2 Cycle Oil as 4 Cycle Engine Fuel Additive

Due to the rather thin mix ratio I doubt it will do any harm. Problem is I doubt it would do much good at such a thin ratio either. I say thin because regular mix ratio's for 2 stroke oil is from 1:16 to 1:50. So at .25 oz. to the gallon that would be 1/10th of the 1:50 ratio, thin. Using a additive designed for 4 cycle engines would provide adequate lubricity at 1:400 ratio or 1.28 oz. to 4 gallons. You would be using just slightly more but getting better lubrication along with additional benefits like cleaning up the fuel system and helping with water contamination.

Since cars are routinely going 100,000 miles +++ without doing this I would have to ask what if any benefit is to be derived? On the "con" side, what is this doing to the life of the catalytic converter?

John from PA

Why add the 2C oil? Cars do go over 100,000 miles, but I drive them closer to 200,000 miles. Also even within the 100,000 miles you do hear about fuel pumps going out and injectors needing to be cleaned or replaced. So there appears to be a need. The question is whether the 2C is going to really address that need or not.

I think a product like MMO might be better, it is an upper cylinder lubricant and it will keep fuel injectors from getting clogged. I run 4 ounces of MMO to 10 gallons of fuel and it is keeping my carburetor running perfect.

quote:

Originally posted by TallPaul:
Since last April I have been routinely adding 1 ounce of 2-cycle oil (TC3W or whatever the high standard stuff is) to each 4 gallons of gasoline in my vehicles. I figure it is going to help lube fuel pump, injectors, rings (especially on start up when oil has drained off cyl walls), valves, etc. Also may help keep things clean. Any thoughts?

I tried this with a Acura Integra GSR. Went from 28mpg to 30mpg.

The problem in the longrun is the cat converters clogging up..

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bear:
I think a product like MMO might be better, it is an upper cylinder lubricant and it will keep fuel injectors from getting clogged. I run 4 ounces of MMO to 10 gallons of fuel and it is keeping my carburetor running perfect.

MMO is great stuff! But... 2-Cycle is cheaper.

Anyone had any experience doing this with DIESEL fuel?

[Update 5/16/09: Seems like it works well in Diesel but some have commented that Power Service as an additive does a better job because you get a cetane boost amongst other things not just a lubrication boost.]

@TallPaul: You might be interested in this
http://www.thedieselstop.com/f...lowing-smoke-188966/

I'm switching over to MMO. Already running MMO in the Aerostar and Motorhome, the 4.9L F150 will continue to get 2C oil until I use up my remaining 10 qts, or maybe I can sell it off.

Cheapest I've seen is @ Walmart. 32Oz for $3.6

Before using MMo in the fuel I like to run a bottle of fuel injector cleaner followed by a Maintenance Dose of MMO. It is important to make sure the fuel system is clean.

A Maintenance Dose of MMO will do many things:

1) Lube the fuel system
2) Upper Cylinder Lubricant
3) Keep fuel injectors clean

The 2-Cycle Oil is just going to be a top end lube, it has no cleaning abilities and it will not keep the fuel system clean like MMO.

Since using MMO I have noticed a 2 m.p.g. improvement, I feel the MMO is keeping the valves sealed and clean as well as keeping the fuel injectors free of carbon.

quote:

. . .
A Maintenance Dose of MMO will do many things:

1) Lube the fuel system
2) Upper Cylinder Lubricant
3) Keep fuel injectors clean

The 2-Cycle Oil is just going to be a top end lube, it has no cleaning abilities and it will not keep the fuel system clean like MMO.
. . .

But remember, the TC-W3 has to be able to perform as a cleaner in the engines for which it's really meant. Wouldn't the cleaning ability conferred upon it (albeit meant for the 2C engine) also act as a cleaner in a 4C engine as well?

BTW, I've been experimenting with the PZ ester-based syn TC-W3 at about 400:1. I can't draw any hard conclusions yet, but I do seem to have had a slight mileage increase. Also, the frequent starts of the gas engine (I'm driving a Camry hybrid) are notably smoother, to the point that I miss some of them. I'm inclined to think there's something to it, as I often use the slight rumble of the engine pre-lubing itself as a cue to back off the gas pedal, in order to prolong an all-electric run.

As a previous poster noted, my car could almost certainly live a long, happy life minus any additives, but hey, it's a fun and educational experiment anyway.

I may just have to agree with epolk here, even though I use MMO in the fuel and I have not used the TC-W3, there are just too many positive posts about TC-W3 so I may have to give this stuff a try.

I see some familiar people here, hello! I'm a fairly long time MMO user, a tradition passed down from decades of dad using it. I recently tried TC-W3 and for some reason like the MMO better in the gas. The engine seems to run well with either, but I have given up slight mpgs with the TC-W3. I also noticed that if you give too big a dose of TC-W3 the engine lacks some power, where as you would have to go hog wild with the MMO. Just my observations, YMMV.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
I see some familiar people here, hello! I'm a fairly long time MMO user, a tradition passed down from decades of dad using it. I recently tried TC-W3 and for some reason like the MMO better in the gas. The engine seems to run well with either, but I have given up slight mpgs with the TC-W3. I also noticed that if you give too big a dose of TC-W3 the engine lacks some power, where as you would have to go hog wild with the MMO. Just my observations, YMMV.

AD

AD:

Interesting observations. I'm a bit over a month into my syn TC-W3 experiment, so far using only the Penz ester-based full-syn version. My engine seems to love the stuff. I can feel it "seat of the pants" and I'm seeing a slight, but pleasing increase in mpgs (guessing it will stabilize at around 2 mpg, maybe very slightly less).

Regarding your comments about the TC-W3 -- remember that unlike MMO (and I have no problem with that product), TC-W3 oils have to meet prescribed industry standards. But more importantly, they MUST function as complete lubrication for the 2C engines for which they're really meant. Since this stuff has to carry a full burden as engine lube, I'd expect it to be a more "stout" oil, and one that if overdosed into a 4C engine, might very predictably cause things to bog down some. At the proper dose, however, I'm starting to believe that TC-W3 is the near-perfect answer to the hot, dry, barely lubricated top end of a modern 4C car engine.

A few years ago when the 2 strokes were still very popular, we found that Petrol Pumps in India ( Gasoline/Diesel Service Stations) particularly in the rural India were supplying recycled or spurious lube oils and passing them off as 2 T oils. Needless to say this generated lot of pollution in the air apart from damaging bikes.

One single factor that differentiates 2 T oil with 4 stroke oil is its "dispercent package." In two stroke bikes the fuel is the carrier for the lubricity, hence good dispercency ensures the "Oil" is mixed speedily before it goes into combustion. I also recall we used to give demos to users by releasing a few drops of 2T Dispercent Oil and Engine Oil in measuring cylinders, containing Petrol. The engine oil would sink to the bottom, while the 2T oil had started mixing after dropping into the fuel.

If you are using this property to reach critical areas, its a great idea. More so, as currently available Euro IV type fuels, while they have low sulphur ( 10 ppm) have thier inherently available aromatic compounds stripped along with Sulphur ( by hydro treatment) thus, off late the injectors, pumps are prone to wear. In fact, I recall reading, that Bosch is now replacing a higher percentage of injectors/pumps than ever before.

Finally, I feel that by use of good fuel additives ( which also possess detergency ) you get desired results. If the additive also provides some "wear protection" (like Boron CLS Bond ) you would have met your objective and more.

Hussam

http://www.freel2.com/forum/to...8.html?highlight=oil

Good technical discussion on 2stroke oil in diesel, kudos to Yamaha Fan for her well defined replies.

quote:

Originally posted by ekpolk:

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
I see some familiar people here, hello! I'm a fairly long time MMO user, a tradition passed down from decades of dad using it. I recently tried TC-W3 and for some reason like the MMO better in the gas. The engine seems to run well with either, but I have given up slight mpgs with the TC-W3. I also noticed that if you give too big a dose of TC-W3 the engine lacks some power, where as you would have to go hog wild with the MMO. Just my observations, YMMV.

AD

AD:

Interesting observations. I'm a bit over a month into my syn TC-W3 experiment, so far using only the Penz ester-based full-syn version. My engine seems to love the stuff. I can feel it "seat of the pants" and I'm seeing a slight, but pleasing increase in mpgs (guessing it will stabilize at around 2 mpg, maybe very slightly less).

Regarding your comments about the TC-W3 -- remember that unlike MMO (and I have no problem with that product), TC-W3 oils have to meet prescribed industry standards. But more importantly, they MUST function as complete lubrication for the 2C engines for which they're really meant. Since this stuff has to carry a full burden as engine lube, I'd expect it to be a more "stout" oil, and one that if overdosed into a 4C engine, might very predictably cause things to bog down some. At the proper dose, however, I'm starting to believe that TC-W3 is the near-perfect answer to the hot, dry, barely lubricated top end of a modern 4C car engine.

That's been my observation as well. But I'm using the Walmart Supertech TC-W3.

What got me started: http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91206

ive always use super tech tcw3 oil. but over the past couple of years have had a lot of issues with our auto parts using this walmart tcw3. anyone aware of similar analysis regarding quality?

quote:

Good advise, my dad has been adding MMO to gas since before I was born, and has lots of stories about MMO and its benefits. I have a Bitog buddy that swears by it as well. I think todays crappy gas needs all the help it can get.

AD

With Ethanol now being added to gasoline, it kind of dries things out from what I have heard, and of course they took the lead out of gasoline, I think that was kind of a lubricant, but that is just my thought, and its not a fact.

Lead additives also allowed lower octanes to be boosted up to 87. Which is why leaded 87 was cheaper than unleaded 87.

quote:

Originally posted by vsssarma:
In a 4 stroke engine, oil is stored separately, pumped into various parts as the engine starts and does its lubrication and cleaning work and returns to the tank. After every 5,000 KMs or so, the oil along with all the dirt is drained off. However, in a 2 stroke engine, generally the oil is mixed with petrol and directly taken to the combstion chamber. There is no re-circulation here and the used oil is thrown off into the atmosphere. The ability to clean the engines is known as 'detergency' and both the oils need it. However, 4 stroke oils also need 'dispersancy', the ability to hold the particles of combustion in suspension. For this purpose, special polar additives are added into 4 stroke oils, known as dispersants. They are essentially nitrogenous compounds.
A 4 Stroke oil is hence a more complete product than a 2 stroke oil. No useful purpose is served by adding a 2 stroke oil as a top-up to a 4 stroke oil. Well-formulated engine oils are tailor-made for each type of engine - 4 stroke or 2 stroke - and each type of fuel - petrol or diesel.

We're not talking about adding TCW-3 to the 4-stroke oil in the crankcase -- this is about using TCW-3 added in light doses to the FUEL. At worst, I see no damage being done by trying this strategy.

Why not use a product formulated specifically for your purpose such as https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/api.aspx?zo=1181889 ?

quote:

Originally posted by ekpolk:

quote:

Originally posted by vsssarma:
In a 4 stroke engine, oil is stored separately, pumped into various parts as the engine starts and does its lubrication and cleaning work and returns to the tank. After every 5,000 KMs or so, the oil along with all the dirt is drained off. However, in a 2 stroke engine, generally the oil is mixed with petrol and directly taken to the combstion chamber. There is no re-circulation here and the used oil is thrown off into the atmosphere. The ability to clean the engines is known as 'detergency' and both the oils need it. However, 4 stroke oils also need 'dispersancy', the ability to hold the particles of combustion in suspension. For this purpose, special polar additives are added into 4 stroke oils, known as dispersants. They are essentially nitrogenous compounds.
A 4 Stroke oil is hence a more complete product than a 2 stroke oil. No useful purpose is served by adding a 2 stroke oil as a top-up to a 4 stroke oil. Well-formulated engine oils are tailor-made for each type of engine - 4 stroke or 2 stroke - and each type of fuel - petrol or diesel.

We're not talking about adding TCW-3 to the 4-stroke oil in the crankcase -- this is about using TCW-3 added in light doses to the FUEL. At worst, I see no damage being done by trying this strategy.

1oz/5 gal IIRC. Been doing it for quite some time now.

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91206

Among other things, a gallon of TC-W3 from Walmart is cheaper than a gallon of MMO.

It doesn't have to be the synth oil, as he later points out, but it has to be the TC-W3.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
Why not use a product formulated specifically for your purpose such as https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/api.aspx?zo=1181889 ?

The PI additive is an expensive cleaner at best. Why not just purchase techron plus when it's on sale half price. It also has some level of lubricity. Does the PI have any lubricity?

Using a good fuel lube on a consistent basis at the proper dose certainly can't hurt....MMO,LUCAS,OR TCW3(680:1 RATIO).

I also use the Sta-bil marine grade that helps solve ethanol issues,along with about 3 oz of acetone per 10/gallon of fuel which gives me a consistent fuel economy increase of 10% that easily covers the additive cost AND THEN SOME.....for many years now with no ill effects at all.

Acetone is actually relatively mild compared to some other fuel additives,including gasoline itself. Some fuel additives like B-12 chem-tool already have acetone in the mix.

http://www.michigangasprices.c...7301&page_no=1&FAV=N

Any one additive by itself won't yield the 10%.......it's the synergistic effects of the combination of two or more additive with the acetone,but Sta-bil must be used in the mix. Sta-bil by itself won't yield 10% or even 1%.......Acetone + Stabil =10%.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
Why not use a product formulated specifically for your purpose such as https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/api.aspx?zo=1181889 ?

The PI additive is an expensive cleaner at best. Why not just purchase techron plus when it's on sale half price.

Actually, PI has been shown to save more money in gasoline savings than it costs. And it was introduced with a money back guarantee if you were not satisfied. Apparently thousands were satisfied and no one asked for their money back.

"P.i. Performance Improver Concentrate (API)
Improves fuel mileage an average of 2.3% and up to 5.7%. " At a retail cost of $10.60 for a 20 gallon tank treatment and repeat the recommended 4,000 miles. 4,000 miles at 20mpg and $3 a gallon = $600 spent in gasoline. If you get the average of 2.3%, you save $13.80 in gasoline.

In addition to the $3.20 you get to keep in your pocket, you "Reduces emissions such as hydrocarbons (HC) up to 15%, carbon monoxide (CO) up to 26% and nitrous oxides (NOx) up to 17%. Restores power and performance. Reduces the need for costly higher octane fuel. Reduces noise from carbon rap and pre-ignition. Offers better vehicle drivability and smoother operation." P.I. cleaned off 36 to 98% intake valve deposits, and cleaned off 35-63% combustion chamber deposits.

Here is an 8 page study on the product: https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2543.pdf .

Can you show that Techron or 2 stroke oil does all of this as well as AMSOIL Performance Improver gasoline additive?

quote:

Can you show that Techron or 2 stroke oil does all of this as well as AMSOIL Performance Improver gasoline additive?

Tim, I almost never use Techron,unless it's on sale at half price.........maybe.

I typically only use my own "recipe" I spoke of earlier and never have any issues. I never have any fuel injection cleaning services in any of my cars........never need too.

However, Techron PLUS is endorsed by many and will work very well,especially if the max dose is used.

I doubt very much that the PI improver is really that much better,IF AT ALL THAN TECHRON..........NOTICE HOW AMSOIL----IN THIS CASE......DOESN'T HAVE ANY DIRECT COMPARISON OF PI WITH ANY OTHER PRODUCT ON THE MARKET!! I WONDER WHY????

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

I doubt very much that the PI improver is really that much better,IF AT ALL THAN TECHRON..........NOTICE HOW AMSOIL----IN THIS CASE......DOESN'T HAVE ANY DIRECT COMPARISON OF PI WITH ANY OTHER PRODUCT ON THE MARKET!! I WONDER WHY????

So all you have is an anonymous opinion. AMSOIL has scientific test data they presented publicly.

AMSOIL shows their test data. Techron doesn't. I wonder why?......

Here is a good power point presentation for those who would like more info. http://amsoil.acrobat.com/pi/ .

Here is a Q & A for Performance Improver gasoline treatment. https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/...ice/OneVoice_API.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vipond:

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

I doubt very much that the PI improver is really that much better,IF AT ALL THAN TECHRON..........NOTICE HOW AMSOIL----IN THIS CASE......DOESN'T HAVE ANY DIRECT COMPARISON OF PI WITH ANY OTHER PRODUCT ON THE MARKET!! I WONDER WHY????

So all you have is opinion. AMSOIL has scientific test data.

AMSOIL shows their test data. Techron doesn't. I wonder why?......

Here is a good power point presentation for those who would like more info. http://amsoil.acrobat.com/pi/ .

Here is a Q & A for Performance Improver gasoline treatment. https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/...ice/OneVoice_API.pdf

WELL,let's hear from everyone else and what they have used in the past when they have had a need to use a fuel injection cleaner........like-------Techron,redline,or even the BG-44 STUFF,etc. Not saying the PI isn't any good,just suspect it's not really much better if at all then what I have mentioned thus far.

I still say Amsoil left out the competition for a reason!

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:

I still say Amsoil left out the competition for a reason!

Feel free to call AMSOIL tech support at Product Technical Services: (715)399-TECH if you truly want the reason. I think the very complete testing and tear downs AMSOIL did on many vehicles was very expensive and they may not have seen the need to test a bunch of old technology products. They are open from 8 to 5 M-F.

Since you are asking for input, I have personally seen an old Kawasaki motorcycle that barely ran, run perfectly during a one tank treatment.

A lot of people have told me their vehicles run better with the Performance Improver. Some notice better idling. Quicker starts.

Hello...I am the guy that started that thread awhile back on LS1.COM. All I can say is we have documented well over 6 million miles in our volunteers automobiles since I began this experiment.
To date not one negative. So many postives from quiter fuel pumps to MPG increases to quieter valve assembly.
I do not defend nor sale anything. I just set it up and documented all of it.
I am now doing the same thing on MMO.

Sarge- I've been using MMO in the gas for a quite a while, my dad and uncle have been doing so for close to 4 decades now. TCW3 is also another good thing to add to the gas. I read the thread on the LS1 forum. You certainly put a lot of time and effort into it, and there is a lot of real world testimony from people not trying to sell product every chance they get.

I have a buddy in NY that has been using MMO for decades too, and has recently switched a mini van that uses oil from MMO in the gas to TCW3. He thinks the TCW3 might have helped reduce oil use. He is still testing and not 100% sure as of the last time we spoke.

You have my trust and respect sir. Glad to see you posting here! There is a lot of benefit to old technology in this instance, this is not rocket science, just using tried and true products that work! A product doesn't have to be expensive to work!



AD

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


The PI additive is an expensive cleaner at best. Why not just purchase techron plus when it's on sale half price. It also has some level of lubricity. Does the PI have any lubricity?

Using a good fuel lube on a consistent basis at the proper dose certainly can't hurt....MMO,LUCAS,OR TCW3(680:1 RATIO).

I also use the Sta-bil marine grade that helps solve ethanol issues,along with about 3 oz of acetone per 10/gallon of fuel which gives me a consistent fuel economy increase of 10% that easily covers the additive cost AND THEN SOME.....for many years now with no ill effects at all.

Acetone is actually relatively mild compared to some other fuel additives,including gasoline itself. Some fuel additives like B-12 chem-tool already have acetone in the mix.

http://www.michigangasprices.c...7301&page_no=1&FAV=N

Any one additive by itself won't yield the 10%.......it's the synergistic effects of the combination of two or more additive with the acetone,but Sta-bil must be used in the mix. Sta-bil by itself won't yield 10% or even 1%.......Acetone + Stabil =10%.

Good info Kirk! My buddy in NY pretty much summed up PI the same way you have. Expensive cleaner at best, and he wasn't impressed with it at all. He said if you really want a good cleaner and UCL to buy the Red Line product. It is both a cleaner and a UCL, and can be added at 1.5 ounces/10 galls of gas, for full time use.

Me I'll stick to a good FI cleaner twice a year and 4 ounces of MMO/10 gallons of gas. At less than $4 a qt at Wally Mart MMO is a deal!

AD

I'll take undisputed published facts and ASTM test results over an anonymous poster and his anonymous buddy's opinion any day.

Me too Tim. Like I said the documentation has been more or less my own personal tracking of certain parameters results. Solely based on volunteers input.

I would ask you though.....When I started the TCW3 project I had no idea it would go viral. Google TCW3. We had over 1900 links (from different forums) back to the original thread. My point is....it is very difficult to ignore thousands of personal postings sharing their personal experience using it (TCW3 in fuel) in their cars. Impossible to "create" would you not agree?

I see your the Amsoil Dealer Warrior on here....I get it now .....

Look Tim...I am not selling nor advocating anything. I am just documenting results. Separating chatter from real world results. I do it on many automotive items from "Magic Spark Plugs" to "Magic Oil Additives". Been doing it for years.

Not big on "sponsored" marketing test results from paid "experts"....I am a simple guy and like thousands of anonymous users testimony. Users with no distributorship agendas. Just regular folks.

Use what you wish Tim.

And for the record I am the one that invited (through Pablo) CompSyn to ls1.com simply because I am an advocate of Amsoil products. Not as a "across the board" solution to every application but a great company with good products. You want to verify who I am? Only I,Pablo and CompSyn know that fact. Ask them.

The internet....sheesh.....this is why I semi retired from it.

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
Sarge- I've been using MMO in the gas for a quite a while, my dad and uncle have been doing so for close to 4 decades now. TCW3 is also another good thing to add to the gas. I read the thread on the LS1 forum. You certainly put a lot of time and effort into it, and there is a lot of real world testimony from people not trying to sell product every chance they get.

I have a buddy in NY that has been using MMO for decades too, and has recently switched a mini van that uses oil from MMO in the gas to TCW3. He thinks the TCW3 might have helped reduce oil use. He is still testing and not 100% sure as of the last time we spoke.

You have my trust and respect sir. Glad to see you posting here! There is a lot of benefit to old technology in this instance, this is not rocket science, just using tried and true products that work! A product doesn't have to be expensive to work!



AD

Well thank you young man. When I was in the Navy we had oars and threw rocks at the bad guys. I did two WesPacs on the USS Chicago CG-11 in the early 70's

I am doing the same thing with MMO now. I have about 300 volunteers around the country documenting a 6 point survery on a weekly basis using MMO in their gas. We also are looking at a MMO in the oil survey also. It is fun to see results.

Most threads on this board become an Amsoil selling platform with a links to some Amsoil Sales Data which looks more to me like Amsoil hype. Sarge it seems in your LS1 thread it was the less expensive TCW3 oils that netted some pretty impressive results for many members. Simple, been around forever, easily available at Wally-Mart TCW3, and most importantly cheap which you mentioned several times IIRC. I see no reason to use the expensive Amsoil product, and then have to pay a $20 fee for the right to buy it for a little less. TCW3 works, you've proven it, why did this thread like so many others turn into an Amsoil sales pitch? Am I the only member that sees it?

When you come down to it Sarge you're an anonymous poster too, clearly though not trying to sell anything. I have more respect for data you post than from some salesman linking to product he sells, who BTW was launched for his sales tactics from at least one other site, possibly more. It appears others agreed and got tired of it too!

I wish this topic could stay on topic, about TCW3 as a 4 cycle engine fuel add, and not another Amsoil sales platform. That's getting old, real fast.

AD

Oh And Tim...I see you utilize feedback and not just "test results" in your desire to share data also. Just so I am clear....are these private individuals API certified super duper lab certified documented geeks? Or are they just folks who shared their experience and you utilize their testimony? LOL. Asmoil lives off of personal private indivdual testimony. Why do you attack folks when they share the same thing?
Oh well....I did not sign up here just to jib jab with you. Actually I like the maturity most members here show versus other oil forums that seem to have died and gone to ricer forum hell.


[quote=Tim Vipond]Sure. Ask any of the thousands of Texas State Troopers that have run AMSOIL for 20,000 severe mile oil and filter changes in thousands of patrol cars over the past 10 years.

Or ask Haywood Gray: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1343.pdf

Or John Small with Sears: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1009.pdf

Or Brian Johnson with Nordic Waste: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2695.pdf

Or Jason Wick: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2244.pdf

And of course, JD Green in post #5 above.[/quote]

quote:

Originally posted by Sarge:
Oh And Tim...I see you utilize feedback and not just "test results" in your desire to share data also. Just so I am clear....are these private individuals API certified super duper lab certified documented geeks? Or are they just folks who shared their experience and you utilize their testimony? LOL. Asmoil lives off of personal private indivdual testimony. Why do you attack folks when they share the same thing?
Oh well....I did not sign up here just to jib jab with you. Actually I like the maturity most members here show versus other oil forums that seem to have died and gone to ricer forum hell.


[quote=Tim Vipond]Sure. Ask any of the thousands of Texas State Troopers that have run AMSOIL for 20,000 severe mile oil and filter changes in thousands of patrol cars over the past 10 years.

Or ask Haywood Gray: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1343.pdf

Or John Small with Sears: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1009.pdf

Or Brian Johnson with Nordic Waste: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2695.pdf

Or Jason Wick: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2244.pdf

And of course, JD Green in post #5 above.

[/QUOTE]

I was asked for personal testimonies, so I supplied them. Real people with real data. Easily verified.

As a retired scientist, I prefer published data. No one has disputed and proven AMSOIL's data incorrect in 38 years.

Could you provide the data for your test results? Seems you ought to get them published in a trade magazine so they can be scrutinized and verified. Then we all win.

Also, if adding 2 cycle oil to a 4 cycle engine is so great, why aren't all the major 2 cycle oil manufacturers recommending it? They have the test facilities, have research scientists, have test vehicles, have test protocols, etc. They would make lots of extra money, yet don't make this recommendation. Hmmm.......

And AD, no one is required to pay $20 to buy AMSOIL products. I give free wholesale pricing for anyone with a qualified business. No $20 fee when you purchase AMSOIL products at stores. But you knew that.

I don't have a business Tim, and have no desire to buy Amsoil, my father used it, we'll pass. The last time I saw Amsoil in a store on Whidbey Island, WA it was covered with dust, the price was way to high. Check out Bitog they mention Amsoil covered with dust in the stores, even Pablo acknowledged that IIRC I'll have to check the tread out.

I also get the feeling that you think the people who tested TCW3 that Sarge mentioned had no results because it is only their testimony given. Maybe you should get on the LS1 board and tell them.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vipond:

quote:

Originally posted by Sarge:
Oh And Tim...I see you utilize feedback and not just "test results" in your desire to share data also. Just so I am clear....are these private individuals API certified super duper lab certified documented geeks? Or are they just folks who shared their experience and you utilize their testimony? LOL. Asmoil lives off of personal private indivdual testimony. Why do you attack folks when they share the same thing?
Oh well....I did not sign up here just to jib jab with you. Actually I like the maturity most members here show versus other oil forums that seem to have died and gone to ricer forum hell.


[quote=Tim Vipond]Sure. Ask any of the thousands of Texas State Troopers that have run AMSOIL for 20,000 severe mile oil and filter changes in thousands of patrol cars over the past 10 years.

Or ask Haywood Gray: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1343.pdf

Or John Small with Sears: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1009.pdf

Or Brian Johnson with Nordic Waste: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2695.pdf

Or Jason Wick: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2244.pdf

And of course, JD Green in post #5 above.

I was asked for personal testimonies, so I supplied them. Real people with real data. Easily verified.

As a retired scientist, I prefer published data. No one has disputed and proven AMSOIL's data incorrect in 38 years.

Could you provide the data for your test results? Seems you ought to get them published in a trade magazine so they can be scrutinized and verified. Then we all win.

Also, if adding 2 cycle oil to a 4 cycle engine is so great, why aren't all the major 2 cycle oil manufacturers recommending it? They have the test facilities, have research scientists, have test vehicles, have test protocols, etc. They would make lots of extra money, yet don't make this recommendation. Hmmm.......

And AD, no one is required to pay $20 to buy AMSOIL products. I give free wholesale pricing for anyone with a qualified business. No $20 fee when you purchase AMSOIL products at stores. But you knew that.[/QUOTE]
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This is funny. You want me to publish a technical paper and your supplied personal quotes are somehow superior? Did you read my very first post here? I just organize the "project" and track the input from regular Joe's.
Why don't manufactures make solid walnut dashboards versus plastic? HHHmmmmmmm. I mean walnut is better isn't it?HHHmmmmmm.
I have been in technology for over 40 years. I know "scientist" who cannot blow their nose and I know "scientist who are brilliant. So what? Am I supposed to wither in your presence because you tell me your a scientist? Heck fire Tim....and I repeat....we ( the people whom participate in these little projects of mine) are just compiling data. All data is personal observation. And if you did not know...personal observation is where the rubber meets the road for us regular guys. Not some marketing "data"....and I see you use personal input yourself quite often. Then attack others for doing the exact same thing. Did you learn that trick in science school? LOL......have your Texas Highway Patrol guys publish their tech papers there big boy...take your own advise.
I see you have been banned in many forums for your trollish behaviour pumping Amsoil.
I am very plugged into the Texas Highway Patrol Regional office here in South Texas. They use bulk Valvoline. I guess they did not get your memo.

quote:

Originally posted by ADFD1:
I don't have a business Tim, and have no desire to buy Amsoil, my father used it, we'll pass. The last time I saw Amsoil in a store on Whidbey Island, WA it was covered with dust, the price was way to high. Check out Bitog they mention Amsoil covered with dust in the stores, even Pablo acknowledged that IIRC I'll have to check the tread out.

I also get the feeling that you think the people who tested TCW3 that Sarge mentioned had no results because it is only their testimony given. Maybe you should get on the LS1 board and tell them.

AD

Oh goodness...he doesn't want to do that. Those are gearheads. They will eat him alive. CompSyn does a good job there. Offers advise across all oil manufacturers platforms. People respect that. I retired as the Super Mod there. So I cannot protect him
If I had a bug problem some Amsoil "Jobbers" will tell me to spray them with 0-30 Amsoil cuz it's the best. Is this just an Amsoil marketing site?