said before its clear many here believe salespeople are a nuisance. Lets not prove them right.
Thanks Tim, I appreciate the fact we can be competitors. We will continue to disagree because we both have absolute faith in our programs.
I'm not sure anyone could follow all the twist and turns we have thrown out trying to prove our points. I think the only thing we've been able to accomplish is confusing people. You haven't convinced me and I haven't convinced you. The numbers have become convaluted. Any further "comparisons" would only result in the same.
I'm not sure anyone could follow all the twist and turns we have thrown out trying to prove our points. I think the only thing we've been able to accomplish is confusing people. You haven't convinced me and I haven't convinced you. The numbers have become convaluted. Any further "comparisons" would only result in the same.
I think for the scenarios above, we have shown that AMSOIL OED offers the better price and AMSOIL DEO best value per mile with extended oil changes compared to Schaeffer 5w40 9000. Schaeffer may want to see if they can improve. If you or anyone else would like to try another product and/or scenario, I am game.
I also think we have shown that knowledgeable dealers for either brand can get consumers better prices, value and a better product for their needs than a retail store or internet purchase.
I also think we have shown that knowledgeable dealers for either brand can get consumers better prices, value and a better product for their needs than a retail store or internet purchase.
I completely agree with your second comment. I think you and I can bring great value to our respective clients. As far as the first comment, I don't believe "we" have shown anything to support your claim. I also believe the info became so distorted it can't support my claim either. Just because you say it more than once doesn't make it true.
"Schaeffer may want to see if they can improve." Back to the same aggressive demeanor I have been referring to. There is no question about Amsoil or Schaeffer quality. Both companies have exceptional products with honorable histories. More tact may serve you.
"Schaeffer may want to see if they can improve." Back to the same aggressive demeanor I have been referring to. There is no question about Amsoil or Schaeffer quality. Both companies have exceptional products with honorable histories. More tact may serve you.
JMorgan,
You said "Any product that can compete with our performance (i.e. Schaeffer) is going to be more expensive, any product that competes with us on price, can't touch the performance. Either way cost advantage is Schaeffer's." Just because you've said this more than once, doesn't make it true.
I showed that the AMSOIL OED is less expensive and has similar properties and change intervals as Schaeffer 9000. I also showed that AMSOIL DEO might cost a little more, but more than makes up for that with warranted extended oil changes. You have shown nothing to prove your statement.
Perhaps you shouldn't make statements that you can't back. I'm giving you every chance. Pick a scenario and your product and see if you can prove your statement. I've shown the opposite to be true in price, value and performance.
You said "Any product that can compete with our performance (i.e. Schaeffer) is going to be more expensive, any product that competes with us on price, can't touch the performance. Either way cost advantage is Schaeffer's." Just because you've said this more than once, doesn't make it true.
I showed that the AMSOIL OED is less expensive and has similar properties and change intervals as Schaeffer 9000. I also showed that AMSOIL DEO might cost a little more, but more than makes up for that with warranted extended oil changes. You have shown nothing to prove your statement.
Perhaps you shouldn't make statements that you can't back. I'm giving you every chance. Pick a scenario and your product and see if you can prove your statement. I've shown the opposite to be true in price, value and performance.
Your giving me every chance to be manipulated and bullied into submission. It aint gonna happen. You keep going for the last word. You twist and turn until noone can follow the thread or just gets bored like I am. Kudos on the strategic hijack. I get it. Since your so confident you proved yourself, how about giving me info on your next several contract bids and lets go head to head where it counts. I don't think so.
I've commented a couple of times I'm not going to continue due to these manipulations and you've gone from aggressive to insulting. Your moving from pit bull to imbalanced woman. I'm all for friendly competition. Everyone deserves to earn a living and there is enough room in this field for all of us. You've been aggressive from the beginning. I chalked it up to over enthusiasm, but now it seems to be more of a character flaw. I think readers would be more comfortable if the string were terminated.
I've commented a couple of times I'm not going to continue due to these manipulations and you've gone from aggressive to insulting. Your moving from pit bull to imbalanced woman. I'm all for friendly competition. Everyone deserves to earn a living and there is enough room in this field for all of us. You've been aggressive from the beginning. I chalked it up to over enthusiasm, but now it seems to be more of a character flaw. I think readers would be more comfortable if the string were terminated.
I'm just asking you to prove your statement "Any product that can compete with our performance (i.e. Schaeffer) is going to be more expensive, any product that competes with us on price, can't touch the performance. Either way cost advantage is Schaeffer's." Should be an easy thing to do if it is true. Since you have refused several times now, I guess we can conclude it not to be true. Especially since you have resorted to name calling.
I'll gladly compete with you on a bid as you challenged. Would anyone here like to save time and money and upgrade their next lubricant purchase? Let's see what we can do for you! No contracts, minimum purchases or obligations. Wholesale prices 20% or more below AMSOIL.com or schaefferoil.com factory internet retail prices. Free full warranty for all parts and labor should the lubricants fail when used as recommended, even for recommended extended oil change intervals. Still game, Mr. Morgan?
As far as your "I think readers would be more comfortable if the string were terminated." I disagree as this thread has a lot of good pricing and discount information and hopefully clarified what is and is not needed for extended oil changes. It also has around 585 views. Maybe it is you who would be more comfortable if this string were terminated?
I'll gladly compete with you on a bid as you challenged. Would anyone here like to save time and money and upgrade their next lubricant purchase? Let's see what we can do for you! No contracts, minimum purchases or obligations. Wholesale prices 20% or more below AMSOIL.com or schaefferoil.com factory internet retail prices. Free full warranty for all parts and labor should the lubricants fail when used as recommended, even for recommended extended oil change intervals. Still game, Mr. Morgan?
As far as your "I think readers would be more comfortable if the string were terminated." I disagree as this thread has a lot of good pricing and discount information and hopefully clarified what is and is not needed for extended oil changes. It also has around 585 views. Maybe it is you who would be more comfortable if this string were terminated?
This type of bickering is exactly what I was trying to avoid. This is what gives sales people a bad rep on these forums. This is exactly why I was initially reluctant to do this with you. The thread has 585 views because they're laughing at us. They want to see just how retarded this is going to get. This is unprofessional and irrational.
You take an internet price for the Supreme 9000 and go with it like it's written in stone. I give you information pointing out inaccuracies in your comparisons and you ignore them, all along twisting and distorting information. Then just arbitrarily declare victory. I'M NOT GOING TO PARTICIPATE with all the manipulations. How many years has Amsoil pushed UOA at $25.00 a piece. Now, one isn't necessary in spite of the 25,000 mile drain interval claim. Amsoil sells filters. I've had Amsoil guys try and sell me before this job. They always pushed extended di's requiring Amsoil filters. Now any filter will do? Last I checked, about 7 months ago, the Amsoil website said that doesn't apply to "extreme use" vehicles and then gave a conserative definition(favoring Amsoil)of extreme use. In extreme use vehicles Amsoil web site said no more than 10,000 mile di's. That information was omitted in your disclaimers(another example of manipulation). You keep pushing "warrantied" like its unique to Amsoil. I've already addressed Schaeffer's warranty and product liability. I started this in good faith, you omit information you don't like then hammer a perceived advantage. Manipulations associated with a disreputable used car salesman. I'll say it again, I'm not going to participate with all the manipulations. Another comparison would result in the same tactics. I don't believe your capable of anything else. I praise Amsoil performance. It is one of the products capable of playing on the same field as Schaeffer's. Your tactics are not worthy of your clients loyolty. It's obvious your only in this business for the money.
I'll concede one thing. In this fictious scenario, with the manipulations and inaccuracies, Amsoil showed more cost effective. You win...Now go away. You will no doubt have to have the last word.
You take an internet price for the Supreme 9000 and go with it like it's written in stone. I give you information pointing out inaccuracies in your comparisons and you ignore them, all along twisting and distorting information. Then just arbitrarily declare victory. I'M NOT GOING TO PARTICIPATE with all the manipulations. How many years has Amsoil pushed UOA at $25.00 a piece. Now, one isn't necessary in spite of the 25,000 mile drain interval claim. Amsoil sells filters. I've had Amsoil guys try and sell me before this job. They always pushed extended di's requiring Amsoil filters. Now any filter will do? Last I checked, about 7 months ago, the Amsoil website said that doesn't apply to "extreme use" vehicles and then gave a conserative definition(favoring Amsoil)of extreme use. In extreme use vehicles Amsoil web site said no more than 10,000 mile di's. That information was omitted in your disclaimers(another example of manipulation). You keep pushing "warrantied" like its unique to Amsoil. I've already addressed Schaeffer's warranty and product liability. I started this in good faith, you omit information you don't like then hammer a perceived advantage. Manipulations associated with a disreputable used car salesman. I'll say it again, I'm not going to participate with all the manipulations. Another comparison would result in the same tactics. I don't believe your capable of anything else. I praise Amsoil performance. It is one of the products capable of playing on the same field as Schaeffer's. Your tactics are not worthy of your clients loyolty. It's obvious your only in this business for the money.
I'll concede one thing. In this fictious scenario, with the manipulations and inaccuracies, Amsoil showed more cost effective. You win...Now go away. You will no doubt have to have the last word.
Does this mean you won't provide any proof of your statement "Any product that can compete with our performance (i.e. Schaeffer) is going to be more expensive, any product that competes with us on price, can't touch the performance. Either way cost advantage is Schaeffer's."?
And you won't compete on your bid challenge?
And you won't compete on your bid challenge?
Happy to...in front of a legimate prospective client where it isn't a waste of my energy.
Do you consider a member here posting a bid request and responding to it publicly, legitimate? I do.
Figures... For all I know you have one of your cohorts waiting for instructions. No...Someone I can set down with face to face. Evaluate the business, the requirements, the expectations. None of your friends or family.
Never crossed my mind. But I'll be glad to help your cohorts, businesses, friends, family and anyone else get better products, value and warranty for less money just as I have my current 406 direct clients.
(Ephesians 4:29) Good for you Tim. I knew you were successfull. Thanks for sharing that very impressive number, 406 "direct" clients. With your Amsoil knowledge base I would think you would be a trainer in your area. I apologize for being snippy in previous posts, It hasn't been very Christian of me. I saw this scripture this morning and felt bad for my behavior. I should have been praying for you instead. Good luck in all your future endeavors.
Not a problem. I've been praying for you as well.
Very perceptive. I am assisting a dozen others with their own independent AMSOIL dealership businesses. I learn a lot from them. It's been fun watching their businesses grow. If you need anything, just ask.
Very perceptive. I am assisting a dozen others with their own independent AMSOIL dealership businesses. I learn a lot from them. It's been fun watching their businesses grow. If you need anything, just ask.
quote:Originally posted by JMorgan:
New thread about Schaeffer Oil products. Anyone out there use it? Heard about it? What do you think?
JMorgan, I have a friend out west who has used Schaeffer Oil and he liked it, sure seems like Schaeffer's has been around for quite sometime.
I just cannot figure out why an Amsoil Salesman is in a Schaeffer's Oil Thread, guess we can call it Trolling.
Tim, I know you were on here before, and you did not answer my question in that other thread, since you have been a nuasance in this thread then why not man up and tell us why you have been Banned twice on BITOG as well as getting Banned from at least 10 other Forums.
This Thread is about Schaeffer's Oil, nobody asked any questions about Amsoil, I wonder how Amsoil Corporate would feel if they were too read your posts on this Forum, you owe us a response and an apology in this thread, if not, then a phone call too Amsoil will happen very soon.
He asked a question and I answered it. Didn't know I could not participate.quote:Originally posted by TarHeel:quote:Originally posted by JMorgan:
New thread about Schaeffer Oil products. Anyone out there use it? Heard about it? What do you think?
JMorgan, I have a friend out west who has used Schaeffer Oil and he liked it, sure seems like Schaeffer's has been around for quite sometime.
I just cannot figure out why an Amsoil Salesman is in a Schaeffer's Oil Thread, guess we can call it Trolling.
I just got back from a 300 mile motorcycle ride with a bunch of friends. I think I was banned because either the moderators or sponsors did not like my positive AMSOIL comments. Feel free to read my posts. I don't think any were deleted.quote:Originally posted by TarHeel:Tim, I know you were on here before, and you did not answer my question in that other thread, since you have been a nuasance in this thread then why not man up and tell us why you have been Banned twice on BITOG as well as getting Banned from at least 10 other Forums.
My response was about Schaeffer Oil . JMorgan as the OP brought up AMSOIL and I felt since he did, it deserved a response.quote:Originally posted by TarHeel: This Thread is about Schaeffer's Oil, nobody asked any questions about Amsoil, I wonder how Amsoil Corporate would feel if they were too read your posts on this Forum, you owe us a response and an apology in this thread, if not, then a phone call too Amsoil will happen very soon.
Tim, since you are an Amsoil Rep I think it is strange that you are in this Thread, if you were not an Amsoil Dealer, then it would be fine, all you have done is cause trouble for the OP.
You know exactly why you were Banned from BITOG, when you get banned from BITOG, Helen tells you exactly why you are banned when you try and Log In.
You know exactly why you were Banned from BITOG, when you get banned from BITOG, Helen tells you exactly why you are banned when you try and Log In.
I've used Schaeffer grease and gear oils in my personal vehicles for the past few years. Excellent products. I'm new to the forums.
Thanks,
Thanks,
quote:Originally posted by johnpr3:quote:Originally posted by JMorgan:
Thanks for your input. Lubricaton Engineers makes a great product. An increase in fuel mileage following LE is a great testiment and not the 1st time I've heard about such success.
My input was "tongue in cheek". Perhaps I should have said I found it more Hilarious than interesting. The funny part to me was bmwtechguy chiming in like someone who has tried the shaeffer you are trying to sell on this forum. But, in reality, he is another sales rep like you as documented by his post on BITOG from over a year ago. It is basically the same Amish-Mennonite "canned speech". My guess is that you probably know/work with the guy and he is a schill trying to help you get some business.
I am not a Schaeffer rep. I have used both Amsoil and Schaeffer products and been happy with both and still use both brands. However for many apps, including diesel engines or other engines that can benefit from a top quality 15W-40 or 5W-40 diesel-rated oil, for several reasons that I will not go into, I have chosen Schaeffers and keep both of those in stock here at my shop. As of March 1st, I buy $375 min worth of Schaeffer products to get the free shipping. The only person that I order the 7000 15W-40 for is the Mennonite guy, whose Powerstroke 7.3 now has over 300k miles and still going strong with 10k mile oil/filter changes. Everything else I order from Schaeffers are products I use or install for customers. It is really rediculous that because I told the same experience on BITOG and here, that someone assumes I am a Schaeffer rep. I was only telling of one interesting (to me) experience. I have many many others that I will probably not share. BITOG used to be a great place and I loved to read on there and post there, but because of people like the one who called me out for telling the same experience twice and then stating like it was a fact that I was just a rep, I have not spent much time on there the last few years. People like that don't seem to have much to add, except to start trouble and turn what used to be a great and fun website into a big soap opera. This will be my only response to this foolishness.
Don't let them bother you bmwtechguy. I think I know your rep, we were at the Schaeffer National Convention together. I find people who want to get ridiculous have either been duped by some scheister grease salesman or they just operate from a position of fear and ignorance because its comfortable for them. They know what they have and are too afraid to try some different. I see it everyday. The head mechanic won't try it for fear of losing his job. The administer won't try for fear of wasting his time. The owner won't try for fear of being taken advantage of. It takes a lot of courage to pay attention and follow through. Thanks for your input.
