Having used both MMO and 2 cycle TC-W3 in the fuel, I lean towards the latter.
It does the same thing, and if you buy the Supertech, is cheaper to boot.
But, since it is not aimed at the 4 cycle market, of course they don't reccommend it. That doesn't mean it doesn't work.
And they will not do so. Probably because some bone head will either add a quart or more to his crankcase, or add that or more to his fuel. And seek legal action when he wrecks his ride.
Just like that bone head who ran the wrong oil in his turbo diesel way over the oci, and expected Ford to cover his screw up.
Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity
quote:It does the same thing, and if you buy the Supertech, is cheaper to boot.
But, since it is not aimed at the 4 cycle market, of course they don't reccommend it. That doesn't mean it doesn't work.
And they will not do so. Probably because some bone head will either add a quart or more to his crankcase, or add that or more to his fuel. And seek legal action when he wrecks his ride.
Just like that bone head who ran the wrong oil in his turbo diesel way over the oci, and expected Ford to cover his screw up.
Good points. I think the % of people using it as a UCL is so small the companies making the stuff see little to no profit margin in it, so why bother marketing it. And yea the bone head who fouls his plugs because he used to much, will quickly cry foul. It's car buffs that think out of the box and experiment, and find things like TCW3 work well.
AD
quote:Originally posted by TallPaul:
Since last April I have been routinely adding 1 ounce of 2-cycle oil (TC3W or whatever the high standard stuff is) to each 4 gallons of gasoline in my vehicles. I figure it is going to help lube fuel pump, injectors, rings (especially on start up when oil has drained off cyl walls), valves, etc. Also may help keep things clean. Any thoughts?
You're on the right track. TCW3 is the right one to use. It's ashless, thus catconv friendly.
It is a constant use thing though. But all that will happen if you stop is that your engine will go back to the way it was.
The ratio is right. Less will do no good. More, well at worst, you "might" foul a plug. Just drive awhile and top the tank off to restore the mixture..
I did look for the PZ brand. It's synth, and of course costs more,but couldn't find it. But all the reading I've done tells me that the Walmart Supertech works just as well. And it's much cheaper.
Also read that you should shake up the container before you use it as it kills the smell.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Having used both MMO and 2 cycle TC-W3 in the fuel, I lean towards the latter.
It does the same thing, and if you buy the Supertech, is cheaper to boot.
Just remember,the supertech has a good deal of solvents in the formula, and the 1 oz/5 gallons of gasoline was not based on the rather thin and dilute super tech stuff.
Someone will have to give some input on how much more to use in the case of ST....I would think 1.2 oz/5 gallons.
From Tim V.
[QUOTE] No matter what other people say. Do not use 2 cycle engine oil in a
4 cycle motor. You will cause major damage to your engine.
Well Tim if you're reading my response to Trajan....where are all those 'blown up' engines on all the forums including this one.......we talking 500:1---640:1 ASHLESS......GIVE ME A BREAK!
I go two steps further .......Acetone,Stabil(ethanal fix),and the fuel lube. WORKS BETTER THAN EVEN A PROFFESSONAL DEALER FUEL SYSTEM CLEAN,OR EVEN DOUBLE DOSE TECHCRON.........PEROID! This is done with every fuel up and it actually pays for itself...did the math!
You'll have to ask Shell Oil Company. That was their answer, not mine.quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Well Tim if you're reading my response to Trajan....where are all those 'blown up' engines on all the forums including this one.......we talking 500:1---640:1 ASHLESS......GIVE ME A BREAK!
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:You'll have to ask Shell Oil Company. That was their answer, not mine.quote:Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Well Tim if you're reading my response to Trajan....where are all those 'blown up' engines on all the forums including this one.......we talking 500:1---640:1 ASHLESS......GIVE ME A BREAK!
I have a better Idea Tim,let's have shell ask us... what the Real world data is,becuase we know better than they,becuase we live it!
For example,the drug companies don't have all the facts until people report back that a drug is good or bad to their doctors based on actual use......making us the last,and final 'study' of a new drug....NICE,ISN'T IT!
Have you noticed all the lawsuits with drugs being pulled off the market lately......even though they passed all the 'studies',and various hurdles to get in the market place as the final proof for my argument.
This reality also works with everything else in the market place including lubricants,hence all the constant change,recalls,etc.
I am sure Shell told you what they did only for legal reasons, not scientific reasons. After all,the data makes the only real argument!
In sum,adding 1 oz to 5 gallons of ashless two stroke oil in ones tank,will only do good,especially if you cycle MMO for a duration to vary and enhance the effect for lubricity and cleanliness, better still with top tier fuel.
As far as I can see, Amsoil 2 cycle oil is not TC-W3 certified, thus not suitable for cars that have cats.
Why would I pay $10.60, plus shipping, etc, for a 12oz bottle of that PI, when I can pay @$12 for the Supertech TC-W3?. For 128ozs.....
The PI is not cost effective. The ROI is horrible.
I can treat 42.6 tanks of gas on the ST. 3oz per tank. 16,800 miles on a gallon of ST.
The equivilent PI, since you use it every 4K miles, is a bit more than $42.40. Not counting shipping.
So I can either pay @$12 every 16-17K miles, or more than $40.
Why would I pay $10.60, plus shipping, etc, for a 12oz bottle of that PI, when I can pay @$12 for the Supertech TC-W3?. For 128ozs.....
The PI is not cost effective. The ROI is horrible.
I can treat 42.6 tanks of gas on the ST. 3oz per tank. 16,800 miles on a gallon of ST.
The equivilent PI, since you use it every 4K miles, is a bit more than $42.40. Not counting shipping.
So I can either pay @$12 every 16-17K miles, or more than $40.
I'm not sure why you seem to want to go off subject and discuss AMSOIL, but since you want to:
• Improves fuel mileage an average of 2.3% and up to 5.7%
• Reduced emissions
— hydrocarbons (HC) up to 15%
— carbon monoxide (CO) up to 26%
— nitrous oxides (NOx) up to 17%
• Restored power and performance
• Reduced need for costly higher octane fuel
• Reduced noise from carbon rap and pre-ignition
• Better drivability
• Smoother operation
Supertech TC-W3 isn't.
No 2 cycle oil manufacturer says any 2 cycle oil is suitable for cars that have cats.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
As far as I can see, Amsoil 2 cycle oil is not TC-W3 certified, thus not suitable for cars that have cats.
Beats me. I only pay $7.59 and no shipping for a 12 oz PI that is formulated for and proven in gasoline engines to:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:Why would I pay $10.60, plus shipping, etc, for a 12oz bottle of that PI, when I can pay @$12 for the Supertech TC-W3?. For 128ozs.....
• Improves fuel mileage an average of 2.3% and up to 5.7%
• Reduced emissions
— hydrocarbons (HC) up to 15%
— carbon monoxide (CO) up to 26%
— nitrous oxides (NOx) up to 17%
• Restored power and performance
• Reduced need for costly higher octane fuel
• Reduced noise from carbon rap and pre-ignition
• Better drivability
• Smoother operation
Supertech TC-W3 isn't.
Actually, it is very cost effective. It is recommended once every 4,000 miles. 4,000 miles/20mpgX$3/gallon = $600. 2.3% increase in mpg = $13.80 saved in gasoline costs. My cost for PI $7.59. My savings is $6.21. My ROI is 83%.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:The PI is not cost effective. The ROI is horrible.
I pay only $30.36 per 16K miles for PI. And I save $55.2 in gas. And I know it works. ADFD1 and others found they got worse mileage, less performance with the TC-W3 that the 2 cycle oil companies do not recommend. Seems pretty clear to me.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:I can treat 42.6 tanks of gas on the ST. 3oz per tank. 16,800 miles on a gallon of ST.
The equivilent PI, since you use it every 4K miles, is a bit more than $42.40. Not counting shipping.
So I can either pay @$12 every 16-17K miles, or more than $40.
Once again another Amsoil ad. Trajan TCW3 works. If you want a product better than the Amsoil PI get the Red Line product. It is also a UCL and can be used all the time @ 1.5 ounces/10 gallons of gas, if you desire a good cleaner and UCL. A great product from a great company. And their reps won't annoy you or anyone else by constantly pushing on these sites!
BTW Kirk's advise was good too! An example of thinking out of the box.
Got to love that Amsoil math, wow!
Seasons Greetings!
AD
BTW Kirk's advise was good too! An example of thinking out of the box.
Got to love that Amsoil math, wow!
Seasons Greetings!
AD
Any data to prove it?quote:Originally posted by ADFD1: If you want a product better than the Amsoil PI get the Red Line product.
AD
How about it Tim any data to prove the PI is better? Not the B_S Amsoil sales hype, real data.
Once again you took a topic about TCW3 as a fuel system additive [which by the way many people are having great success with it] and turned it into an Amsoil pitch. Don't you realize a lot of guys are getting tired of the pitch? Read between the lines, it might help with your sales!
AD
Once again you took a topic about TCW3 as a fuel system additive [which by the way many people are having great success with it] and turned it into an Amsoil pitch. Don't you realize a lot of guys are getting tired of the pitch? Read between the lines, it might help with your sales!
AD
Here's some data Tim, the same kind of data as yours, from a website:
And the RL product is a UCL too, a synthetic UCL. PI is not a UCL.
http://www.redlineoil.com/cont...-1%20Tech%20Info.pdf
RL has a website and tech data too.
AD
And the RL product is a UCL too, a synthetic UCL. PI is not a UCL.
http://www.redlineoil.com/cont...-1%20Tech%20Info.pdf
RL has a website and tech data too.
AD
The Redline SI-1 is an excellant product. Cheaper than PI too.
Amsoil doesn't make a TC-W3 oil, so I fail to see why Tim says that he wants to talk TC-W3.
Since this thread has fallen into another Amsoil uber alles pitch, I'm out. Like Zmax, use it don't use it, I don't care.
But this Amsoil nonsense has to stop. It isn't number one in anything. Not market share, sales, or use as factory fill.
Amsoil doesn't make a TC-W3 oil, so I fail to see why Tim says that he wants to talk TC-W3.
Since this thread has fallen into another Amsoil uber alles pitch, I'm out. Like Zmax, use it don't use it, I don't care.
But this Amsoil nonsense has to stop. It isn't number one in anything. Not market share, sales, or use as factory fill.
YOU stated the Redline product is better than the AMSOIL PI. YOU provide the proof. The AMSOIL is one treatment every 4,000 miles. Redline recommends you add their cleaner in every tank of gas. Why bother with that?quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
How about it Tim any data to prove the PI is better?
AD
How is Redline SI-1 cheaper than PI, when Redline recommends adding in every tank of gas, and PI is recommended every 4,000 miles. Redline is WAY more expensive.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
The Redline SI-1 is an excellant product. Cheaper than PI too.
Again, not true. AMSOIL is number 1 in market share and sales in the extended oil change interval market. No other company is even close.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:But this Amsoil nonsense has to stop. It isn't number one in anything. Not market share, sales, or use as factory fill.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:YOU stated the Redline product is better than the AMSOIL PI. YOU provide the proof. The AMSOIL is one treatment every 4,000 miles. Redline recommends you add their cleaner in every tank of gas. Why bother with that?quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
How about it Tim any data to prove the PI is better?
AD
I think what AD is saying is that he likes the Redline product better than the Amsoil PI, I agree with him since I have used both products, both AD and I do not have to provide any proof, our observations tell us to give our money to Redline as opposed to lining Tim Vipond's pockets.
I think Redline is recommending a maintenance dose of there product each time you fill up, remember Amsoil PI does not have upper cylinder lubricating properties like the Redline Fuel System Cleaner.
I personally use the Redline product once a year and then use MMO at each fillup for the Upper Cylinder Lubrication.
Tim, your sales pitch is getting old and annoying.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:How is Redline SI-1 cheaper than PI, when Redline recommends adding in every tank of gas, and PI is recommended every 4,000 miles. Redline is WAY more expensive.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
The Redline SI-1 is an excellant product. Cheaper than PI too.Again, not true. AMSOIL is number 1 in market share and sales in the extended oil change interval market. No other company is even close.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:But this Amsoil nonsense has to stop. It isn't number one in anything. Not market share, sales, or use as factory fill.
Give it up Tim, IMO it isn't what's cheaper, its what's better. Where's your proof that PI is better? Waiting, tick tock, tick tock!
Amsoil is champ of extended drain intervals, we aren't discussing that, and its getting old! Who cares? You remind us every chance you get! Hey Tim ask the Toyota owner who blew his engine following the Amsoil interval just what happens. I bet he'll follow the OM for now on! Then he took a junkyard engine for a replacement, he must have been the perfect customer. They got lucky there, trust me if were my ride they'd be swinging a new motor. I'm sure we'll hear more about blown Toyota engines and Amsoil, better hope everyone got those TSBs. I haven't seen or heard of any blown engines using TCW3, which BTW was the topic at hand.
Keep on pushin! You are turning people off in a big way! Looks like Trajan, Bear, and me to mention a few, I'm sure there are more.
FYI Bear there is no need to use the RL product all the time, you can if you want. It will keep your fuel system clean, and has the added benefit of a synthetic UCL. PI doesn't. BTW your method is a great way to maintain a fuel system, stick with it man!
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:How is Redline SI-1 cheaper than PI, when Redline recommends adding in every tank of gas, and PI is recommended every 4,000 miles. Redline is WAY more expensive.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
The Redline SI-1 is an excellant product. Cheaper than PI too.Again, not true. AMSOIL is number 1 in market share and sales in the extended oil change interval market. No other company is even close.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:But this Amsoil nonsense has to stop. It isn't number one in anything. Not market share, sales, or use as factory fill.I never said AMSOIL was better. YOU said Redline is better. YOU made the statement, YOU show the proof. Still waiting....quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:Give it up Tim, IMO it isn't what's cheaper, its what's better. Where's your proof that PI is better? Waiting, tick tock, tick tock!Trajan cared. He asked. I answered.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:Amsoil is champ of extended drain intervals, we aren't discussing that, and its getting old! Who cares? You remind us every chance you get!IIRC, it was the filter that may have failed, not the oil. That guy replaced his engine before he even spoke to AMSOIL. He filed a warranty claim and AMSOIL reimbursed him. He was quite satisfied with that.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1: Hey Tim ask the Toyota owner who blew his engine following the Amsoil interval just what happens. I bet he'll follow the OM for now on! Then he took a junkyard engine for a replacement, he must have been the perfect customer. They got lucky there, trust me if were my ride they'd be swinging a new motor. I'm sure we'll hear more about blown Toyota engines and Amsoil, better hope everyone got those TSBs. I haven't seen or heard of any blown engines using TCW3, which BTW was the topic at hand.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:Keep on pushin! You are turning people off in a big way! Looks like Trajan, Bear, and me to mention a few, I'm sure there are more.
AD
How can answering questions with facts and data turn anyone off? Just because I've challenged some statements, asked for data and provided facts? I thought that was what this forum is about.
Like Trajan says in his signature "Anecdotes are useful for stories and tall tales. To make decisions you need data."
BTW, AMSOIL's and my sales are booming. I have a few new customers from here. Thank you for your concern.
And yet, not a single European auto maker, on a continent where extended OCI is the norm, uses amsoil as a factory fill.
Amsoil is to TC-W3 what a pimple is to a hooker's ass.
Amsoil is to TC-W3 what a pimple is to a hooker's ass.
AMSOIL is made and marketed in the USA. Why would a European auto maker that manufactures, distributes and services world wide use an oil that is mainly only available in the US and Canada?quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
And yet, not a single European auto maker, on a continent where extended OCI is the norm, uses amsoil as a factory fill.
And why do you continually go off topic?
I provided RL data and facts Tim. Looks similar to Amsoil's so called facts. RL is a UCL too, we are talking UCL in this thread aren't we?
You are constantly spouting off every chance you get about how Amsoil is better, read some of the older threads Tim.
Glad business is good, stop turning people off and it will be even better.
AD
You are constantly spouting off every chance you get about how Amsoil is better, read some of the older threads Tim.
Glad business is good, stop turning people off and it will be even better.
AD
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
I provided RL data and facts Tim. Looks similar to Amsoil's so called facts. RL is a UCL too, we are talking UCL in this thread aren't we?
You are constantly spouting off every chance you get about how Amsoil is better, read some of the older threads Tim.
Glad business is good, stop turning people off and it will be even better.
AD
You didn't provide any RL data and facts that supported your statement that Redline is better. If you want to retract that statement, then do so. Otherwise let's see some proof.
Let's get down to brass tacks here.
Tim, you said earlier that you wanted to talk about TC-W3.
Some use the Pennzoil, some use Supertech.
Some use other brands.
What TC-W3 certed 2 cycle oil do you use.
Tim, you said earlier that you wanted to talk about TC-W3.
Some use the Pennzoil, some use Supertech.
Some use other brands.
What TC-W3 certed 2 cycle oil do you use.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
I provided RL data and facts Tim. Looks similar to Amsoil's so called facts. RL is a UCL too, we are talking UCL in this thread aren't we?
You are constantly spouting off every chance you get about how Amsoil is better, read some of the older threads Tim.
Glad business is good, stop turning people off and it will be even better.
AD
You didn't provide any RL data and facts that supported your statement that Redline is better. If you want to retract that statement, then do so. Otherwise let's see some proof.
You're selling the product, prove otherwise. You wanted facts, I showed you RL's facts, prove otherwise. I've used both products I know the better one. Have you used the RL?
Remember I don't sell the stuff you do, so there is no margin in it for me. Why not stay out of these threads pushing Amosil and we won't stray off topic.
If you are looking for bogus 4 ball test results Tim, I don't have any sorry, or who gets whites whiter, none of those tests either. I have what you have, access to web pages, and the smarts to use them to make a decision.
AD
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:AMSOIL is made and marketed in the USA. Why would a European auto maker that manufactures, distributes and services world wide use an oil that is mainly only available in the US and Canada?quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
And yet, not a single European auto maker, on a continent where extended OCI is the norm, uses amsoil as a factory fill.
And why do you continually go off topic?
1: Said Euro cars are also sold here. In large numbers too.
2: Said Euro cars have long OCIs here too.
3: So again? Why isn't it FF for all the BMWs, Audis, Mercedes, RR, Bentleys, Ferarris, MINIs, ad infinitum, sold here?
3a: Do I really have to pull the list of Euro cars that use Mobil 1 as FF?
4: You would do well to keep in mind that it was YOU who took a thread on 2 cycle oil as 4 cycle engine fuel additive and proceeded to push amsoil. Again.
5: Again, what TC-W3 oil are you using in your car/s?
I'll email them Tim if I remember Monday, nice catch. I'm sure the product is even better now. I spoke to Dave their tech guy, about this product at great length. It is a cleaner that can be used once, like PI, Regane, or Techron, or for continued use at 1.5 ounces/10 gallons, and is a UCL too. The customer decides. But you don't believe me so what's the point?
Quick question, you'll know the answer. How many of these message boards were you booted from for plugging Amsoil, or annoying people looking to discuss a topic, shoving Amsoil down their throats? I know of one any others? In fact even the Amsoil guys on that site found you annoying. LOL
AD
Trajan is he annoying you too? This topic was all about 2 Cycle Oil as 4 Cycle Engine Fuel Additive. Then turned to an Amsoil shilling session, and now this. Cool!
Quick question, you'll know the answer. How many of these message boards were you booted from for plugging Amsoil, or annoying people looking to discuss a topic, shoving Amsoil down their throats? I know of one any others? In fact even the Amsoil guys on that site found you annoying. LOL
AD
Trajan is he annoying you too? This topic was all about 2 Cycle Oil as 4 Cycle Engine Fuel Additive. Then turned to an Amsoil shilling session, and now this. Cool!
So you expect them to factory fill and test them in Europe with AMSOIL, when AMSOIL isn't available?quote:Originally posted by Trajan:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:AMSOIL is made and marketed in the USA. Why would a European auto maker that manufactures, distributes and services world wide use an oil that is mainly only available in the US and Canada?quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
And yet, not a single European auto maker, on a continent where extended OCI is the norm, uses amsoil as a factory fill.
And why do you continually go off topic?
1: Said Euro cars are also sold here. In large numbers too.
Yes, and they specify the product specifications which AMSOIL meets if AMSOIL recommends it.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:2: Said Euro cars have long OCIs here too.
So again. See my response to #1.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:3: So again? Why isn't it FF for all the BMWs, Audis, Mercedes, RR, Bentleys, Ferarris, MINIs, ad infinitum, sold here?
Actually I asked why use a two stroke oil that is not recommended by 2 stroke oil and vehicle manufacturers when other products like AMSOIL are specifically made, tested and recommended for that purpose? You keep bringing AMSOIL back into it.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:4: You would do well to keep in mind that it was YOU who took a thread on 2 cycle oil as 4 cycle engine fuel additive and proceeded to push amsoil. Again.
I'm not using any TC-W3 oil in my car. The TC-W3 manufacturers warn against it (as Shell did) and I've never seen auto makers recommend it. It would void your warranty if it was found to be the cause of failure. And the 2 cycle manufacturer wouldn't either. You'd be on your own. Why take the chance?quote:Originally posted by Trajan:5: Again, what TC-W3 oil are you using in your car/s?
Lets think about this:
Tim's remarks to Trajan:
1: Said Euro cars are also sold here. In large numbers too.
So you expect them to factory fill and test them in Europe with AMSOIL, when AMSOIL isn't available?
If the Euro car makers thought Amsoi was so great they'd buy and use it. Amsoil would be very happy to supply it too. They send it over by the boat load. Get real!
Tim's remarks to Trajan:
1: Said Euro cars are also sold here. In large numbers too.
So you expect them to factory fill and test them in Europe with AMSOIL, when AMSOIL isn't available?
If the Euro car makers thought Amsoi was so great they'd buy and use it. Amsoil would be very happy to supply it too. They send it over by the boat load. Get real!
And how would they buy AMSOIL? WalMart tried, and AMSOIL refused. AMSOIL has said they are not going to pay auto companies for them to be put on their approved lists. If AMSOIL was used as a factory fill, the auto manufacturer would be sued by the other companies that paid to be on their lists.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Lets think about this:
Tim's remarks to Trajan:
1: Said Euro cars are also sold here. In large numbers too.
So you expect them to factory fill and test them in Europe with AMSOIL, when AMSOIL isn't available?
If the Euro car makers thought Amsoi was so great they'd buy and use it. Amsoil would be very happy to supply it too. They send it over by the boat load. Get real!
Why don't you stay on topic and tell us more how 2 cycle oil decreased your MPG and performance?
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Lets think about this:
Tim's remarks to Trajan:
1: Said Euro cars are also sold here. In large numbers too.
So you expect them to factory fill and test them in Europe with AMSOIL, when AMSOIL isn't available?
If the Euro car makers thought Amsoi was so great they'd buy and use it. Amsoil would be very happy to supply it too. They send it over by the boat load. Get real!
But first, it has to be tested. Which amsoil would have to pay for. Apparently they can't afford it.
Again Tim. You want, so you claim, to talk about TC-W3.
What brand do you use?
What brand do you use?
I don't use any, just like the TC-W3 and auto companies recommend.quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Again Tim. You want, so you claim, to talk about TC-W3.
What brand do you use?
Then there is no point in you being here, is there.
Oh, BTW:
Unlike four-cycle engines which have a closed crankcase, these lightweight engines use the crankcase as part of the induction tract, and therefore, oil must be mixed with petrol to be distributed throughout the engine for lubrication. The two-stroke oil is ultimately burned along with the fuel resulting in exhaust emissions with blue smoke and/or a distinctive odor.
The oil-base stock is either petroleum, vegetable, semi-synthetic or synthetic oil and is mixed with petrol/gasoline at a fuel-to-oil ratio ranging from 16:1 to as low as 100:1.
Can you point out in my owners manual where it says not to use TC-W3? Or where it says I should use PI?
Can you show a TSB from a auto maker that says I should use PI? I have one that says I can use Techron if I don't use Top Tier fuel.
Oh, BTW:
Unlike four-cycle engines which have a closed crankcase, these lightweight engines use the crankcase as part of the induction tract, and therefore, oil must be mixed with petrol to be distributed throughout the engine for lubrication. The two-stroke oil is ultimately burned along with the fuel resulting in exhaust emissions with blue smoke and/or a distinctive odor.
The oil-base stock is either petroleum, vegetable, semi-synthetic or synthetic oil and is mixed with petrol/gasoline at a fuel-to-oil ratio ranging from 16:1 to as low as 100:1.
Can you point out in my owners manual where it says not to use TC-W3? Or where it says I should use PI?
Can you show a TSB from a auto maker that says I should use PI? I have one that says I can use Techron if I don't use Top Tier fuel.
quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Then there is no point in you being here, is there.
Bingo!
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
Why don't you stay on topic and tell us more how 2 cycle oil decreased your MPG and performance?
Tim I'm very happy to report TCW3 is performing as Sarge has proven time and time again. MMO works very well too. You are totally clueless.
AD
I think we all know that 2 cycle oil is used in 2 cycle engines. What I want to know is do 2 cycle oil companies and auto manufacturers recommend it as a 4 cycle engine fuel additive?quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Then there is no point in you being here, is there.
Oh, BTW:
Unlike four-cycle engines which have a closed crankcase, these lightweight engines use the crankcase as part of the induction tract, and therefore, oil must be mixed with petrol to be distributed throughout the engine for lubrication. The two-stroke oil is ultimately burned along with the fuel resulting in exhaust emissions with blue smoke and/or a distinctive odor.
The oil-base stock is either petroleum, vegetable, semi-synthetic or synthetic oil and is mixed with petrol/gasoline at a fuel-to-oil ratio ranging from 16:1 to as low as 100:1.
Where has he proven it? And if so, why don't the 2 cycle and auto manufacturers recommend it? He says he has a report, but has yet to produce it. You said it decreased your mpg and performance. Which anonymous anecdote should we believe? Why do gasoline companies go to great pains to remove oil from gasoline if it works so well?quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Then there is no point in you being here, is there.
Bingo!
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
Why don't you stay on topic and tell us more how 2 cycle oil decreased your MPG and performance?
Tim I'm very happy to report TCW3 is performing as Sarge has proven time and time again. MMO works very well too. You are totally clueless.
AD
I can't comply, as TC-W3 has not adversely affected my MPG or performance.
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Where has he proven it? And if so, why don't the 2 cycle and auto manufacturers recommend it? He says he has a report, but has yet to produce it. You said it decreased your mpg and performance. Which anonymous anecdote should we believe? Why do gasoline companies go to great pains to remove oil from gasoline if it works so well?quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Then there is no point in you being here, is there.
Bingo!
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
Why don't you stay on topic and tell us more how 2 cycle oil decreased your MPG and performance?
Tim I'm very happy to report TCW3 is performing as Sarge has proven time and time again. MMO works very well too. You are totally clueless.
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Read Tim: "Tim I'm very happy to report TCW3 is performing as Sarge has proven time and time again". Let me try English. "I am happy to report"......... I = me Tim............
Like to play with words like you did with your email to Shell? The email could easily have been understood to mean adding TCW3 to the crankcase. But you hand picked the wording, very calculated to generate the answer you wanted. I already mentioned that though. Oil companies also have to worry about the legal side of their businesses, so they won't suggest TCW3 being added to gas. Think out of the box Tim, it might help you shill more Amsoil. Then go to the LS1 board and let the guys know how you feel about the TCW3 being added to gas, how it reduces mpg, ruins, cats, and anything else you can muster.
Time to go, enjoy the evening guys!
AD
Last thought.
Tim you said this: Where has he proven it? And if so, why don't the 2 cycle and auto manufacturers recommend it?
If everyone listened to the auto manufactures they'd use API certified oil. That would hurt sales of SSO and ASM since Amsoil won't pay for the certs. They just claim it exceeds it.
I didn't say it reduced mpg or performance, you did. Page 1 of this thread.quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:Where has he proven it? And if so, why don't the 2 cycle and auto manufacturers recommend it? He says he has a report, but has yet to produce it. You said it decreased your mpg and performance. Which anonymous anecdote should we believe? Why do gasoline companies go to great pains to remove oil from gasoline if it works so well?quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:quote:Originally posted by Trajan:
Then there is no point in you being here, is there.
Bingo!
quote:Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
Why don't you stay on topic and tell us more how 2 cycle oil decreased your MPG and performance?
Tim I'm very happy to report TCW3 is performing as Sarge has proven time and time again. MMO works very well too. You are totally clueless.
AD
Read Tim: "Tim I'm very happy to report TCW3 is performing as Sarge has proven time and time again". Let me try English. "I am happy to report"......... I = me Tim............
Like to play with words like you did with your email to Shell? The email could easily have been understood to mean adding TCW3 to the crankcase. But you hand picked the wording, very calculated to generate the answer you wanted. I already mentioned that though. Oil companies also have to worry about the legal side of their businesses, so they won't suggest TCW3 being added to gas. Think out of the box Tim, it might help you shill more Amsoil. Then go to the LS1 board and let the guys know how you feel about the TCW3 being added to gas, how it reduces mpg, ruins, cats, and anything else you can muster.
Time to go, enjoy the evening guys!
AD
In my email to Shell, I posted the thread where it was discussed using Shell's TC-W3. They had all the info. They made the call. Against their own 2 cycle oil. Let's see...what were their exact words again?
"From: pqsandcarcaretechnical-us@shell.com
Subject: Re: Pennzoil Synthetic Marine Full Synthetic 2 cycle oil in 4 cycle engines.
Date: December 13, 2010 8:34:45 AM CST
To: timvipond@comcast.net
Dear Consumer,
No matter what other people say. Do not use 2 cycle engine oil in a
4 cycle motor. You will cause major damage to your engine.
Regards,
Technical Service, sn"
quote:Originally posted by ADFD1:
Last thought.
Tim you said this: Where has he proven it? And if so, why don't the 2 cycle and auto manufacturers recommend it?
If everyone listened to the auto manufactures they'd use API certified oil. That would hurt sales of SSO and ASM since Amsoil won't pay for the certs. They just claim it exceeds it.
None of the auto manufacturers state that it is required to use API certified oil for vehicles in the US. AMSOIL has 8 API certified oils for those who feel that is important. Several API certified oils failed API certification tests when pulled from the shelf. None have ever been AMSOIL. Plus AMSOIL warranties their oil for all lubricated parts and labor should their oil ever fail (it never has). Nor has it ever voided a factory warranty, even with extended oil change intervals.
