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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

It's near time for the 8k mile oil change for the car in my sig.

There are three things I look for in an oil.

1: API rating. It has to have the starburst on the container. If it does not have it, then I don't look any further.

2: ACEA rating. It has to have a HTHS of at least 3.5. So that means it has to be A3 or better. I've read that you can go to a higher A rating, but not lower. So if it's A1, it's rejected.

3: MFG approval. A great deal of money is spent on R&D to make sure the oil can handle the engine. Auto makers work closely with oil companies on that point. BMW works with Castrol, as does Audi/VW though other companies will pony up the money to test their oils. It's the same with Porsche/Mobil, Ferrari/Shell, etc.

Other companies also work with the auto makers. BMW factory fills with Castrol, but Valvoline/Mobil/Pennzoil also have BMW approvals for some of their oil. Porsche has over 100 approved oils, but factory fill with Mobil 1.

My point? Engine makers know more about their engines than anyone. So I'm a big proponent of using mfg approved oil in my engine.

So it is LL-01 for me. It is a point that I can bend on a little though, as my 6yr/100k mile warranty is up.


The next post will be a list of oils I'm looking at, and finally, the one that is my choice.

Feel free to advise, but within the paramaters. (LL-01 isn't an absolute.)
Last edited {1}
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In no paticular order:
Motul 8100 X-MAX 5W-30
http://matrixsyntheticoils.com...0%20x-max%205w30.pdf

Castrol Syntec SAE 0W-30 European Formula (Meets all the specs.)

Castrol Syntec SAE 5W-40 European Formula (Ll-98 instead of 01 but meets the other two.)

Liqui Moly Leichtlauf Special LL 5W-30 (meets all)

Mobil 1 0w-40 (Meets all) The flagship as far as I'm concerned. Can't argue with Aston Martin, Porsche, Mercedes AMG either. My favorite oil.

Pento High Performance 5W-30 (Meets all)

Pennzoil Ultra 5W-40 Euro (I understand Pennzoil is going to set a link on their site so we can buy it. It's hard to find.)

Q HorsePower SAE 5W-40 (as of 2007 LL-01 approval was pending)

I know one who ran uses Motul in his M3 and is happy with it. It is also expensive compared to the M1.
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
Note the timing gears from the 2.5 Boxster M96 engine. 0-40 M1 with excessive oil change interval. It was specified by the factory. Government regs have a great deal to do with current oil specs. Any of the products you have listed for consideration will be OK BUT chose an interval that suits the one you choose. Error on the side of caution. Any of the synthetic products listed are overkill,especially if the change interval is shortened. I treat my toys better than I have to,so no lecture here about spending more than you have to. DO WHAT YOU LIKE. You must have some opinion about what you do and dont want.
Castrol Syntec SAE 0W-30 European Formula (Meets all the specs.) That would be my choice, seems to be a favorite oil for many drivers, with tons of data backing it up. Save the thicker stuff for if/when you ever have oil use problems. The other nice thing about the Castrol product is it is pretty easy to get, no jumping through hoops.

I have a few Shipmates using Castrol in BMW and they're all happy with it, engines are staying clean. We had the VC off one at the Hobby Shack not long ago, 100,000+ on the clock and clean as a bell using GC 0W30.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
Note the timing gears from the 2.5 Boxster M96 engine. 0-40 M1 with excessive oil change interval. It was specified by the factory. Government regs have a great deal to do with current oil specs. Any of the products you have listed for consideration will be OK BUT chose an interval that suits the one you choose. Error on the side of caution. Any of the synthetic products listed are overkill,especially if the change interval is shortened. I treat my toys better than I have to,so no lecture here about spending more than you have to. DO WHAT YOU LIKE. You must have some opinion about what you do and dont want.


My OCI is normally @8K miles. Even under warranty I changed it halfway through. (I treat my toys better than I have to as well Smile)

I do have an opinion, thus the parameters I mentioned. But feel free to offer your advice. I may not heed it, but I won't bite your head off.

FWIW, I burn a qt /6k miles.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Castrol Syntec SAE 0W-30 European Formula (Meets all the specs.) That would be my choice, seems to be a favorite oil for many drivers, with tons of data backing it up. Save the thicker stuff for if/when you ever have oil use problems. The other nice thing about the Castrol product is it is pretty easy to get, no jumping through hoops.

I have a few Shipmates using Castrol in BMW and they're all happy with it, engines are staying clean. We had the VC off one at the Hobby Shack not long ago, 100,000+ on the clock and clean as a bell using GC 0W30.

AD


GC is a very good oil. I've used it a few times. The factory fill is rebadged Castrol TXT 5w-30.

There is one oil I didn't mention, though I'm using it. Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40.

Miscommunication between myself and my mechanic led to that. My fault that was. I wanted the Pz-5w-40, but the distributor didn't have it listed. (Common as we've heard over at BITOG). So I said "The M1 then.", meaning the 0w-40. Oops.....

Anyway, I looked up the specs, and was really surprised at the HTHS of 3.9, which is a tad higher the their 0w-40.
Trajan, what type of driving do you do, I remember corresponding with a member on BITOG about a particular 0W-20 motor oil that was rated for 25,000 miles or 1 year under normal service and 15,000 miles or one year under sever service, he asked me how many miles I drove the car a day, I said 20 miles to work and 20 miles back home, he recommended a 7500 mile OCI.

So, with what he told me, I am using PP 5W-20 and doing 5000 mile OCI's.

This person was a member of Terry Dyson's Blog, and he did not try to push Biosyn on me.
Im hesitant to recommend any product that I dont use myself or have any experience with. I can tell you the I use DELVAC 1 5-40 and lubrication engineers monolec SPB 5-30 in my own cars and trucks with no complaints. I also use lucas pure synthetic additive in some applications.Ive found it to be A very different product than their standard gorilla snot stabilizer. All depends on application and usage.
quote:
Originally posted by BKL98MK8LSC:
Im hesitant to recommend any product that I dont use myself or have any experience with. I can tell you the I use DELVAC 1 5-40 and lubrication engineers monolec SPB 5-30 in my own cars and trucks with no complaints. I also use lucas pure synthetic additive in some applications.Ive found it to be A very different product than their standard gorilla snot stabilizer. All depends on application and usage.


I came across this here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com...wthread.php?t=265292

"A note concerning Mobil 1 5w-40 SUV oil. I know that somebody is going to go to buy this and say "hey it doesn't say ACEA A3 on the back." They are correct. The 5w-40 oil repackaged Mobil Delvac 1, a Synthetic Heavy Duty Engine oil originally designed for trucks and fleet vehicles. This oil is slightly heavier than the 0w-40 and has an HTHS of 4.1. It meets ACEA E3,4 & 5 which are diesal requirements but still require an HTHS of greater than 3.5."

If it's the same as yours, that would be a good choice. I favor the higher HTHS numbers myself.

I hesitate to recommend oils I don't use too. In general though, I think an ACEA A3 oil is stouter than an non rated one of the same weight. JMHO though.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Trajan, what type of driving do you do, I remember corresponding with a member on BITOG about a particular 0W-20 motor oil that was rated for 25,000 miles or 1 year under normal service and 15,000 miles or one year under sever service, he asked me how many miles I drove the car a day, I said 20 miles to work and 20 miles back home, he recommended a 7500 mile OCI.

So, with what he told me, I am using PP 5W-20 and doing 5000 mile OCI's.

This person was a member of Terry Dyson's Blog, and he did not try to push Biosyn on me.


It's a car built for high speed/high rpm driving all day Smile

But seriously now. Most of my driving is highway. I'm about 1/2 mile or less from an expressway. Usually shift @2-2.5k, but once in awhile I rip it to 6k or do the Itailian tuneup.

No track days. But I average about 20K miles a year. (Bought it 4/06 with 10,300 miles, just turned 113,000 today.)
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bear:
Trajan, what type of driving do you do, I remember corresponding with a member on BITOG about a particular 0W-20 motor oil that was rated for 25,000 miles or 1 year under normal service and 15,000 miles or one year under sever service, he asked me how many miles I drove the car a day, I said 20 miles to work and 20 miles back home, he recommended a 7500 mile OCI.

So, with what he told me, I am using PP 5W-20 and doing 5000 mile OCI's.

This person was a member of Terry Dyson's Blog, and he did not try to push Biosyn on me.


It's a car built for high speed/high rpm driving all day Smile

But seriously now. Most of my driving is highway. I'm about 1/2 mile or less from an expressway. Usually shift @2-2.5k, but once in awhile I rip it to 6k or do the Itailian tuneup.

No track days. But I average about 20K miles a year. (Bought it 4/06 with 10,300 miles, just turned 113,000 today.)


Since you do Highway Driving, I am guessing your driving at least 30 miles or so one way, and about 30 miles back, regardless of how many miles you drive on the highway, this is not stop and go driving, so 8000 mile OCI's should be fine.

If this car were seeing mostly stop and go driving or short trips then I would be more concerned with the oil choice. JMO
Trajan,
Might look at Royal Purple 0w-40. API certified, meets A3 specs.

My mechanic just filled my Titan's sump with 2qt's RP break-in, and the rest 5w-30. He just installed my JWT cams and springs. I will run it for 1K then dump.

Eneos is getting some good reviews, although it's TBN is a little low, but supposedly, it retains it longer.

If not, run GC. I just bought a few qt's (all they had at A.Z.), for my OPE. If the truck does not like RP, I am going to use GC.

Have a good weekend, I am headed to Crystal River tomorrow for some scalloping over the long weekend.
Dave
The only thing with RP, is they keep the HTHS a secret, but if the 0W-40 meets A3 spec., It would be a good bet it will meet LL-01. I have started using Synthetics in just about everything now, although Dino's are just about as good. The Wife's Altima is filled with PYB for a 3000 OCI (because I received a few jugs from a friend). She does a lot of short trips. Next OCI will be PP or PU.

I have not been scalloping in a few years, so should be fun. My Sister decided not to sell her 330Ci, so I am using some of my saved money for me and the Wife. She is getting new rims and tires for the Altima, I got cams and headers for the Titan.

Dave
The LL-01 is a different spec then A3. You get one free oil change per year or 15,000 miles, which ever comes first, so they have that spec.

http://sas-origin.onstreammedi...009/RP/PC/index.html

Now that I'm out of warranty, I can bend on the LL spec. But if I do decide to go 10k between changes, then I'd lean towards it.

But still, the RP is a viable choice. Nice to have a boatload of good oil to choose from.
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
From what I have read, A3 is one of the requirements of the LL spec.

There are quite a few quality, off the shelf oils that will meet your needs.

The RP seems to keep my Titan happy, although I have only had it in for 200 miles. I don't know if the extra cost is worth it, as platinum works as good in the VK56DE.

Dave


It is a requirement, but if you look at the link and compare the two (ACEA A3 with BMW LL-01), you'll see a bit of difference.

Kind of like how all poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles. (M1 High Mileage 10w-40 is ACEA A3, but not LL-01, for example.)

One reason I started this was to look for and discuss a viable alternative/s. I didn't know RP made a 0w-40.

Thanks to you, now I know of another worthy oil Smile
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
Summit Racing carries it, but I am sure it can be found cheaper elsewhere. I am still learning about the different man. specifications. Some of the articles I have read until my eyes bleed.

BTW, the 5w-30 and 40 is only A-2. The 0w-40 is A3.

Dave


Eyes bleed and head spin. Probably why it's just so much easier to look at BMWNA's list. They did all the work for me.

But what would be the fun it that? (HEHE)
I hear ya Big Grin

I think any of the oils you listed will work fine in the Bimmer. If I could "will" myself to going 10K OCI's I would run RP or GC all the time in the Titan. But I am conservative and run 5-6K on syn and 3-4K on dino juice.

These Jim Wolf cams have made a big difference on the Titan. Mid-range power band is much wider. I will find out tomorrow how they handle tugging a 19' Key West flats boat (My buddy lets me borrow it).

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
I hear ya Big Grin

I think any of the oils you listed will work fine in the Bimmer. If I could "will" myself to going 10K OCI's I would run RP or GC all the time in the Titan. But I am conservative and run 5-6K on syn and 3-4K on dino juice.

These Jim Wolf cams have made a big difference on the Titan. Mid-range power band is much wider. I will find out tomorrow how they handle tugging a 19' Key West flats boat (My buddy lets me borrow it).

Dave


Thw M1 0w-40, the two Castrols I've used, so I know they work, The others are hard to find. I've seen the Pento at a National Auto. Everything else looks like mail order.

Nothing wrong with being conservative. You beefed up the motor, so it's a good thing anyway. You already use quality oil/filter, so you're good.

Sometimes I want to get more HP. But every BMW forum I look at says the same thing. Forced induction. The stock engine is pretty much maxed out as it is, so a software update/CAI/headers/catback will only give about 3-5 more.

Anyway, enjoy the weekend!!!
The German's have figured out how to get the most out of the engine, especially the smaller inline 6's.

Heck, the Krauts had synthetic oil during WWII!

The VK56DE in my truck, was modified for pulling. The original design was for the Q56 Infinity, with sodium filled valves, etc. Nissan just changed the valve train for truck work.

After driving my Sisters 330Ci, I can attest to the fact that BMW knows what they are doing. Medium displacement, HP number low on paper, but man does that thing sing on the hwy, and corner like it is on rails. Where I work, we are phasing out the HD Road King police for the BMW 1200RTP. The Hawgs pull away til about 20, then the Beamers say Bye Bye. Better warranty, balance, performance, 2 batteries, yep Germans know what they are doing. Maintenance is cheaper too.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Deltona_Dave:
The German's have figured out how to get the most out of the engine, especially the smaller inline 6's.

Heck, the Krauts had synthetic oil during WWII!

The VK56DE in my truck, was modified for pulling. The original design was for the Q56 Infinity, with sodium filled valves, etc. Nissan just changed the valve train for truck work.

After driving my Sisters 330Ci, I can attest to the fact that BMW knows what they are doing. Medium displacement, HP number low on paper, but man does that thing sing on the hwy, and corner like it is on rails. Where I work, we are phasing out the HD Road King police for the BMW 1200RTP. The Hawgs pull away til about 20, then the Beamers say Bye Bye. Better warranty, balance, performance, 2 batteries, yep Germans know what they are doing. Maintenance is cheaper too.

Dave


Yes they do. best car I ever had. But oh the pain of having to fix it now....... Luckily my mechanic lets me bring my own parts.

If she ends up keeping it, inspect the expansion tank once in a while. It's a weak spot, and bimmers don't carry alot of coolant.

(I got lucky when mine cracked. Only cracked enough to empty itself and not the radiator.)
Wow, this is a whole lot of churn just to sort out what goes into your grocery-getter.

There is a dirty little aspect no one mentions here (because they may not be aware?) The formulation 'meets the spec', yippee. Pop open the bubbly. Does the batch in the bottle meet it? Are you buying from a company that plays the 'test until you get a pass, then put that on the CofA' game? What are their data handling guidelines for replicate results that are outside of acceptable test precision limits?

Since no one I know of gives you batch data unless you buy in bulk, you may be buying a pig in a poke.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
Wow, this is a whole lot of churn just to sort out what goes into your grocery-getter.

There is a dirty little aspect no one mentions here (because they may not be aware?) The formulation 'meets the spec', yippee. Pop open the bubbly. Does the batch in the bottle meet it? Are you buying from a company that plays the 'test until you get a pass, then put that on the CofA' game? What are their data handling guidelines for replicate results that are outside of acceptable test precision limits?

Since no one I know of gives you batch data unless you buy in bulk, you may be buying a pig in a poke.
You mean like the Mobil 1 API Certified 5w30 that Exxon said passed the API engine wear tests, yet when BP and Ashland tested the "same" product off the shelf, it failed the API engine wear spec miserably and showed 4 to 8 times more wear than the Castrol and Valvoline products?
LAMONT....
"Wow, this is a whole lot of churn just to sort out what goes into your grocery-getter.

There is a dirty little aspect no one mentions here (because they may not be aware?) The formulation 'meets the spec', yippee. Pop open the bubbly. Does the batch in the bottle meet it? Are you buying from a company that plays the 'test until you get a pass, then put that on the CofA' game? What are their data handling guidelines for replicate results that are outside of acceptable test precision limits?"

"Since no one I know of gives you batch data unless you buy in bulk, you may be buying a pig in a poke."


TIM..
"You mean like the Mobil 1 API Certified 5w30 that Exxon said passed the API engine wear tests, yet when BP and Ashland tested the "same" product off the shelf, it failed the API engine wear spec miserably and showed 4 to 8 times more wear than the Castrol and Valvoline products?"
----------------------------------------------

Tajan Said.....
Nice to see you both have oils suggestions.
Oh, wait........... you don't.[/QUOTE]

____________

I guess if you were a little more perceptive,Trajan....you would realize they both do have a suggestion...................that would be........to rethink your final decision about who the "winner is" as you stated earlier. They both know something about oil,you apparently..........don't.

I am not really sure what this thread is about since you have basically answered your own question in your first post. You already have stated that you use GC or M1. What oil decision are you looking for....................to change to another brand after all these years!

Why don't you take your own advice,Trajan............and ask BMW! Why ask us!!! What do we Know! BMW IS YODA IN YOUR CASE! SO USE THEIR APPROVED OIL,AND BE DONE WITH IT!

Your Quote...

"Engine makers know more about their engines than anyone. So I'm a big proponent of using mfg approved oil in my engine."


ENOUGH SAID............
I guess we could say the knife cuts both ways. What guarantee does a person have buying oil that claims to meet all certifications, yet doesn't participate in the program?

It is real easy to say you meet/exceed when you're not a member of that group that bothers with the API certs, because it costs too much. At least the major oil companies have some guidelines they have to follow, and have the API to answer to.

Notice I didn't mention any company names? There's a reason. Smile

AD
No Tim, I'm talking batch data, not formulation data. But you knew that.

Engine stand testing is a funny business because many of those tests are so complex that it is really easy to get a false fail (especially if that's what you wanted in the first place) but practically impossible to get a false pass. That is why those are some of the rare cases where it is an ethically valid practice to test until you pass.

With the possible exception of D 2272 for industrial oils, very few tests that would be used for batch certification fall into that category. Batch tests of necessity tend to fall into the 'go-no go' category.

Pulling a single batch and running a complex engine test once doesn't give you any useful data unless it's a pass in most cases.

Isn't it time for your Amsoil drum circle or something?
quote:
Originally posted by Lamont B Dumont:
Wow, this is a whole lot of churn just to sort out what goes into your grocery-getter.

There is a dirty little aspect no one mentions here (because they may not be aware?) The formulation 'meets the spec', yippee. Pop open the bubbly. Does the batch in the bottle meet it? Are you buying from a company that plays the 'test until you get a pass, then put that on the CofA' game? What are their data handling guidelines for replicate results that are outside of acceptable test precision limits?

Since no one I know of gives you batch data unless you buy in bulk, you may be buying a pig in a poke.


Lamont, I have a question, if I am choosing between 2 oil's and they both have tests is it fair to say that these tests are just pure Marketing to try and get me to buy there oil.

Would it be better to compare 2 different motor oil's by looking at each motor oil's PRODUCT DATA SHEETS.

I could then compare 40 Degree Celcius and 100 Degree Celcius Numbers

I could compare Flash Point and Pour Points.

I could compare HTHS Numbers as well as how both oil's do in the so called Cold Pumpability Test.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I guess we could say the knife cuts both ways. What guarantee does a person have buying oil that claims to meet all certifications, yet doesn't participate in the program?

It is real easy to say you meet/exceed when you're not a member of that group that bothers with the API certs, because it costs too much. At least the major oil companies have some guidelines they have to follow, and have the API to answer to.

Notice I didn't mention any company names? There's a reason. Smile

AD


One thing to make a claim. Different ball game when you have to prove it.

The oils I listed not only claim it, but can prove it. Unlike, well, you know, that oil that can't meet it's advertised weight.

The links BLK listed really intrigued me. All good oils. Just couldn't convince myself to go with that weight.

Thanks to those who made the suggestions before I chose what I did.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

One thing to make a claim. Different ball game when you have to prove it.


So true. Very easy to sit safely on the sidelines and say what you'd do if you were in the game. Stating you're the best, but since you're not part of it you enjoy the easy life having nothing to prove.

AD


What game! The game of politics? The only real game,the only real proving ground......is the market place,and how the masses play,or not!

If a product is not what it claims,the market place will brutally shoot it down! There is no easy life in the real world,Ad!
Its easy when you decide not to participate in certifications then claim you exceed them. Seems the market place decided that Mobil is #1, and everyone compares themselves to Mobil 1.

True there is no easy life in the real world, but some companies try and make it easier and cheaper by shooting their mouths off that they're the best but not playing in the game.

AD
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