Well Kirk I look at it this way, at least with the certs the consumer has something to go by. Vs. dealers trying to make a buck pushing a product that isn't certified. Lets use beef for an example, I'd rather have "Grade A Beef" that passed USDA standards than something imported from a country that has no standards at all. I trust the USDA before someone who is paid selling non cert. meat, telling me its good beef. No thanks!
AD
Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Well Kirk I look at it this way, at least with the certs the consumer has something to go by. Vs. dealers trying to make a buck pushing a product that isn't certified. Lets use beef for an example, I'd rather have "Grade A Beef" that passed USDA standards than something imported from a country that has no standards at all. I trust the USDA before someone who is paid selling non cert. meat, telling me its good beef. No thanks!
AD
There is No comparison between between food and a man made product,like motor oil. You don't eat motor oil,you blend it from base stocks.
"dealers trying to make a buck"--------What about the major bucks big oil is making,and it's all certified too!........Doesn't it feel so much better when you're getting..... "officially robbed" by a certified robber!
Show me where the lack of any API "CERTS",has led to any legal,or quality issues with motor oil products.
quote:
There is No comparison between between food and a man made product,like motor oil. You don't eat motor oil,you blend it from base stocks.
"dealers trying to make a buck"--------What about the major bucks big oil is making,and it's all certified too!........Doesn't it feel so much better when you're getting..... "officially robbed" by a certified robber!
Show me where the lack of any API "CERTS",has led to any legal,or quality issues with motor oil products.
As far as food, man raises, cares for, and feeds the animal, then kills it, and brings it to market. Ever eat beef in Mexico?
Here we go with proof, show me proof the non certified oil is better? Not sales propaganda, or bogus tests.
AD
What are these guys(API) really all about...
The association’s chief functions on behalf of the industry include advocacy and negotiation with governmental, legal, and regulatory agencies; research into economic, toxicological, and environmental effects; establishment and certification of industry standards;
Lobbying
API has spent more than $3 million annually for each the last five years (2005 to 2009) on lobbying, and $3.6 million in 2009.[3] In API’s latest quarterly “Lobbying Report” submitted to the US Senate, the organization reported that it had 16 lobbyists supporting it to lobby on various Congressional activities.[4]
http://www.api.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A..._Petroleum_Institute
SOUND LIKE POLITICS TO ME! JUST ANOTHER BUREAUCRACY!
This reminds me of how BP got "certified" just before the well blew out!
The association’s chief functions on behalf of the industry include advocacy and negotiation with governmental, legal, and regulatory agencies; research into economic, toxicological, and environmental effects; establishment and certification of industry standards;
Lobbying
API has spent more than $3 million annually for each the last five years (2005 to 2009) on lobbying, and $3.6 million in 2009.[3] In API’s latest quarterly “Lobbying Report” submitted to the US Senate, the organization reported that it had 16 lobbyists supporting it to lobby on various Congressional activities.[4]
http://www.api.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A..._Petroleum_Institute
SOUND LIKE POLITICS TO ME! JUST ANOTHER BUREAUCRACY!
This reminds me of how BP got "certified" just before the well blew out!
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:
There is No comparison between between food and a man made product,like motor oil. You don't eat motor oil,you blend it from base stocks.
"dealers trying to make a buck"--------What about the major bucks big oil is making,and it's all certified too!........Doesn't it feel so much better when you're getting..... "officially robbed" by a certified robber!
Show me where the lack of any API "CERTS",has led to any legal,or quality issues with motor oil products.
As far as food, man raises, cares for, and feeds the animal, then kills it, and brings it to market. Ever eat beef in Mexico?
Here we go with proof, show me proof the non certified oil is better? Not sales propaganda, or bogus tests.
AD
Funny how he cries about oil makers and "major bucks." When this "synlube", even on ebay, costs more than three times what M1 costs from say, Pep Boys.
Haven't seen a VOA where M1 failed. Seen synlube ones though.
Tell that to my uncle running PYB in an F Series Ford now approaching 275K. Sorry Kirk Pigs will fly before I put Synlube in anything I own. Especially since there is no real business address.
AD
AD
Lamont- You sound just like my uncle with the F series Ford. He says "for the most vehicles PYB, Mobil 5000, GTX, or any good dino would have made his old Ford last just as long as the very best A*******l brew." He doesn't buy into salesman's tales, or marketing hype.
He says use the recommended grade oil, change it, change the filters, and drive. I remember him asking a know it all type pushing expensive oil to prove him wrong, he's still waiting. I'm glad he set me straight, for a while I fell for he hype.
AD
He says use the recommended grade oil, change it, change the filters, and drive. I remember him asking a know it all type pushing expensive oil to prove him wrong, he's still waiting. I'm glad he set me straight, for a while I fell for he hype.
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
He says use the recommended grade oil, change it, change the filters, and drive.
AD
Good advice. I use what I do not because it's a "special" car, but because that is what is called for.
If it was spec'd for dino oil, I'd use that. That's what I used in every other car from the 1964 Buick to the 1997 Camaro.
A $32 bottle of goo? Not when what I know works is only $6.27
Data is still not the plural of anecdote.
No matter how hard synlubers try.
The only reasonable oxplanation for proper analysis being "unreliable" is inconsistent batch control of the product being tested.
Yes, the tests have accuracy windows, but they aren't huge.
No matter how hard synlubers try.
The only reasonable oxplanation for proper analysis being "unreliable" is inconsistent batch control of the product being tested.
Yes, the tests have accuracy windows, but they aren't huge.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trajan:
Even the 2010 Camaro V6 uses dino. If dino oils were bad, no car maker would spec them for engines. No one would buy them.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/...gine+specifications&
All that wonderful engine technology,and then install low tech oil? No,thanks!
Oh,wait............looks like I was right after-all about using synthetic in the V6 Camaro...I knew Gm wouldn't make such a bad choice with motor oil of all things........
//////Engine- (GM recomends using synthetic engine oil)
LS3/L99: 8.0 qts........5W-30 Synthetic Oil(GM uses Mobil 1)
V6: 6.0 qts........5W-30 Synthetic Oil(GM uses Mobil 1)
^^Capacities are WITH replacement of oil filter
LS3/L99 Oil Filter: ACDelco PF48.........K&N HP-1017........Napa Gold 7060
V6: ACDelco PF2129............K&N HP-7003........Napa Gold 7090///////////
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49508
QUOTES FOR THE NAYSAYERS OF SYNTHETIC OIL.........
"As a past GM tech, I have pulled apart 100k mile engines that were "synthetic since birth" and 100k mile engines that were dino-based users... I believed in synthetic long before I started tearing down motors, but the proof I saw sealed the deal. "
Even the 2010 Camaro V6 uses dino. If dino oils were bad, no car maker would spec them for engines. No one would buy them.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/...gine+specifications&
All that wonderful engine technology,and then install low tech oil? No,thanks!
Oh,wait............looks like I was right after-all about using synthetic in the V6 Camaro...I knew Gm wouldn't make such a bad choice with motor oil of all things........
//////Engine- (GM recomends using synthetic engine oil)
LS3/L99: 8.0 qts........5W-30 Synthetic Oil(GM uses Mobil 1)
V6: 6.0 qts........5W-30 Synthetic Oil(GM uses Mobil 1)
^^Capacities are WITH replacement of oil filter
LS3/L99 Oil Filter: ACDelco PF48.........K&N HP-1017........Napa Gold 7060
V6: ACDelco PF2129............K&N HP-7003........Napa Gold 7090///////////
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49508
QUOTES FOR THE NAYSAYERS OF SYNTHETIC OIL.........
"As a past GM tech, I have pulled apart 100k mile engines that were "synthetic since birth" and 100k mile engines that were dino-based users... I believed in synthetic long before I started tearing down motors, but the proof I saw sealed the deal. "
And yet.......... no synlube is spec'd by any car maker.
GM 6094M is not the the synthetic oil spec so if your owners manual says that then is came with mineral oil, not synthetic.
GM4718M is General Motors' High Performance engine oil specification. Oils which meet GM4718M tend to be made from synthetic base stocks, so it is often referred to as a "synthetic" specification.
However, not all oils, synthetic or otherwise, are capable of meeting the stringent requirements of GM4718M.
GM 6094M is not the the synthetic oil spec so if your owners manual says that then is came with mineral oil, not synthetic.
GM4718M is General Motors' High Performance engine oil specification. Oils which meet GM4718M tend to be made from synthetic base stocks, so it is often referred to as a "synthetic" specification.
However, not all oils, synthetic or otherwise, are capable of meeting the stringent requirements of GM4718M.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
And yet.......... no synlube is spec'd by any car maker.
Show me a lawsuit/FTC,ETC,that says not to use it.
Also,show me any-mfg, stipulating.....not-to-use synthetic oil,but to ONLY use MINERAL BASED OILS. SHOW ME THAT ONE!!!!
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
And yet.......... no synlube is spec'd by any car maker.
Show me a lawsuit/FTC,ETC,that says not to use it.
Also,show me any-mfg, stipulating.....not-to-use synthetic oil,but to ONLY use MINERAL BASED OILS. SHOW ME THAT ONE!!!!
Never claimed there was a lawsuit that said one could not. What I said was/is the following:
No synlube is spec'd by any carmaker.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Never claimed there was a lawsuit that said one could not. What I said was/is the following:
No synlube is spec'd by any carmaker.
Nor is............ Motul,Amsoil,Royal Purple,Torco,lubro moly,Neo synthetic,Redline,etc,etc.
Yet,these are all very good lubricants....Much better than what the Avg motorist has installed in their engines....
AND YOUR POINT IS....TRAJAN....
OH LOOK,GM ENDORSES WALMART BRAND OIL,AND OTHER OILS BLENDED BY BIG-OIL COMPANIES.............POLITICS AGAIN!!!
http://www.gm.com/corporate/re...oved_engine_oils.pdf
TRAJAN..............KEEP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID........
quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
And yet.......... no synlube is spec'd by any car maker.
Show me a lawsuit/FTC,ETC,that says not to use it.
Also,show me any-mfg, stipulating.....not-to-use synthetic oil,but to ONLY use MINERAL BASED OILS. SHOW ME THAT ONE!!!!
And show us that car you claim exists down the street with the engine that was ruined by running Synlube.
We have been waiting months for your proof.
Well?
quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
And show us that car you claim exists down the street with the engine that was ruined by running Synlube.
We have been waiting months for your proof.
Well?
--------------------------------------------
THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING...........
And he calls us liars!
None of them here can get over the fact that you are successfully running Synlube in your vehicles. They love to mention that it costs $32. per bottle, cenveniently not mentioning that you return it and a new supply is sent to you prepaid and no charge in replacement every 50 000 miles! No other company in the World does that!
None of them here can get over the fact that you are successfully running Synlube in your vehicles. They love to mention that it costs $32. per bottle, cenveniently not mentioning that you return it and a new supply is sent to you prepaid and no charge in replacement every 50 000 miles! No other company in the World does that!
quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
And he calls us liars!
None of them here can get over the fact that you are successfully running Synlube in your vehicles. They love to mention that it costs $32. per bottle, cenveniently not mentioning that you return it and a new supply is sent to you prepaid and no charge in replacement every 50 000 miles! No other company in the World does that!
--------------------------------------------
Thanks,inHaliburton.......these guys are old school. One even talks about what his 'Uncle recommends'. My uncles ask me,not the other way around.
I bet these guys are from the same stock that thought 100k platinum spark plugs were impossible,let alone 200k iridium plugs. How about 100k tires and brakes......must have sounded crazy at one time.
What I can't figure out is that none of them get the fact they could just install-drain-refill, just like the stuff they use now(every 5-8k),and send in for 100% credit..thus almost free oil in the long-run,if they are afraid of 50k OCI's.
My prediction for the future is that the automakers will install lifetime oil,and lifetime(over-sized-integrated oil filters) because of all the environmental issues.....give it a few more years! They already are doing it with fuel filters,it's part of the pump module.
The fuel filter-pump module system was only really an issue in the beginning if someone went to fill up at a 'mom-n-pop' gas station with sediment laden fuel. Now days people go 150k with those things,no problem.
Kirk my uncle is someone I respect, who is extremely knowledgeable, and in tune with facts. He's not some shill on a message board, who talks to himself. There are many respectable people here who know the product is a hoax.
When you log 275,000 + miles let us know. I read your threads you haven't come close yet.
I do commend you on your new tactic to shill your product thought, nice approach. Did you get those business issues resolved and establish a business location yet? Or is the business location and mailing address still classified?
AD
When you log 275,000 + miles let us know. I read your threads you haven't come close yet.
I do commend you on your new tactic to shill your product thought, nice approach. Did you get those business issues resolved and establish a business location yet? Or is the business location and mailing address still classified?
AD
Lamont, I have the greatest respect for you and your ilk. Your knowledge is first-rate and few can question what you post. Similarly, I respect Capt. Kirk who is using a contraversial product. All he is doiing is giving us his personal experience with said product, and his opinions on sludge formation. I also agree with his vision of the future, which could have been yesteryear if it could have been more profitable for big oil than the usual 5- to 8-thousand kilometer oil change intervals we enjoy up here in the Great White North. When that era arrives, we can expect to pay much more for permanant oils to make up for the lack of OCIs on new vehicles. I can recall when cars were assembled without grease nipples and at the time I was positive that it would mean big problems for my car. Of course, I have yet to experience such a problem.
I will agree with that. If Kirk uses Syn-Lube and has good luck with it, hey, no problem. I prefer a good name brand oil that is API certified. I have a hard time buying products from a vehicle trunk (the old speaker scam comes to mind). I really would not have a hard time with S-L-4_life, if the website was not from 1996. Anyone with a little computer knowledge can make a decent site with DreamWeaver and cold fusion.
I prefer a quality oil that I can find on the shelf.
Dave
I prefer a quality oil that I can find on the shelf.
Dave
quote:
I prefer a quality oil that I can find on the shelf.
Dave
Same here, and from a company with a real address.
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:
I prefer a quality oil that I can find on the shelf.
Dave
Same here, and from a company with a real address.
AD
And verifiable, third party tests.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
[QUOTE]
And verifiable, third party tests.
If your certified oils are so good, why do you find it necessary to use that black ARX gunk.
BTW, I used that stuff on my first Focus at about 200 000 km. Had to dig the stuff out of the bottle because it had gone solid just like sludge. Either my engine was pristine, or that stuff did not do as advertised because I noticed no difference whatsoever, except my bank account was somewhat lighter...
I still have 2 bottles. Anyone want them
Again we agree, A-rX is someething that will never see the inside of anything I own.
AD
AD
Well said Lamont. You are right.
Engines today are outlasting the rest of the car. Cars today require such little maintenance. Oils today are better than ever.
I have the greatest respect for XOM's marketing. Much more professional than many of the other companies.
I'm at least glad to see Shell is using the Seq IIIG & IVA instead of the 4- ball wear test to make wear claims. LOL
Engines today are outlasting the rest of the car. Cars today require such little maintenance. Oils today are better than ever.
I have the greatest respect for XOM's marketing. Much more professional than many of the other companies.
I'm at least glad to see Shell is using the Seq IIIG & IVA instead of the 4- ball wear test to make wear claims. LOL
Well Trajan, as I have told you and the masses at least 5 times since the turn of the year why I will not used Synlube. I cannot use Synlube until warranty is up because the OCI is 5 000 kms.
At the rate I am going, it will not be very long. I drove the truck off the lot May 4th. I now have over 15 000 kms on the odometer. Frankly, I cannot wait for the day when I will install a add-on oil filter system and be able to choose an oil that will not have to be changed for 10s of thousands of kms. I am fed up with this oil change interval of 5- to 8-thousand kms. I am in and out of the jiffy lubes every 2 or 3 weeks.
At the rate I am going, it will not be very long. I drove the truck off the lot May 4th. I now have over 15 000 kms on the odometer. Frankly, I cannot wait for the day when I will install a add-on oil filter system and be able to choose an oil that will not have to be changed for 10s of thousands of kms. I am fed up with this oil change interval of 5- to 8-thousand kms. I am in and out of the jiffy lubes every 2 or 3 weeks.
Buster quoted:
Then why is there a billion dollar industry regarding new and used engine sales.........
http://search.yahoo.com/search...i=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701
http://search.yahoo.com/search...=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701
http://search.yahoo.com/search...=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701
quote:Engines today are outlasting the rest of the car. Cars today require such little maintenance. Oils today are better than ever.
Then why is there a billion dollar industry regarding new and used engine sales.........
http://search.yahoo.com/search...i=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701
http://search.yahoo.com/search...=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701
http://search.yahoo.com/search...=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701
How long does a car last........?
Consumer Reports ( www.consumerreports.org/) says the average life expectancy of a new vehicle these days is around 8 years or 150,000 miles.
That would be 50 iffy-lube visits for the average motorist! NOT ME! NO THANKS!
My wife loves the fact she never has to have her car serviced for an oil change..........I agree!
We just gas-n-go! Wash-n-wax! Everything is synthetic,even the brake fluid!
Consumer Reports ( www.consumerreports.org/) says the average life expectancy of a new vehicle these days is around 8 years or 150,000 miles.
That would be 50 iffy-lube visits for the average motorist! NOT ME! NO THANKS!
My wife loves the fact she never has to have her car serviced for an oil change..........I agree!
We just gas-n-go! Wash-n-wax! Everything is synthetic,even the brake fluid!
Read through all the synlube threads out on the web, and you get alot of claims.
But hard data, that you can actually verify, is rare. So rare that Indiana Jones would die of old age before he found it.
The promoters seem to tell us to keep an open mind..... ok is looking for evidence an example of a closed mind?? Now maybe those that just fell off the turnip truck will automatically believe all sales pitches... that seems to be the nature of most scams.
Anecdotes are no substitute for the lengthy and grueling testing that other oils are subjected to. And no one has presented a shred of evidence that SYNLUBE can pass these tests even once, let alone forever.
But hard data, that you can actually verify, is rare. So rare that Indiana Jones would die of old age before he found it.
The promoters seem to tell us to keep an open mind..... ok is looking for evidence an example of a closed mind?? Now maybe those that just fell off the turnip truck will automatically believe all sales pitches... that seems to be the nature of most scams.
Anecdotes are no substitute for the lengthy and grueling testing that other oils are subjected to. And no one has presented a shred of evidence that SYNLUBE can pass these tests even once, let alone forever.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Read through all the synlube threads out on the web, and you get alot of claims.
But hard data, that you can actually verify, is rare. So rare that Indiana Jones would die of old age before he found it.
The website is a travesty. Very poor example of marketing and information.
You don't claim that a police department uses the stuff, and not provide anything to back it up.
You don't claim to pass tests, and fail to provide anything to back it up.
Other than that, the threads here and at bitog speak volumes about this "oil".
"""MFG approved engine/trans/diff oil"""---Does that include -AR-X?
SYNLUBE HAS ALL THE PROOF I NEED! I DO BELIEVE THE PROOF YOU SPEAK OF, WAS PROVIDED TAJAN!
WOULD YOU LIKE AN INVITATION TRAJAN,PLUS DINNER AND A MOVIE-MAYBE.. A FEW COCKTAILS? SEVERAL FREE CASES OF THE STUFF? YOU'VE ALREADY ASKED FOR A FREE ENGINE--JUST TO TRY IT! WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?
Up here 50 trips by the time you get outta there is at least $50. for easy math. Thats for bottom end dino probably out of the gun, so who knows what the stuff is. Do you believe the hype from the kid who is trying to upsell you. Anyway, that works out to $2500, plus 15% HST = $2875. Round if off to $3000. Sure makes Synlube look like a bargoonie at $32 per bottle.
quote:Originally posted by Capt. Kirk:
"""MFG approved engine/trans/diff oil"""---Does that include -AR-X?
Capt., he will never answer why he is using ARX. You know the drill. Got to be a reason for sure cuz the stuff is way over priced for doing nothing. I know cuz I got sucked in with the all the hype over on BOBALOO 4 years ago. He is trying to clean up the engine from using that BMW goop they tell the non-thinkers to use. You have to use it during warranty even if it is no good, hence, his filty engine. That is the only reason to use ARX. He know darn well if he was using Synlube he would have saved a bundle and have a pristine engine just like yours!
quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton Thats for bottom end dino probably out of the gun, so who knows what the stuff is. Do you believe the hype from the kid who is trying to upsell you.
Considering what your advocating,do you realize what you have just said?
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by inHaliburton:
Well Trajan, as I have told you and the masses at least 5 times since the turn of the year why I will not used Synlube. I cannot use Synlube until warranty is up because the OCI is 5 000 kms.
At the rate I am going, it will not be very long. I drove the truck off the lot May 4th. I now have over 15 000 kms on the odometer. Frankly, I cannot wait for the day when I will install a add-on oil filter system and be able to choose an oil that will not have to be changed for 10s of thousands of kms. I am fed up with this oil change interval of 5- to 8-thousand kms. I am in and out of the jiffy lubes every 2 or 3 weeks.
Why worry? According to many people here the oil can't void the warranty, the car maker would have to prove the oil is at fault if the engine takes a dump and dies.
Since synlube is such a fantastic oil, and Kirk pours into his new vehicles with no worry, and runs extended drains in new cars, why should you worry? Go for it if you have that much faith in the product. A Shipmate pal of mine dropped the Factory Fill in his new F250 and went with RL 5W20, a non certified oil w/o any fear. Oh yea RL is a real company with an actual street location.
AD
That would mean that he actually has the courage of his convictions. Never seen such rabid defense of a product by one who doesn't/is too scared to use it.
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
[QUOTE]
Why worry? According to many people here the oil can't void the warranty, the car maker would have to prove the oil is at fault if the engine takes a dump and dies.
Since synlube is such a fantastic oil, and Kirk pours into his new vehicles with no worry, and runs extended drains in new cars, why should you worry? Go for it if you have that much faith in the product. A Shipmate pal of mine dropped the Factory Fill in his new F250 and went with RL 5W20, a non certified oil w/o any fear. Oh yea RL is a real company with an actual street location.
AD
AD, a touch of sarcasm. Easy there...
Well, bully for you friend. That's his truck and he's welcome to do what he wants, just like me. Nope, makes no sense to not change the oil for 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 thousand miles. The numbers get real big when transforming to metric. Believe me, the Ford crowd up here are not into very long OCIs. If something with wrong with the motor or driveline, they would laugh me out of the service department if I go in there looking for warranty and can't prove that the oil had been changed every 5 000 kms. Not worth the risk. I can wait. It's unlikely that I'll have a warranty issue with the engine. I've not has one in more than 20 years. Can't remember having an issue ever with the engine or tranny. Mostly recalls over the years.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
That would mean that he actually has the courage of his convictions. Never seen such rabid defense of a product by one who doesn't/is too scared to use it.
The big bucks you've been throwing away for all those additives you've been dumping in that dirty engine of yours to clean it up after using that crumby BMW-authorized oil you been using will easily pay for loading up the truck when and if decide to switch to Synlube.
That hocky stuff you are using is not necessary if you use a quality synthetic motor oil and quality oil filter and change according to your operating manual. That's simple, basic, logical maintenance.
That's okay AD, your an okay kinda guy. You guys, along with our men and women in the military are helping to keep us safe up here, too. I'm grateful to yours and our military people.
Thank you! I love this country and I am proud to serve!
AD
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Thank you! I love this country and I am proud to serve!
AD
AD, thank you for your service to our country.
