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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
All cars depreciate, it's called reality. How about those Yugos? What a joke they were.

AD


The explaination goes over his head. He should also realize that, in time, many cars do increase in value. Depends on many things though.

A pristine 1969 Camaro with the right options is worth more than a new 2011 model. Today, an old Isetta, well, http://autos.aol.com/used-list...-BMW/model1-Isetta/, which is far more than it costs when new.

He's only frothing at the mouth due to the very harsh light we've thrown on synlube. and the product came up short.

I would also explain to him that the 15K service on a BMW is much more than a simple oil change. But that would go over his head too.

We all know what a Yugo is worth. Even an Edsel is worth far more.

I also see that, and there is no surprise there, that once again, he can't back his "claims".

A free hint miro. Making fun of BMW doesn't faze me. Just displays the on going ignorance you convey. Good for a laugh or two.

Yugos sell for what, $100, if that now?
Last edited by trajan
BMW uses low tension piston ring sets on purpose. They provide less parasitic drag on the cylinder walls and superior cylinder lubrication at high RPM high load. Small and large high specific output engines from many brands use this strategy. Not a problem. They are designed this way for A reason. Its not the oils fault they chose this engineering compromise.
This is from "Imperial Palace" in Las Vegas

"And for the collector who has everything, a yellow 1990 Yugo convertible is on display and costs only $15,000."

Previous one sold for $22,500 on Auto Auction - yes these are PERFECT CARS and not $100 beat up and abused junkers.

But then Most BMW drivers do not beat up the car bodies as much as Yugo drivers did.

Still for $5,200 car to be worth 3 times its original price is rather good return on investment.

As for any "value" - anyone can advertise anything on E-bay for any amount that does not set the value, but auction prices do (If sold).

The LOWEST priced YUGO sold at auction was for $7,500 in 2007 the highest one $22,500 a cabrio of which only 60 were made.

And guess what it was one of the 25 cabrios equipped with SynLube right out of the factory in Serbia.

And while BMW depreciates at the same rate as Hyundai, at least Hyundai warranty is twice as long and it does not burn any oil.

Even YUGOS with SynLube went at minimum 20,000 miles before they needed any oil, and for that matter OKA which I also have used only 2 quarts in 50,000 miles and that engine being 2 cylinder revs up to 9,000 RPM and is @ 4,200 to 4,500 at highway speeds about double that of any BMW at cruise speed.

Yet the 1970 design Piston Rings do just fine, none have ever broken and no engines have ever seized. The EFI OKA puts out 45 HP out of 750 cc @ 6,500 RPM, so that actually qualifies as HIGH OUTPUT.

So theoretical experimentations on high budget customer vehicles is not really the "reliable or dependable" way to build a vehicle or engine.

But as long as someone is willing to pay $20 a day just for depreciation, there always will be engineers that need to justify their existence and employment and will make their reinventions of a wheel look like the latest and the greatest.

The fact that it is a design or in service falure is none of their concern, after all they never realy drive what they have desgned, or own vehicles made by the company they work for manufacturers.

Years ago I had a pleasure at SAE meetting to sit next to a BMW engineer from Germany and after some brief conversation I found:

1.) He did not own a car - he rented what ever was available where ever he was on business, mostly flying about USA.
2.) His wife had Citroen
3.) His son an Opel.

Really strange I thought

PS: But then I found out recently that MR. Lutz did not own or drive a GM vehicle either .... and then he promotes VOLT, ah well

At least I drive OKA, YUGO, MORETTI, and BERTONE and shortly will also have a BREMACH - all SynLube Lube-4-Life equipped of course.

But really the ISSUE WAS:
Why AMSOIL Clogs filters on so many vehicles ?

Can anyone answer that one ???
KBB values based on real transaction prices in 2010

BLUE BOOK® PRIVATE PARTY VALUE
Close
Private Party Value
Kelley Blue Book Private Party Value is the amount a buyer can expect to pay when buying a used car from a private party. The Private Party Value assumes the vehicle is sold "As Is" and carries no warranty (other than any remaining factory warranty). The final sale price may vary depending on the vehicle's actual condition and local market conditions. This value may also be used to derive Fair Market Value for insurance and vehicle donation purposes.

1990 YUGO GV Value

Excellent $2,300
Good $2,150
Fair $1,650

Not bad for a car that was $5,225 MSRP and sold for about $4,900 in 1990 to be worth that much 20 years later.

This is data from the came company that depreciates BMW 62% in the first year of ownership, while MINI is worth 62% of its price 36 months later.

But still YUGO tops the list it is worth 41% of its original price (if not beat up) 20 years LATTER !!!

Compare that to most cars that are worth that much (less) just in 12 to 18 months !!!
Compare that with BMW and that is one of the "top" models: 2010 BMW M6
MSRP $$106,225.00
New 100% $102,350.00
2 45% $46,057.50
3 37% $37,869.50
4 30% $30,705.00
5 24% $24,564.00

It is 45% of its value after just 12 months, dont you wish you have YUGO ? It's value drops almost $4,000 even before it is driven off the dealer's lot - how is that for a "great" car ?
MY point of all of this is, in case you have missed it:

Great vehicles no matter the make or model retain its value over time.

Poor vehicles lose their value very very quickly.


As simple as that.

If BMW retained it's value Trajan would not be able to afford even the used one.


NO ONE Can argue with that, the data is there and available to every one, but if you elect to stick your head into a sand dune that of course is you privilege.

Similarily data is availalble about the problems conventional lubircants cause, like sludge, gel, varnish, excessive oil consumption, and so on.

I accept the fact that BMW may have "special" low tension rings, but that does not explain why cars converted to a better lubricant at low mileage DO NOT consume much oil, while those serviced at BMW for FREE do develop such "problem" when the warranty is over or in just 50,000 miles.

NO one seems to report that their car lost 2 quarts or more before the FIRST service was due, but by 45,000 iles the same vehicle "burns" oil - WHY ???

May be the 15,000 + service intervals are just TOO LONG for the stuff the BMW dealers use in these vehicles.

Clearly when the engine leaves the BMW assembly it is as perfect as can be, it is only latter that it develops the "oil consumption", so something DOES NOT last.

And if the oil you use makes a difference then of course it is lubrication related issue.

Well actually more like Tribological Issue as friction, wear and lubrication all play a role in that scenario.

And do not think of this as SynLube promotion, simple as I have stated before we have BMW customers that did not use the FREE BMW service and NONE have oil consumption issues, while those that waited for the FREE and WARRANTY to expire FIRST before they switched all are asking why is my car burning so much oil.

It is not one in many vehclies issue; it is statistically proveable trend with identical experience shared my many.

Just search the web -------
I find it quite funny reading this. Miro are you trying to say a Yugo is a better car than a BMW? Then trying to make the case for your oil?

Bad move, pick another car, YUGO was/is a POS. You're not selling your oil by pointing out that Yugo is a good car. People vote with their check books, and YGUO failed horribly in the USA. Anyone I ever heard talk about them called them throw away cars, and garbage. I think most here will agree?

Lets take a vote: Pick a car to own, anything from BMW, or anything from YUGO?

Then or now?

I'll sound off with BMW.

AD
Just to further the fact that miro doesn't know what he's talking about

Oil Service 15,000 miles

Replace oil and filter
Reset service indicator
Check front brake pads
Check rear brake pads
Check parking brake operation
Replace cabin air filter

Inspection 1 30,000 miles or 24 months (whatever is first)

The above, plus:

Check manual transmission fluid level. (If equipped)
Check all underhood componets/hoses for fluid leaks.
Check and drivebelts and replace if necessary.
Check steering and suspension components.
Check exhaust systems and mountings.
Check condition and operation of seatbelts.
Check headlight beam alignment.
Check operation of headlight/windshield washer system.
Check engine management system.
Road test.

45,000 miles/36 months

Repeat oil service.

60,000/48 months: Inspection II

repeat Ins 1
Replace spark plugs
Check drive shaft boots.

There's more to it,Like air filter changes, but it's more than the oil change he claims.

What he also doesn't mention is that the dealer arranges a loaner car for you. (I've had two 3 series sedans and a new Toyota Camry. The guy who owns the BMW dealership also owns the Toyota and Lexus dealership next to each other.)

You can of course wait at the dealer, but they give you a free loaner, so why bother.
quote:
Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
BMW uses low tension piston ring sets on purpose. They provide less parasitic drag on the cylinder walls and superior cylinder lubrication at high RPM high load. Small and large high specific output engines from many brands use this strategy. Not a problem. They are designed this way for A reason. Its not the oils fault they chose this engineering compromise.


Very well said. Also, I didn't know that. Thanks!!
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I find it quite funny reading this. Miro are you trying to say a Yugo is a better car than a BMW? Then trying to make the case for your oil?

Bad move, pick another car, YUGO was/is a POS. You're not selling your oil by pointing out that Yugo is a good car. People vote with their check books, and YGUO failed horribly in the USA. Anyone I ever heard talk about them called them throw away cars, and garbage. I think most here will agree?

Lets take a vote: Pick a car to own, anything from BMW, or anything from YUGO?

Then or now?

I'll sound off with BMW.

AD


BMW, Porsche, Trans AM/Camaro SS. 2011 Mustang 5.0. Even my mother's 2001 Alero. A nice car really, even though it has a 4cyl. Corvette.

Yugos have the best front end protection around..... it's called a tow truck.

http://freeweb.deltha.hu/zastava.in.hu/jokes.htm

Consumer Reports, in its review of the Yugo, called the car "hard to recommend at any price" and concluded that "you'd be better off buying a good used car than a new Yugo."

The Yugo stands out as the only car from a non-U.S. manufacturer to make the Hagerty Insurance "Most Questionable Cars" list.

"I threatened a couple of times to buy one and leave it in somebody's driveway," said McKeel Hagerty, president of Hagerty Insurance.
quote:
Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
BMW uses low tension piston ring sets on purpose. They provide less parasitic drag on the cylinder walls and superior cylinder lubrication at high RPM high load. Small and large high specific output engines from many brands use this strategy. Not a problem. They are designed this way for A reason. Its not the oils fault they chose this engineering compromise.


------------------------------------------

This low ring pressure is not an engineering compromise.......it's an engineering achievement!


All,if not most vehicles are now able to use low ring tension because of modern day engineering techniques that allow for very,very precise bore/piston tolerances that could not be achieved years ago.

Years ago,especially during a rebuild,a very tight install/ring pressure was needed so that the engine could "run in-break in"....and if done correctly, yielded a well broken-in engine,that used little oil,and now had a very good 'fit'. Anyone who raced with a brand new car back in the day would surely scuff/score the cylinder walls/piston-rings/skirts,etc. before a thorough run-in was achieved......causing an oil burner!


Today,the engines are leaving the factory with little break in needed,because the tolerances,and quality control are that much better............especially in a BMW. Yes,this does allow for less friction/drag, better throttle response,less heat,and better fuel economy!


Also realize that less engine break-in also equates to less metallic debris in the engine during this critical period,and less overall initial wear.


It would make absolutely no sense to fuss over all the emission/EPA issues/hurdles, only to build a 'sloppy' engine that burns oil,damages the cat,and pollutes the environment....that would be absurd. Also,compression loses must be kept to a minimum,otherwise any and all fuel economy improvements would be lost due to the loss of power from excess blow-by!


If you installed the best motor oil in these German cars,or any car when they are brand new,or close to new.....they will not 'burn',or use oil.

The best motor oil if you're wondering, is not on store shelves anywhere in America. It has to be special ordered! Or, if you live in Europe,you would be able to find really good motor oil unlike on American store shelves!

Also realize that really smart European motorists don't need to fuss over VOA/UOA like some on these boards are doing and spending a small fortune to analyze.. 'garbage motor oil' That never has made any sense to me. You are throwing good money after-bad on that one!


Engine design link.......(six years old)......tolerances are even better now since it was written

http://webcache.googleusercont...=us&client=firefox-a

A newer link for the motor heads.....

http://www.underhoodservice.co...9778/Advances_i.aspx
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Since the tolerances are so much better and engines tighter, I'd stay clear of that 50 grade oil you're pushing and follow mfg specs, using an approved oil.


No point mail ordering anything, pick a good synthetic oil from a reputable company and have at it.


AD


Stay clear of 50 Grade.....Why?

The European engineers are all for heavier oil. That includes 10w-60.

http://www.voltronic-germany.com/Motor-Oil-10W60.htm


You say pick a good oil(in stores)................where?

Trajan did what you say and now look at his engine. Burns oil,needs to be flushed all the time,etc. So,hows that MFG 'approved' oil working out?...............

http://www.motorator.com/uploa...Line_Oil_10W60_3.jpg
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Since the tolerances are so much better and engines tighter, I'd stay clear of that 50 grade oil you're pushing and follow mfg specs, using an approved oil.


No point mail ordering anything, pick a good synthetic oil from a reputable company and have at it.


AD


One of his own links states that one way to combat sludge is to use the correct viscosity. Using synlube in a Mustang isn't it.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Since the tolerances are so much better and engines tighter, I'd stay clear of that 50 grade oil you're pushing and follow mfg specs, using an approved oil.


No point mail ordering anything, pick a good synthetic oil from a reputable company and have at it.


AD


One of his own links states that one way to combat sludge is to use the correct viscosity. Using synlube in a Mustang isn't it.



How would you know about mustangs and synlube.

You own neither.

I own a mustang with synlube in the engine. It uses ZERO OIL,HAS ZERO SLUDGE. The oil filter cut open with 10,500 was spotless. The engine is spotless.

This is my car, and that makes me an expert for this particular car and what is going on with the engine and so forth.

I also cut open the oil filter on the VW 1.8t filter and it too was-spotless at 10k on just the filter! I could have gone to 20k on that filter,easily!

Remember,the 1.8t is a known sludge monster-and I have ZERO SLUDGE,ZERO ISSUES. No check engine light,spotless engine innards,and always passes inspection/emissions. The biggest highlight with this car is the car wash.

Unlike Your German car that burns oil,and needs engine flushes.............my German car doesn't have those issues.


This is what happens when you go to the dealer for an oil change...

http://www.motorator.com/uploa...Line_Oil_10W60_3.jpg


YOU ALLOW THEM TO DESTROY YOUR ENGINE WITH---'APPROVED OIL' LOL
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Since the tolerances are so much better and engines tighter, I'd stay clear of that 50 grade oil you're pushing and follow mfg specs, using an approved oil.


No point mail ordering anything, pick a good synthetic oil from a reputable company and have at it.


AD


Stay clear of 50 Grade.....Why?

The European engineers are all for heavier oil. That includes 10w-60.

http://www.voltronic-germany.com/Motor-Oil-10W60.htm


You say pick a good oil(in stores)................where?

Trajan did what you say and now look at his engine. Burns oil,needs to be flushed all the time,etc. So,hows that MFG 'approved' oil working out?...............

http://www.motorator.com/uploa...Line_Oil_10W60_3.jpg


Good stores, Walmart, AAP, Auto Zone, back home, East Coast, Auto Barn. That's where I get my oil, not from out of a trunk or a car in an alley way. Or give a CC# to someone w/o a business address and pray I get my oil.

A qt of oil in 6000 miles is no oil burner, ask any good mechanic.

Keeping an engine internals clean is something a lot of car buffs do. My father and uncle call it preventative maint. It spilled over to me. A pint of MMO for a 1000 miles or so keeps my engine spotless. My uncle has that Ford PU with now over 275,000 miles running strong and clean, dino oil, and MMO from time to time. No problems to report. I bet he gets 300K+ out of it, and it hauls a 25' boat and trailer weighing over 6500 lbs. No sweat.


I can't comment for Trajan as to why he's cleaning an engine, if I had to guess he is a car buff and is looking at PM like many here.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Since the tolerances are so much better and engines tighter, I'd stay clear of that 50 grade oil you're pushing and follow mfg specs, using an approved oil.


No point mail ordering anything, pick a good synthetic oil from a reputable company and have at it.


AD


Stay clear of 50 Grade.....Why?

The European engineers are all for heavier oil. That includes 10w-60.

http://www.voltronic-germany.com/Motor-Oil-10W60.htm


You say pick a good oil(in stores)................where?

Trajan did what you say and now look at his engine. Burns oil,needs to be flushed all the time,etc. So,hows that MFG 'approved' oil working out?...............

http://www.motorator.com/uploa...Line_Oil_10W60_3.jpg


Good stores, Walmart, AAP, Auto Zone, back home, East Coast, Auto Barn. That's where I get my oil, not from out of a trunk or a car in an alley way. Or give a CC# to someone w/o a business address and pray I get my oil.

A qt of oil in 6000 miles is no oil burner, ask any good mechanic.

Keeping an engine internals clean is something a lot of car buffs do. My father and uncle call it preventative maint. It spilled over to me. A pint of MMO for a 1000 miles or so keeps my engine spotless. My uncle has that Ford PU with now over 275,000 miles running strong and clean, dino oil, and MMO from time to time. No problems to report. I bet he gets 300K+ out of it, and it hauls a 25' boat and trailer weighing over 6500 lbs. No sweat.


I can't comment for Trajan as to why he's cleaning an engine, if I had to guess he is a car buff and is looking at PM like many here.

AD


If you're into all that old school stuff.........go-for-it! I used to do all that old school stuff too,so I know it works,but it's also work/expense to do it. It also creates a lot of chemical waste you have to deal with,so why bother when you don't need to.
I can't recall ever saying that I "flush" my engine once, to say nothing of "all the time."

As for oil consumption, well, not only is it at acceptable levels, but it was explained above why. But I guess that's too technical for kirk.

Now, I am doing an arx cycle. Not because I need it, because I don't. Or even think I need it.

The reason is very technical. Very difficult to understand for some. well, who am I kidding. Difficult for kirk/inhal. But I'll see if I can dumb it down. Nah..... no need to

Ready, here is my very technical reason for doing an arx clean/rinse.

I................feel...................like it.

Hopefully, not too technical.

And AD is right, A car buff who does PM.

Maybe kirk should read this again?

*******Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
BMW uses low tension piston ring sets on purpose. They provide less parasitic drag on the cylinder walls and superior cylinder lubrication at high RPM high load. Small and large high specific output engines from many brands use this strategy. Not a problem. They are designed this way for A reason. Its not the oils fault they chose this engineering compromise. ********
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
I can't recall ever saying that I "flush" my engine once, to say nothing of "all the time."

As for oil consumption, well, not only is it at acceptable levels, but it was explained above why. But I guess that's too technical for kirk.

Now, I am doing an arx cycle. Not because I need it, because I don't. Or even think I need it.

The reason is very technical. very difficult to understand for some. well, who am I kidding. Difficult for kirk. But I'll see if I can dumb it down. Nah..... no need to

Ready, here is my very technical reason for doing an arx clean/rinse.

I................feel...................like it.

Hopefully, not too technical



---------------------------------------

Here is something not too technical for you trajan, why I use Synlube...........

I.....................feel...........LIKE..........it!!!


Oh,by the way- regarding synlube

IT......................ALSO............WORKS.........REALLY..........REALLY.........WELL!



ONE MORE THING-TRAJAN....

YOUR QUOTE:
Ready, here is my very technical reason for doing an arx clean/rinse.

I................feel...................like it. (INCORRECT)......... YOU NEED TO CLEAN/RINSE WITH THAT 'APPROVED OIL' YOU USE) -BECAUSE IT CREATES VARNISH IN THE ENGINE-AND YOU KNOW IT!!

Hopefully, not too technical
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

Maybe kirk should read this again?

*******Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
BMW uses low tension piston ring sets on purpose. They provide less parasitic drag on the cylinder walls and superior cylinder lubrication at high RPM high load. Small and large high specific output engines from many brands use this strategy. Not a problem. They are designed this way for A reason. Its not the oils fault they chose this engineering compromise. ********




TRAJAN........I've got more technical knowledge/know-how,than you'll ever have.

I already explained the ring pressure issue. Here it is again.


This low ring pressure is not an engineering compromise.......it's an engineering achievement!


All,if not most vehicles are now able to use low ring tension because of modern day engineering techniques that allow for very,very precise bore/piston tolerances that could not be achieved years ago.

Years ago,especially during a rebuild,a very tight install/ring pressure was needed so that the engine could "run in-break in"....and if done correctly, yielded a well broken-in engine,that used little oil,and now had a very good 'fit'. Anyone who raced with a brand new car back in the day would surely scuff/score the cylinder walls/piston-rings/skirts,etc. before a thorough run-in was achieved......causing an oil burner!


Today,the engines are leaving the factory with little break in needed,because the tolerances,and quality control are that much better............especially in a BMW. Yes,this does allow for less friction/drag, better throttle response,less heat,and better fuel economy! BUT NOT OIL BURNING!


Also realize that less engine break-in also equates to less metallic debris in the engine during this critical period,and less overall initial wear.


It would make absolutely no sense to fuss over all the emission/EPA issues/hurdles, only to build a 'sloppy' engine that burns oil,damages the cat,and pollutes the environment....that would be absurd. Also,compression loses must be kept to a minimum,otherwise any and all fuel economy improvements would be lost due to the loss of power from excess blow-by!


If you installed the best motor oil in these German cars,or any car when they are brand new,or close to new.....they will not 'burn',or use oil.

The best motor oil if you're wondering, is not on store shelves anywhere in America. It has to be special ordered! Or, if you live in Europe,you would be able to find really good motor oil unlike on American store shelves!

Also realize that really smart European motorists don't need to fuss over VOA/UOA like some on these boards are doing and spending a small fortune to analyze.. 'garbage motor oil' That never has made any sense to me. You are throwing good money after-bad on that one!


Engine design link.......(six years old)......tolerances are even better now since it was written

http://webcache.googleusercont...=us&client=firefox-a

A newer link for the motor heads.....

http://www.underhoodservice.co...9778/Advances_i.aspx


WELL TRAJAN..............SHOW US YOUR TECHNICAL EVALUATION/EXPERTISE! Big Grin OH,THAT'S RIGHT,YOU HAVE NONE!
Last edited by captainkirk
Miro quoted:
quote:
But really the ISSUE WAS:
Why AMSOIL Clogs filters on so many vehicles ?

Can anyone answer that one ???



I would say the first mistake on Amsoil's part was and/is recommending up to 25k on every one of their filters,especially the Mico-sized foreign car application. Those were clogging up before 10,000 miles in some of the lexus/Toyota models.

The way-undersized filters would have worked if the engines were spotless when the Amsoil was installed.......and only then if Amsoil was formulated not to oxidize/crystallize and then subsequently clog the tiny filters.

There must be an issue with the oil breaking down in these high tech/ultra-low emission engines and not capable of nowhere near a 25k OCI-clogging up the 'tiny' filters into major bypass mode...unless the car 'lives' on the freeway all day long,and runs quality fuel as well,then maybe up-to-25k.

A larger oil filter is always good for many reasons,if nothing more than insurance,but the oil quality is paramount,and the oil filter should compliment the oil,not the other way around.
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Miro Kefurt:
My Drop to the bucket:

Just like oil will surface to the surface no matter what BP may claim about it, lies and deceptions will eventually surface too.



So synlube like..........


So Trajan like. Where's that engine belonging to you neighbour that sludged-up using Synlube, eh Big Mouth?

Well?
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

Must be rough, knowing that I'll use quality, proven oil, over that garbage you peddle.


Temper, temper. Another dumber than dirt statement from the great orator, TRAJAN. You use quality, proven oil, do you? Why do you use ARX to clean up that engine of yours if your oil is so wonderful? You should listen more to Capt. Kirk who sucessfully uses a product that would have prevented your engine from becoming an oil burner and from becoming filthy with sludge and varnish! Wake up, man and smell the coffee.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
You're right. It isn't a problem. It's far from a problem. The dealer doesn't see it as a problem. My mechanic doesn't. People who own and drive these cars, unlike kirk, don't see it as a problem.

No synlube, no worries.


Dirty engine. Burns oil. Using ARX to fix. Blame the original owner. No problem. BMW says so. No problem. Mechanic say so. No problem. What me worry? Alfred E. Newman = Trajan.
6000 miles and a qt of oil is needed, come on guys lets get real. That is not oil burning.

With all the positive press 3 people are giving Synlube, only two of them are using it. One of them owns the company. The other a shill. How come no one else is stepping up to the plate? Probably because most people reading about it realize what it's all about.

AD
fowvay quote...

I used this stuff after reading an article in European Car. At least I think it was European Car magazine back then.... anyhoo...

I put it in my 1986 Jetta Diesel at 121,000 miles and installed a canton mecca remote oil filter at the same time. I changed the filter every 25,000 miles and added a quart of oil at that time.

I sold the car at 486,000 miles after it was rear ended by a Chevy Chevette doing 45mph. It still ran great and delivered a solid 42mpg in the city (redline to redline shifts) and averaged a healthy 52mpg at 70mph.

I did change the oil out every 50,000 miles as per there directions back in the early 90's and allthough extremly black it still was performing very well and there was no sludge build up anywhere.

I thought the company had fallen off the face of the Earth or had gone out of business. That is untill today when I came across a link to it from another website.

I will try it out first in our Ford Focus since it sees the most use. I will report back in 2 years when it had accumalted 50,000 miles and let you know the averages.
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-------------------------------------------

jonny-b-quote

Hi, Gary Allan. I will also take a VOA and send it in together with the UOA. I have been driving 10000 km(6200 miles) now, since I filled my old Nissan with Synlube. All I can say now, is that this seem to be the best oil I have ever used. However, this is based on sounds from the engine being gradually reduced, how the engine idles and how I think it performs,as well as a slight reduction in fuelconsumption. I will do a lot of driving this summer, so I was planning to send in a UOA when I reach some 20K miles.
I also have ordered their gear oil, and already have their oil in the diff. I also ordered their microglass filter, and I will replace the OEM Nissan oil filter with this. I don't think you can go wrong, by using their products, but if anyone can give some info proving otherwise, I would be glad to know. In the meantime, I keep on driving to test it.


And Many,many others like myself and so forth have been using synlube for many years now.........
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
6000 miles and a qt of oil is needed, come on guys lets get real. That is not oil burning.

With all the positive press 3 people are giving Synlube, only two of them are using it. One of them owns the company. The other a shill. How come no one else is stepping up to the plate? Probably because most people reading about it realize what it's all about.

AD


Why doesn't inhaliburton step up to the plate???????

Yep. it's far from oil burning. Especially when you consider what BKL pointed out. Which I'll post again since they *still* don't get it:

*****Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
BMW uses low tension piston ring sets on purpose. They provide less parasitic drag on the cylinder walls and superior cylinder lubrication at high RPM high load. Small and large high specific output engines from many brands use this strategy. Not a problem. They are designed this way for A reason. Its not the oils fault they chose this engineering compromise.*****

The problem these three have is that no one, either here or at bitog, is jumping on their bandwagon.

Still a mystery why one of the fans fears to use it. Or why the other two don't go after him.

Only someone who knows nothing about BMWs, or cars in general, would find 1qt/6k a problem.
A few years ago: http://www.pistonslap.com/tsb/010601011A.pdf

The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946
liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi). This rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under
warranty, maintained in accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule, with less
than 58,000 km (36,000 mi), or 80,450 km (50,000 mi) for Cadillac, driven at legal
speeds in an unloaded (for trucks) condition.

Oops, they've been skunked again.

They probably feel the same way about Mazda's rotary engine as well.

A sure fire sign you're burning oil is the cloud of blue smoke. Don't have that.

I should also point out that none of my three fans stuck their beaks in this thread until *after* I chose the oil. Very telling.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

Maybe kirk should read this again?

*******Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
BMW uses low tension piston ring sets on purpose. They provide less parasitic drag on the cylinder walls and superior cylinder lubrication at high RPM high load. Small and large high specific output engines from many brands use this strategy. Not a problem. They are designed this way for A reason. Its not the oils fault they chose this engineering compromise. ********



I already explained the ring pressure issue. Here it is again.


This low ring pressure is not an engineering compromise.......it's an engineering achievement!

All engineering is a combination of compromises. It is possible to go to far with any of them. The best choices are a matter of constant debate and tend to become self evident over time through successes ,failures or plain mediocrity. Some companies are better at making these decisions than others. The same goes for oil companies and car companies.
quote:
Originally
jonny-b-quote

Hi, Gary Allan. I will also take a VOA and send it in together with the UOA. I have been driving 10000 km(6200 miles) now, since I filled my old Nissan with Synlube. All I can say now, is that this seem to be the best oil I have ever used. However, this is based on sounds from the engine being gradually reduced, how the engine idles and how I think it performs,as well as a slight reduction in fuelconsumption. I will do a lot of driving this summer, so I was planning to send in a UOA when I reach some 20K miles.
I also have ordered their gear oil, and already have their oil in the diff. I also ordered their microglass filter, and I will replace the OEM Nissan oil filter with this. I don't think you can go wrong, by using their products, but if anyone can give some info proving otherwise, I would be glad to know. In the meantime, I keep on driving to test it.


And Many,many others like myself and so forth have been using synlube for many years now.........


jonny-b has been on other sites pushing different products from time to time, a ceramic additive that could repair the internals of worn out engines comes to mind. He pushed that hot and heavy too. I take anything he says with a grain of salt, as did many others.

Then there is the recent Yogo debate, and how they held value. Some cars become collectable and desireable because they represent GARBAGE, engineering nightmares, horror stories, or stupidity. The Yugo meets all of the above and probably more.

AD
Last edited by adfd1
Ah yes, ole jonny b. The guy who insulted anyone who dared question synlube. Or any other miracle in a can..... never did that VOA/UOA.

Just like inhaliburton. a guy who not only still defends a swill known as synlube, but is too scared, lacks the courage of his convictions, isn't man enough, to actually use it.

What can you expect from a child who, being that he lacks any ability, can only do things like make up lies. Find that thread you accussed me of inflicting ruin on yet? Oh, that's right, you made it up.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
All engineering is a combination of compromises.



The only thing I see that's compromised is the store bought oil some are using,and then go on to shout....hey, it's MFG APPROVED so it must be the best stuff I can buy 'locally' for my engine!

Believe me,these foreign car MFG'S need to sell cars worldwide,so they have to 'pick' whatever they hope to be the best oil in that particular country(u.s.a)......otherwise they wouldn't sell any cars in that country. What would you do,what do you expect them to do.

If BMW had their druthers,they would spec what oil the engine actually needs the most......however, the oil is typically just not available,so they just- 'pick their poison' so to speak for what the typical American will install in that model of car,and hope for the best.... So far,not so good!

The domestic automakers are basically doing the same thing........being forced to pick the best motor oil when there are not really very good choices....hence the reason for the new dexos standard(dictated by GM,not big-oil) just around the corner. Gm is tired of low quality motor oil choices,ruining their engines.

Many of these BMW-M cars burn almost NO oil,and many burn oil like crazy. Some are getting rebuilds way before 150k........using so-called MFG Approved oil.

I blame the low quality oils being used,for the most part. If the engines are 'compromised' as you say.........then all the more reason to use the best possible lubricant..ignoring the 'useless'-MFG APPROVED GARBAGE oil that is apparently very good at killing these engines early.

I am willing to wager that European cars,using European motor oils-in Europe,don't burn oil,and wear out like their American counterparts. The American oils being installed at the dealerships are ruining those engines early on...........including the domestic cars as well.


AND THEN.........THERE IS ALWAYS PLAN-B

http://search.yahoo.com/search...=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701


OR..........PLAN-C



http://www.newcar.com/14/yugo/index.html

The incarnated new YUGO...Comming soon to a dealer near you!

http://blogs.consumerreports.o...wheel-fiat-500-.html
Last edited by captainkirk
I think we agree on some points. GM did not go with their own specification because they were happy with API. Being blown off for a period of years makes the general REAL unhappy. What their specific issues are I dont know but certainly it was something. Europe and japan have gone their own way and are not immune to problems. I think the elephant in the room that is causing issues is government regulations. Pressure to reduce waste streams to a minimum got the Europeans to specify long OCI and some got bit. Regulations on VOC emissions here have made crankcase ventilation systems very effective moisture traps. CAFE standards are pushing manufacturers to spec lighter oils than they would otherwise use,even if only slightly. Non of these are deal breakers when all you have to do is change your oil to fix it. Forcing 100000 mile catalytic converter life at the expense of safe reliable engine wear protection and sabotaging older engines with mechanical valve trains is a piss poor use of government power,however well intentioned. The engineering responses to regulation are as varied as can be,some are successful,some not. BMW is not immune to this. The crank case ventilation system on some models can fail in very cold weather and suck all the crankcase oil into the intake manifold and cause engine destruction. Not the oils fault unless you count water trapped in it. When the water freezes the valve fails. These may be the failures your referring to.
quote:
Originally posted by BLK98MK8LSC:

The crank case ventilation system on some models can fail in very cold weather and suck all the crankcase oil into the intake manifold and cause engine destruction. Not the oils fault unless you count water trapped in it. When the water freezes the valve fails. These may be the failures your referring to.


That is a problem in the colder climates. IIRC there is a cold climate version of it. It's insulated IIRC.

FWIW, "normal" PCV valves can have the same thing happen. For instance: http://www.subaruforester.org/...-ltd-heads-up-47434/

Not a problem I have though.
quote:
Originally posted by BLK98MK8LSC:
I wasnt picking on BMW but on the VOC emission regs that dictate sealed up tight crank cases. They trap moisture to the point of build up. Does depend on conditions.


I know, I just didn't see the need to quote the whole post Smile

You may find this of interest:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/foru...wthread.php?t=422965

"To cool the piston crowns directly, nearly all BMW engines are equipped with oil spray jets that moisten the piston crowns with engine oil."

I wasn't aware they had that feature.
Low tension rings for superior cylinder lube. Check.

Oil spray jets for the piston crowns. Check.

Very acceptable oil consumption rates as determined by the people who know what they're doing. Check.

Nobody buying what miro/kirk/inhal sell. Check.

Miro/kirk/inhal displaying their wealth of ignorance on such things. Check and mate.
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