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Most threads on this board become an Amsoil selling platform with a links to some Amsoil Sales Data which looks more to me like Amsoil hype. Sarge it seems in your LS1 thread it was the less expensive TCW3 oils that netted some pretty impressive results for many members. Simple, been around forever, easily available at Wally-Mart TCW3, and most importantly cheap which you mentioned several times IIRC. I see no reason to use the expensive Amsoil product, and then have to pay a $20 fee for the right to buy it for a little less. TCW3 works, you've proven it, why did this thread like so many others turn into an Amsoil sales pitch? Am I the only member that sees it?

When you come down to it Sarge you're an anonymous poster too, clearly though not trying to sell anything. I have more respect for data you post than from some salesman linking to product he sells, who BTW was launched for his sales tactics from at least one other site, possibly more. It appears others agreed and got tired of it too!

I wish this topic could stay on topic, about TCW3 as a 4 cycle engine fuel add, and not another Amsoil sales platform. That's getting old, real fast.

AD
Oh And Tim...I see you utilize feedback and not just "test results" in your desire to share data also. Just so I am clear....are these private individuals API certified super duper lab certified documented geeks? Or are they just folks who shared their experience and you utilize their testimony? LOL. Asmoil lives off of personal private indivdual testimony. Why do you attack folks when they share the same thing?
Oh well....I did not sign up here just to jib jab with you. Actually I like the maturity most members here show versus other oil forums that seem to have died and gone to ricer forum hell.


[quote=Tim Vipond]Sure. Ask any of the thousands of Texas State Troopers that have run AMSOIL for 20,000 severe mile oil and filter changes in thousands of patrol cars over the past 10 years.

Or ask Haywood Gray: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1343.pdf

Or John Small with Sears: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1009.pdf

Or Brian Johnson with Nordic Waste: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2695.pdf

Or Jason Wick: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2244.pdf

And of course, JD Green in post #5 above.[/quote]
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:
Oh And Tim...I see you utilize feedback and not just "test results" in your desire to share data also. Just so I am clear....are these private individuals API certified super duper lab certified documented geeks? Or are they just folks who shared their experience and you utilize their testimony? LOL. Asmoil lives off of personal private indivdual testimony. Why do you attack folks when they share the same thing?
Oh well....I did not sign up here just to jib jab with you. Actually I like the maturity most members here show versus other oil forums that seem to have died and gone to ricer forum hell.


[quote=Tim Vipond]Sure. Ask any of the thousands of Texas State Troopers that have run AMSOIL for 20,000 severe mile oil and filter changes in thousands of patrol cars over the past 10 years.

Or ask Haywood Gray: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1343.pdf

Or John Small with Sears: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1009.pdf

Or Brian Johnson with Nordic Waste: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2695.pdf

Or Jason Wick: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2244.pdf

And of course, JD Green in post #5 above.
[/QUOTE]

I was asked for personal testimonies, so I supplied them. Real people with real data. Easily verified.

As a retired scientist, I prefer published data. No one has disputed and proven AMSOIL's data incorrect in 38 years.

Could you provide the data for your test results? Seems you ought to get them published in a trade magazine so they can be scrutinized and verified. Then we all win.

Also, if adding 2 cycle oil to a 4 cycle engine is so great, why aren't all the major 2 cycle oil manufacturers recommending it? They have the test facilities, have research scientists, have test vehicles, have test protocols, etc. They would make lots of extra money, yet don't make this recommendation. Hmmm.......

And AD, no one is required to pay $20 to buy AMSOIL products. I give free wholesale pricing for anyone with a qualified business. No $20 fee when you purchase AMSOIL products at stores. But you knew that.
Last edited by timvipond
I don't have a business Tim, and have no desire to buy Amsoil, my father used it, we'll pass. The last time I saw Amsoil in a store on Whidbey Island, WA it was covered with dust, the price was way to high. Check out Bitog they mention Amsoil covered with dust in the stores, even Pablo acknowledged that IIRC I'll have to check the tread out.

I also get the feeling that you think the people who tested TCW3 that Sarge mentioned had no results because it is only their testimony given. Maybe you should get on the LS1 board and tell them.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:
Oh And Tim...I see you utilize feedback and not just "test results" in your desire to share data also. Just so I am clear....are these private individuals API certified super duper lab certified documented geeks? Or are they just folks who shared their experience and you utilize their testimony? LOL. Asmoil lives off of personal private indivdual testimony. Why do you attack folks when they share the same thing?
Oh well....I did not sign up here just to jib jab with you. Actually I like the maturity most members here show versus other oil forums that seem to have died and gone to ricer forum hell.


[quote=Tim Vipond]Sure. Ask any of the thousands of Texas State Troopers that have run AMSOIL for 20,000 severe mile oil and filter changes in thousands of patrol cars over the past 10 years.

Or ask Haywood Gray: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1343.pdf

Or John Small with Sears: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1009.pdf

Or Brian Johnson with Nordic Waste: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2695.pdf

Or Jason Wick: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2244.pdf

And of course, JD Green in post #5 above.


I was asked for personal testimonies, so I supplied them. Real people with real data. Easily verified.

As a retired scientist, I prefer published data. No one has disputed and proven AMSOIL's data incorrect in 38 years.

Could you provide the data for your test results? Seems you ought to get them published in a trade magazine so they can be scrutinized and verified. Then we all win.

Also, if adding 2 cycle oil to a 4 cycle engine is so great, why aren't all the major 2 cycle oil manufacturers recommending it? They have the test facilities, have research scientists, have test vehicles, have test protocols, etc. They would make lots of extra money, yet don't make this recommendation. Hmmm.......

And AD, no one is required to pay $20 to buy AMSOIL products. I give free wholesale pricing for anyone with a qualified business. No $20 fee when you purchase AMSOIL products at stores. But you knew that.[/QUOTE]
------------------------------------------
This is funny. You want me to publish a technical paper and your supplied personal quotes are somehow superior? Did you read my very first post here? I just organize the "project" and track the input from regular Joe's.
Why don't manufactures make solid walnut dashboards versus plastic? HHHmmmmmmm. I mean walnut is better isn't it?HHHmmmmmm.
I have been in technology for over 40 years. I know "scientist" who cannot blow their nose and I know "scientist who are brilliant. So what? Am I supposed to wither in your presence because you tell me your a scientist? Heck fire Tim....and I repeat....we ( the people whom participate in these little projects of mine) are just compiling data. All data is personal observation. And if you did not know...personal observation is where the rubber meets the road for us regular guys. Not some marketing "data"....and I see you use personal input yourself quite often. Then attack others for doing the exact same thing. Did you learn that trick in science school? LOL......have your Texas Highway Patrol guys publish their tech papers there big boy...take your own advise.
I see you have been banned in many forums for your trollish behaviour pumping Amsoil.
I am very plugged into the Texas Highway Patrol Regional office here in South Texas. They use bulk Valvoline. I guess they did not get your memo.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
I don't have a business Tim, and have no desire to buy Amsoil, my father used it, we'll pass. The last time I saw Amsoil in a store on Whidbey Island, WA it was covered with dust, the price was way to high. Check out Bitog they mention Amsoil covered with dust in the stores, even Pablo acknowledged that IIRC I'll have to check the tread out.

I also get the feeling that you think the people who tested TCW3 that Sarge mentioned had no results because it is only their testimony given. Maybe you should get on the LS1 board and tell them.

AD

Oh goodness...he doesn't want to do that. Those are gearheads. They will eat him alive. CompSyn does a good job there. Offers advise across all oil manufacturers platforms. People respect that. I retired as the Super Mod there. So I cannot protect him Smile
If I had a bug problem some Amsoil "Jobbers" will tell me to spray them with 0-30 Amsoil cuz it's the best. Is this just an Amsoil marketing site?
And you forget Tim.
I have no dog in the hunt. I am not advocating putting anything in your fuel. You are. I am not. And you look sorta silly summarily dismissing 500K folks (last post count on the subject using Web Trends tools) post on the subject. Because they have not paid SWRI or somebody to verify their personal observations.
I see we are all up early and I have to go feed the cattle. But it is fun anyway and I humbly drop out of this as I have been a mod on a major forum and I realize we have digressed here. I apologize to the moderators here and will drop the subject as it obviously is not answering the OP's original subject matter.
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:
Is this just an Amsoil marketing site?


I sure hope not, maybe he has a deal with the mods, if so their house their rules. If not I wish they'd muzzle him so we could stay on topic!

I'm interested in your MMO feedback and results from the guys you have testing it. My family used it for decades with great results in both oil and gas. So did my buddy in NY. But they aren't scientists so Tim would rule them out, LOL.

Maybe you can post a link to this on the LS1 site if it is allowed and let them see what the Amsoil rep thinks of their findings.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:
Is this just an Amsoil marketing site?


I sure hope not, maybe he has a deal with the mods, if so their house their rules. If not I wish they'd muzzle him so we could stay on topic!

I'm interested in your MMO feedback and results from the guys you have testing it. My family used it for decades with great results in both oil and gas. So did my buddy in NY. But they aren't scientists so Tim would rule them out, LOL.

Maybe you can post a link to this on the LS1 site if it is allowed and let them see what the Amsoil rep thinks of their findings.

AD

No....that would just create a troll forum war and I will not do this to this site. CompSyn does a great job representing Amsoil and oil in general there. Tim...I see your TDPS Troopers and raise you Richard Childress Racing Smile
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...=2090548#Post2090548
Sarge did the research, the results posted on the LS1 forum speak volumes. Why not join the LS1 forum and ask? Lots of people there can give you answers, and you can explain to each and everyone of them why you feel they are wrong. Go for it! Oh wait they already have an Amsoil rep with some class, they'd probably run you off, nothing to gain there, sorry!

AD
What makes you think I feel they are wrong? They can do whatever they please. I'd just like to see scientific proof that it works and won't damage anything or decrease performance long term. Again, why don't the 2 cycle oil, gasoline and vehicle companies back this idea? Why doesn't the EPA back this idea? What do they know that you don't? Still waiting...again....
Ask them Tim. I know plenty of people doing it with either MMO or TCW3 for decades, and it works. You don't believe me, so go to the LS1 board and ask for yourself, mention the EPA while you're at it. Just because the EPA doesn't back it means nothing to me, and many others.

There are things the FDA approves and later it is found certain products they approved have killed people. Just look at the negative side effects many approved meds have..........Many smart people think out of the box Tim, and experiment with some pretty impressive results. Sarge proved it, you just can't accept it, go on LS1 and tell'em all they're wrong, or they don't have the EPA blessings.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
Ask them Tim.
I have. Since Sarge is recommending a Shell product, I have contacted them by email for info.
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1: I know plenty of people doing it with either MMO or TCW3 for decades, and it works.
Again you flip/flop. Earlier you said "I recently tried TC-W3 and for some reason like the MMO better in the gas. The engine seems to run well with either, but I have given up slight mpgs with the TC-W3. I also noticed that if you give too big a dose of TC-W3 the engine lacks some power, where as you would have to go hog wild with the MMO. Just my observations, YMMV."
Flip flop, you call that? Get real! Those are my observations. Further testing is needed for me with the TCW3. At least I have an open mind and I am willing to try and experiment, it is quite clear I am not here to sell as you are! My experiences are real, not made up in some lab to sell product.

In my case maybe less TCW3 is needed, maybe more, or maybe in my situation MMO is better. My NY buddy who I mention a lot noticed TCW3 reduced oil consumption, when added to the gas, something MMO didn't do for him, and he's been using MMO for close to 40 years I think.

Oh yea and Sarge mentioned 300 people testing MMO gas and oil IIRC. That caught me attention.

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
So you still haven't answered the very basic question why the 2 cycle oil companies aren't recommending this. Not to mention the gasoline and automotive companies. What do they know that you don't? Billions of dollars on research and testing? Still waiting....

Are you kidding me? Why dont folks that grow watermelons advertise you can put vodka in them and get faced? Come on Tim...get real. Are you waiting for some common sense? I sure hope your wait is not much longer. This is getting painful man. All the reloaders I know put NuFinish in their tumblers to shine the brass. I mean all of them. It is on every reloaders forum. Why doesnt NuFinish advertise that fact?
Probably because they have XXX amount of marketing dollars and they (gee call me silly) go after their target market and not every fringe benefit others have found for their product. I'm just taking a wild guess here Tim.....Lord help us!
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
What makes you think I feel they are wrong? They can do whatever they please. I'd just like to see scientific proof that it works and won't damage anything or decrease performance long term. Again, why don't the 2 cycle oil, gasoline and vehicle companies back this idea? Why doesn't the EPA back this idea? What do they know that you don't? Still waiting...again....

Show me where the EPA back using Amsoil PI Tim.
Show you where it doesnt hurt anything long term? You gotta be absolutely high Tim. I think the TCW3 has been tested more miles by more people than any other product I ever heard of! And (God forbid) they actually are sharing their experiance all over the internet for the past 2-3 years!
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
Sarge hasn't posted on his LS1 2 cycle oil thread since Feb. People are asking him questions and he isn't responding. What's up with that?

For the reading and comprehension impaired I say again. I retired from there Tim. I pretty much retired from the INTERNET for this very reason. Just so much BS and silliness it is just painful.
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
So you still haven't answered the very basic question why the 2 cycle oil companies aren't recommending this. Not to mention the gasoline and automotive companies. What do they know that you don't? Billions of dollars on research and testing? Still waiting....

Are you kidding me? Why dont folks that grow watermelons advertise you can put vodka in them and get faced? Come on Tim...get real. Are you waiting for some common sense? I sure hope your wait is not much longer. This is getting painful man. All the reloaders I know put NuFinish in their tumblers to shine the brass. I mean all of them. It is on every reloaders forum. Why doesnt NuFinish advertise that fact?
Probably because they have XXX amount of marketing dollars and they (gee call me silly) go after their target market and not every fringe benefit others have found for their product. I'm just taking a wild guess here Tim.....Lord help us!


I used to load for a 22.250, 6.5x284 7WSM, and 30-338 Lapua, to name a few. I haven't done it in a while Frown. I read about NuFinish, never tried it. I did use Bon-Ami [sp] it worked good in the tumbler with the media. I'll have to remember the NuFinish next time I'm home.

Back on topic, it pays to think out of the box! Many good things have come from it! You mentioned some good examples!

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:

Show me where the EPA back using Amsoil PI Tim.
Some of you sure are fickle. First you don't want me to talk about AMSOIL, then that is all you want to talk about and ask me questions.

From http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2543.pdf

"The fleet of test vehicles was put on a rolling chassis
dynamometer before and after P.i. treatment, measuring
each vehicle’s fuel economy numbers according to the
same method mandated by the federal government
and used by auto manufacturers to determine vehicle
fuel economy ratings. The blue bars on Graph E
indicate pre-treatment fuel economy numbers. The
red bars indicate fuel economy following one tank of
operation on P.i., showing an average fuel economy
improvement of more than 2 percent."

Don't you think the Federal Government or FTC or anyone would cry foul if this data was incorrect? They haven't.

Or their environmental claims of reducing vehicle emissions?
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:

Show me where the EPA back using Amsoil PI Tim.
Some of you sure are fickle. First you don't want me to talk about AMSOIL, then that is all you want to talk about and ask me questions.

From http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2543.pdf

"The fleet of test vehicles was put on a rolling chassis
dynamometer before and after P.i. treatment, measuring
each vehicle’s fuel economy numbers according to the
same method mandated by the federal government
and used by auto manufacturers to determine vehicle
fuel economy ratings. The blue bars on Graph E
indicate pre-treatment fuel economy numbers. The
red bars indicate fuel economy following one tank of
operation on P.i., showing an average fuel economy
improvement of more than 2 percent."

Don't you think the Federal Government or FTC or anyone would cry foul if this data was incorrect? They haven't.

Or their environmental claims of reducing vehicle emissions?

That's it? We haven't been sued so it must be true? My God...you are insane.
You know Tim....I have known guys like you in life. Everybody knows them as a fool. However in their mind they are brilliant. Your constant babble about Amsoil's silly ass marketing all over the INTERNET on every car forum....pimping yourself shamelessly....well I guess it is funny as hell you think you have any type of credibility anywhere with anybody.
You think of yourself as quite sly by asking for ridiculous "certified testing" over a simple fuel add that has been around for 50+years. Guys have been using 2stroke oil in their fuel long before I showed up.I am selling nothing. Your agenda is clear (your profit) and why this forum puts up with your silly painful post is beyond me.... but it isn't my forum.
I'll say again.....I document folks experience as they share it with me. Period. That is the end of it. Take with it what you wish. I could care less.I have no agenda and have nothing to prove to some silly Amsoil "Jobber" from Houston for sure.
Maybe Pablo or CompSyn can share with you how much damage you Amsoil dealers do to Amsoil Corp. on these forums with your silly Amsoil sponsored 4ball test et al.
So the kabillion post in numerous forums reflecting personal non -paid testimony must be true because the Feds havent sued anybody for saying TCW3 in their fuel had benefits. Using your own rational Tim.
Last edited by sarge
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
So you still haven't answered the very basic question why the 2 cycle oil companies aren't recommending this. Not to mention the gasoline and automotive companies. What do they know that you don't? Billions of dollars on research and testing? Still waiting....

Are you kidding me? Why dont folks that grow watermelons advertise you can put vodka in them and get faced? Come on Tim...get real. Are you waiting for some common sense? I sure hope your wait is not much longer. This is getting painful man. All the reloaders I know put NuFinish in their tumblers to shine the brass. I mean all of them. It is on every reloaders forum. Why doesnt NuFinish advertise that fact?
Probably because they have XXX amount of marketing dollars and they (gee call me silly) go after their target market and not every fringe benefit others have found for their product. I'm just taking a wild guess here Tim.....Lord help us!


I used to load for a 22.250, 6.5x284 7WSM, and 30-338 Lapua, to name a few. I haven't done it in a while Frown. I read about NuFinish, never tried it. I did use Bon-Ami [sp] it worked good in the tumbler with the media. I'll have to remember the NuFinish next time I'm home.

Back on topic, it pays to think out of the box! Many good things have come from it! You mentioned some good examples!

AD

I am of the old used dryer sheet/tablespoon of NuFinish and crushed walnut type of guy myself Smile
I reload dad gum near every caliber of rifle and handgun. And shotgun also. I shoot a bunchSmile
Now shotgun, I shot a lot of that too, mostly trap on Eastern Long Island. I never reloaded them though.

AD

PS MMO claims on the label says: Improves Fuel Economy". They have been in business close to 85 years give or take. No problems I'm aware of making that claim, "Cleans Engines From The Inside Out", i think that's on the label too. No problems with that claim either. The nice thing about TCW3 and MMO is there are no company shills pushing it on these boards. Just honest testimony, and a lot of it too!

AD
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:
I pretty much retired from the INTERNET for this very reason. Just so much BS and silliness it is just painful.
So why are you here again? Oh yeah, to provide us the useful data you've collected from anonymous posters with anecdotes which some say two stroke oil is good for 4 stroke engines and others say they saw no difference, and others like AD say they lost mpg and performance, and others worried about long term damage. Two stroke oil companies aren't supporting any of your statements. They'd be run out of town if they followed your example.
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:

Show me where the EPA back using Amsoil PI Tim.
Some of you sure are fickle. First you don't want me to talk about AMSOIL, then that is all you want to talk about and ask me questions.

From http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2543.pdf

"The fleet of test vehicles was put on a rolling chassis
dynamometer before and after P.i. treatment, measuring
each vehicle’s fuel economy numbers according to the
same method mandated by the federal government
and used by auto manufacturers to determine vehicle
fuel economy ratings. The blue bars on Graph E
indicate pre-treatment fuel economy numbers. The
red bars indicate fuel economy following one tank of
operation on P.i., showing an average fuel economy
improvement of more than 2 percent."

Don't you think the Federal Government or FTC or anyone would cry foul if this data was incorrect? They haven't.

Or their environmental claims of reducing vehicle emissions?

That's it? We haven't been sued so it must be true? .

The oil industry and government does a pretty good job keeping oil company claims in check.
Exxon took Castrol to task over their definition of synthetic oil.
Castrol took Royal Purple to task over their testimonials they tried to pass on as fact. They forced Royal Purple to correct their "information" on their website.
Castrol and Valvoline took Exxon to task over Mobil 1 failure to pass wear tests that Exxon claimed they met.
FTC took many of those gasoline saving devices to task and took them off the market.
FTC took ZMAX to task and had them change some of their claims and set up a consumer refund account.
No two stroke oil manufacture has made the claims you make as they know they couldn't prove them.

If you are so certain that 2 stroke oil works marvels and miracles in 4 stroke engines, why don't you market it? Maybe because you know deep down you wouldn't be able to prove it?
Last edited by timvipond
quote:
Originally posted by ADFD1:

PS MMO claims on the label says: Improves Fuel Economy". They have been in business close to 85 years give or take. No problems I'm aware of making that claim, "Cleans Engines From The Inside Out", i think that's on the label too. No problems with that claim either.

AD


Didn't Marvel go out of business about 10 years ago? Hmmm....

Are you a company shill for MMO? Doesn't your anonymous dad and uncle push it and sell it at their anonymous auto shop? Seems like you bring it up repeatedly in every thread. Any test data you would like to share? Or is it just anonymous anecdotes...
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:
I pretty much retired from the INTERNET for this very reason. Just so much BS and silliness it is just painful.
So why are you here again? Oh yeah, to provide us the useful data you've collected from anonymous posters with anecdotes which some say two stroke oil is good for 4 stroke engines and others say they saw no difference, and others like AD say they lost mpg and performance, and others worried about long term damage. Two stroke oil companies aren't supporting any of your statements. They'd be run out of town if they followed your example.

I am here at the invitation of one of the founding members Tim. And you? Oh I see....you wish to spam/troll every forum you can sign up with to sell your Mary Kay...erg...ugh...I mean Amsoil.
You just struggle with this don't you? Here let me break it down to "scientist" level.

You= Marketing/Sales of a Multi Level Marketing Scheme product for your profit.
Me= Providing a discussion among a wide audience, across the globe, to comment on various additives or products that relate to the automotive hobby.

Why should I need to "prove" anything Tim? I don't! We are discussing it not selling it. You are selling and I am not.

Should I use stick people diagrams?
Tim,
Allow me to approach this form a different angle.
Amsoil has been in business since what? 1959 or something. In this 50 years they have captured less than 1% of the global sales of the engine oil market. If it was so good why such a small market share? If it was so good why wouldn't the automotive manufacturers all use it? Amsoil has spent significant resources polishing the pig with all kinds of 4ball wear test and paid "test" showing they are the best of the best. Mobil1 has 60%+ of the market. They just laugh at Amsoil and make no attempt to even acknowledge Amsoil exist. Same with SOPUS.

In the fast lube market here in the US. Amsoil has a 4% share and Mobil1 has their 60% again.
But lets look at the top seller in these fast oil change joints. It is additives Tim. This is why I even took on the effort to have this "additive" discussed among those who are making buying decisions. If I can get the same results (real or imagined) with something that cost pennies per application versus an application that cost $20 bucks....then it is worth discussing. So I did. I also have discussed on the WWW nitrogen in your tires, high flow air filters, magic spark plugs on and on and all kinds of oil discussions and marketing hype versus real world results. Royal Purple took a beating in these marketing versus real world results discussions. Amsoil did very well. I have led return on investment discussions as ROI pertains to various oil products and additives.

The TCW3 discussion is no different Tim. Nobody selling anything. Just discussion. Nobody gives a rats butt about any marketing test. We are discussing the usage and individual observations of the usage of TCW3 in their fuel.

Hopefully you can see how far off the mark you are by your position here. We are not selling anything (unlike you)...so we have no desire nor requirement to test anything nor provide data to any knucklehead. We are discussing individual observations. Good or bad. We discuss it. Many have posted compression test....some share before and after state exhaust test data when they got their car inspected....stuff like that....and it is all out there on the WWW.
Get it Tim?
http://www.amsoil.com/news/200..._fastlube_market.pdf
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
Christ, Tim sounds more and more like a synlube pusher.......

I can see why Sarge all but completely retired from the internet. All this crap over a product he doesn't sell.

And I'm really tired of hearing how their sales are at record levels, or how they're #1, etc.

Let's see the proof.


Sickening isn't it Trajan? I wish they'd muzzle him so we could stay on topic, and not have to deal with his constant rebuttals and Amsoil pushing. I could see why Sarge would want to retire from the Internet, its this Kind of grind that can get old real fast. Hang in there Sarge, Tim is losing in the popularity poles.

Tim- FYI Turtle Wax bought the MMO company, the product is alive and well, No problems with the FTC or the EPA either. No payouts for blown engines either.

AD

PS Marvel Mystery Oil Company was formed in 1923. Initially based in Chicago, the company moved to New York City and then in 1941 moved to its long-time home in Port Chester, New York. In 1999, the Marvel Oil Company was acquired by Turtle Wax, Inc. and is now headquartered back in its hometown in the Chicago area.
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:
Tim,
Allow me to approach this form a different angle.
Amsoil has been in business since what? 1959 or something.
Since you insist again on going off topic to talk about AMSOIL, it look's like you need a lesson in AMSOIL history: "Amatuzio began conducting serious research in 1963. By 1966 he had formulated a synthetic motor oil and put it to use in vehicles in northern Minnesota. Throughout the late ’60s Amatuzio continued his research and development and sold commercially available synthetic oils under a variety of names. In 1970 he incorporated his own name into a commercially sold product called AMMOIL. In 1971 this product name was changed to AMZOIL and it continued to be sold commercially. The true milestone came in 1972 when AMZOIL became the first synthetic motor oil in the world to meet American Petroleum Institute criteria. The new lubricant performed like no other before it. When the first can appeared on the market in 1972, it signaled the birth of an entire industry. AMSOIL synthetic lubricants have expanded the boundaries of lubrication science and redefined the performance possibilities of modern machinery and engines."
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge: In this 50 years they have captured less than 1% of the global sales of the engine oil market. If it was so good why such a small market share?
AMSOIL doesn't compete globally. Just US and Canada with a few outlets worldwide. And only in the synthetic oil market which is about 10% of all oil sales in the US. And in the extended oil change market, which is about 10% of that, AMSOIL has far more of that share, about 80%, than Mobil 1 EP and Castrol Edge. AMSOIL refuses to sell to WalMart and the other huge retailers to support their AMSOIL dealers.
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge: They If it was so good why wouldn't the automotive manufacturers all use it?
AMSOIL is a US company and made here. Most automotive manufacturers have world wide manufacturing and distribution. Why would they want to use it if it is not available to them and their worldwide customers? Auto manufactures tend to use the lowest cost oil that meets their specs that gets them past the warranty period. And many have their own oil brands they push. Why pay more dollars for the best oil, when a midlevel oil accomplishes all of this for them? And NONE of them say you can't upgrade to AMSOIL or that it will void factory warranty, even with extended oil change intervals.
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge: Amsoil has spent significant resources polishing the pig with all kinds of 4ball wear test and paid "test" showing they are the best of the best.
Yep. And undisputed by the industry. The 4 ball test is a widely accepted ASTM test. All oil manufacturers use it. Only AMSOIL publishes the test results. None of the competition disputes AMSOIL's test data.
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge: yet only have a fraction Mobil1 has 60%+ of the market.
Mobil 1 only has 10% of the extended oil change interval market. AMSOIL has 80%.
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge: They just laugh at Amsoil and make no attempt to even acknowledge Amsoil exist. Same with SOPUS.
Where have they laughed? I found 8 results on AMSOIL on the Mobil1 website. Seems like a lot of acknowledgment. Why do they copy AMSOIL in these firsts? Seems Exxon must admire AMSOIL's accomplishments a lot to try to copy them (sincerest form of flattery). In fact Mobil told Amatuzio he should feel honored that they copied him when Mobil came out with Mobil 1 25,000 mile oil a few years after AMSOIL :

The Company of Firsts
AMSOIL has a documented history of innovation and leadership.

First to develop an API-rated 100 percent synthetic motor oil.
First to introduce the concept of "extended drain intervals" with a recommended 25,000-mile/1-year drain interval.
First U.S. company to utilize the NOACK volatility test as a standard of performance excellence.
First to produce synthetic motor oils for diesel engines, racing engines, turbo and marine engines.
First to introduce synthetic oils that legitimately contribute to improving fuel efficiency.
First to manufacture synthetic gear lube for automotive use.
First to manufacture a 100:1 pre-mix synthetic 2-cycle oil.
First to manufacture a synthetic automatic transmission fluid for automotive use.
Last edited by timvipond
I defer to the forum here. I tried to keep the subject matter to TallPauls original subject matter....but no...we all have to be trolled by Tim The Amsoil Nazi. "Where is the data on TCW3" "Here is the history of Amsoil" "Here is all the polished pig Amsoil marketing links"
Just unreal. Tim it does not work man.
I am heading to my place in Grand Cayman Tim. I'll check back with you from there. My ranch is just outside of Boerne. Your close. You should really stop by and see our operation here. I have one of the top Amsoil "Jobbers" here who is a good friend and very succesful engine builder. I also have a good friend who is a Shaefeers distributor. We all get along just fine and have some very good discussions on oil and such. You should join one of our "feed store and coffee" discussions. I am truly amazed at your post and must met you to see for myself.
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:
I got tired of talking with you Tim so I went and had an intelligent discussion with one of my steers.
Unbelievable from a grown man. Just unreal.
I defer to the forum here. I tried to keep the subject matter to TallPauls original subject matter....but no...we all have to be trolled by Tim The Amsoil Nazi. "Where is the data on TCW3" "Here is the history of Amsoil" "Here is all the polished pig Amsoil marketing links"
Just unreal.
I just wanted to discuss TCW3. It was you and others who kept bringing up and asking about AMSOIL. I was just answering your questions. You don't seem very interested in discussing TCW3. Why is that?

You said "All I can say is we have documented well over 6 million miles in our volunteers automobiles since I began this experiment.
To date not one negative. So many postives from quiter fuel pumps to MPG increases to quieter valve assembly.
I do not defend nor sale anything. I just set it up and documented all of it."

So let's see your documentation...
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Vipond:
quote:
Originally posted by Sarge:
I got tired of talking with you Tim so I went and had an intelligent discussion with one of my steers.
Unbelievable from a grown man. Just unreal.
I defer to the forum here. I tried to keep the subject matter to TallPauls original subject matter....but no...we all have to be trolled by Tim The Amsoil Nazi. "Where is the data on TCW3" "Here is the history of Amsoil" "Here is all the polished pig Amsoil marketing links"
Just unreal.
I just wanted to discuss TCW3. It was you and others who kept bringing up and asking about AMSOIL. I was just answering your questions. You don't seem very interested in discussing TCW3. Why is that?

You said "All I can say is we have documented well over 6 million miles in our volunteers automobiles since I began this experiment.
To date not one negative. So many postives from quiter fuel pumps to MPG increases to quieter valve assembly.
I do not defend nor sale anything. I just set it up and documented all of it."

So let's see your documentation...

It is all posted on the WWW. Have fun!

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