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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

I just noticed 9 ignored posts by Trajen/nuke..........all not worth reading or opening/showing.........because that one poster(trajen/nuke are the same)......always divert away from the actual facts and now flood this thread with whatever "trash talk" he is spewing again to serve is crazy agenda!!

He Must be a big oil straw boss/shill/troll!!!!

So why listen ever again to this 'character' due to the obvious political agenda he is trying to serve or push!


To spew distorted information!!!!


All I ever post/ed are the real scientific facts!

What/who do you want to believe??

The Facts without spin(what I have shown already)....or a straw man argument(Trajen/Nuke),with all kinds of spin!!

You be the Judge!

Kirk
Ahh, I'd let it go. His own links don't back up his claims.

Not much more we can do. Deltona's info hasn't been refuted. The auto makers don't blame the oil for the sludge problems. The customers haven't blamed the oil companies.

His own links show he's been on the wrong track.

Have a sludge prone engine? Change the oil/filter more often. The "severe service" schedule. (Not everyone does the filter. I just figure, what's another $10-$15 on top of 7qts?).

Use mfg approved oil. If not, at least API certed oil.

There is no miracle oil. No magic fix.
Last edited by trajan
This is off the net....shows oil is a fault for causing sludge.


Most common cause of sludge problem

As complex as the issue of sludge formation is, the most common cause of the sludge problem is the oil itself.
More exactly it is the use of either substandard oil like API SA or just using even the top quality oil for just too long.
As "obvious" as this may be, it is not surprising that general motoring public is not aware of either of these two problems.
Even if your "Owner's Manual" recommends top API or ILSAC quality motor oil, there is not any assurance that the local cut rate "quick oil change" outlet actually will use it in your vehicle, more often than not they will use deeply discounted "surplus" bulk oil whose quality is either substandard or as bad as API SA !
The second most common reason is just running way too long on the motor oil for the given type of service.
Another not too often disclosed fact is that during the ILSAC or API engine tests on motor oils, the oil life is measured in HOURS, and yet only very few vehicles sold anywhere in the world have ENGINE HOUR RUN meters.
The normal motor oil recommended service frequency is specified in miles or kilometers, but the motor oil life is in hours of service.
I remember way back........someone wanted to know why big oil was not sued......think again......this tells a different story.

The oil in question is a group III.......not the true synthetic group IV/V.

The oil filter was also blamed. That's why I use only depth filters with the backing support screen,or the new Bosch Distance depth filter. In either case, a group three oil can sludge and then block the filter putting the blame on the filter when the oil was at fault all along.

This would not have happened with a 100% PAO/GROUP IV/V OIL. No sludge,and no blocked filters....period! Just a super clean engine.

This engine below wasn't so lucky with the group III oil. The opposite of super clean!!


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1653077


This is the very famous BG product addressing sludge issues and mentions oil quality as an issue.

http://www.bgprod.com/blendr/sludgeKills.html
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
I used to be in the habit of using quick lube outlets and using a synthetic oil from the hose. Since reading some of these threads, I take my own oil or purchase a quality synthetic from a bottle, not a barrel.


inHaliburton,

That's the smartest thing I've heard in a while!! I am glad you've been reading,and you won't be sorry. Playing it safe/smart is always a good bet!

Happy motoring!

Kirk
This is a Jay Leno interview with a Torco Rep.

It discusses what is wrong with modern day motor oil products, and how you can address the wear and tear issues occurring in both older car engines.....and newer car engines to stop or reduce wear due to the lack of anti-wear additives due to modern day car emission control systems that don't allow the use certain anti-wear additives of yesteryear that once protected our engines.

This interview implies that colloids shown in the second product are needed to replace those lost additives. Modern day colloids are better than zinc ever was, by reducing more friction....zinc just cost more! Zinc is what's discussed in the first product.

Colloids also stop those dry damaging cold starts that zinc couldn't even stop back in the day... as would be in the second product.

http://www.enginebuildermag.co...ay_lenos_garage.aspx
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


Cadillac/cts has just lowered their oci's on those models,and has been re-flashing the prom on vehicles in for service


And the proof is where................




Well?


You haven't backed up this "claim" yet.

I know, you can't.
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


Cadillac/cts has just lowered their oci's on those models,and has been re-flashing the prom on vehicles in for service


And the proof is where................




Well?


You haven't backed up this "claim" yet.

I know, you can't.


Trajan, where's that vehicle you claim a neighbour of yours has that blew up from using Synlube?

Well?

You haven't backed up that claim Yet.

Ya, I know, you can't. Wink Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
I remember way back........someone wanted to know why big oil was not sued......think again......this tells a different story.

The oil in question is a group III.......not the true synthetic group IV/V.

The oil filter was also blamed. That's why I use only depth filters with the backing support screen,or the new Bosch Distance depth filter. In either case, a group three oil can sludge and then block the filter putting the blame on the filter when the oil was at fault all along.

This would not have happened with a 100% PAO/GROUP IV/V OIL. No sludge,and no blocked filters....period! Just a super clean engine.

This engine below wasn't so lucky with the group III oil. The opposite of super clean!!


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1653077




Another fail for you. (BTW, I remember someone, not too long ago, saying "big oil" doesn't get sued. Some tripe about them being too big.

That same person should look up the word potential as well. I also wonder if that same person could explain the part colored in red. Guess that potential suit had no merit.)

"Mobil(e) 1's fault?!? Hardly, he's got ZERO case there. You don't have to be a Mobil fan to recognize that if it WERE a common contributor to sludge, we'd know about it here on BITOG. Its a perfectly adequate oil, and less likely to cause sludge than many, many other other oils out there." (It would be known here too.)

"He got the check cut from Nissan, not Mobil."


"The fact that Nissan is paying for the repair says to me that the cause was something within the engine or emissions control system"



You really should *read* these links first lad.

And, I know I'm asking the impossible, but you can prove M1 is a grp III? EM does not publicly discuss formulations.

Got that bulliten from GM that says the OCIs were reduced for the CTS?
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Trajan, where's that vehicle you claim a neighbour of yours has that blew up from using Synlube?

Well?

You haven't backed up that claim Yet.

Ya, I know, you can't. Wink Wink



inHaliburton.....Very good point. But remember....Trajen only makes demands for proof,and never provides any of his own.

We are also still waiting for trajen to back his claim that Mercedes Benz was recommending oil change intervals of 20,000 miles on petroleum oil. He failed on that one as well

It's for reasons like mentioned above and all of trajens other lies and slander is why I have placed him on my IGNORE list along with his alter ego...Nuke..where he will stay until/IF he mans up and quits with his DRIVEL!!!

Snakedoctor.... being trajens other screen name is next to be ignored if he resurfaces with drivel as well.
inHaliburton......This is trajens remark saying Mercedes Benz said to go 20k on dino oil.



quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:

And the proof is where................

You haven't shown anything that proves oil is the culprit.

Car mfgs have been sued over sludge issues. Not because of oil, but for faulty designs or wrong recommendations. (Mercedes equipment telling people they could go up to 20K on mineral oil for example.)

This thread itself gives the nod to good engine design, along with quality oil, meaning API certified, and reasonable oil changes, for the lack of sludge.

I know that you're attempting a synlube push through the back door, but no one is buying it.

Group III oil, such as Castrol, works just fine. So does a quality filter.
This is copied off an Amsoil site proving that Benz only specifies synthetic

<<<<<<Mercedes-Benz should be commended for specifying synthetic lubricants for their superior performance and for extending drains to minimize the adverse effects of used motor oil in the environment. As time goes on, there will be an increasing number of companies who will do the same. But that won't happen if the oil industry can help it. They are actively working to keep the status quo, promoting many more oil changes than necessary, wasting precious resources, and creating the need to dispose of more pollutants in form of used motor oil.>>>>>>>>

The Benz sludge/wear/issue/lawsuit is because customers installed cheap mineral based oil on a system/engine designed for synthetic...probably group IV/European spec.

The oil change monitor uses algorithms only.......it doesn't know when the owner installs the wrong oil. The dealers were at fault as well using cheapo bulk oil and this resulted in lawsuit.

There was an issue with Brake fluid years ago in the US causing issues in the Benz cars with brake system seals. When the Benz techs(USA)contacted overseas techs with the issue..... the first question asked by the German techs was............you guys are changing your customers brake fluid annually aren't you? The US tech response was............ummmm......what.....you guys change brake fluid in Europe every year!!! The US techs also didn't read the tech manual which did stipulate the brake fluid change interval.......go figure!!

Well...the Germans had to change the brake seal technology to deal with older brake fluid rather than stipulate annual brake fluid changes for the Americans who don't know any better. They assumed everyone did what they did....change brake fluid often/yearly. The German Brake fluid is also been improved longer drain intervals now days.

By the way.......I change my brake fluid every two years with Synthetic brake fluid. I could use the lifetime stuff which I did in the past......but salt corrosion ate through my break line causing me to bleed out the fluid. I use the cheap store bought synthetic dot 4 for now every two years.

The Moral of the story is that information doesn't always transfer overseas when it should...or incorrect assumptions are made leading to issues like above. However......all this proves is that top synthetic oil group IV/V is best!! The information/misinformation also finally does 'catch up' and resolve itself.

Now you might be interested how I know this story.........Well....I used to work for a Mercedes dealer.

I also used to be rep for many car dealers/shops in both selling and training of Diagnostic automotive equipment. Ever hear of Sun Electric or Snap on Tools? That was me!


Kirk
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by inHaliburton:
Captain, they don't answer my queries!

Could it be that I'm on their ignore list?



Trajen did mention you were on his ignore list on an earlier post.......who knows....who cares........I wouldn't even bother yourself with all that nonsense talk spewed by Him/them/whatever.

Remember,they,he(trajen,nuke) is on my ignore list.....I don't exchange any longer with them/him.

It makes no sense to exchange with their nonsense/drivel that is meant to distort good information/facts into whatever twisted bizarre agenda they are serving or amusing themselves with!!

They were only background noise anyway with all that drivel!

Now we can finally have strictly professional/sensible/friendly exchanges of information the way it should be.

Kirk
Last edited by captainkirk
inhal has his own answer.

Originally posted by inHaliburton:
Blah blah blah. Yada yada yada. Gimme gimme gimme. You have to gimme this. You have to gimme that. I dewmand to know this. I demand to know that. You owe me this, you owe me that. I need instant gratification. I behave just like my spoiled rotten teeny bopper kid.
pages—of the same old crap. I'm too lazy to read. Same blenders from schools of higher learning and weekend driveway oil changers types asking the same dumb old stuff. Mud slingers at best.

Describes you to a T.


Add to that, a propensity to post things that have nothing to do with a topic. What does a Z4 with a sludged up engine, not blown up as you claim, caused by synlube have to do with the fact that the engine of the OP is nice and clean?

Then we have kurk. Claims oil is the cause of sludge, and yet posts links that show otherwise.

Then makes claims that using a Grp IV or V oil will prevent it. (Never mind the claims that M1 is not a Grp IV, something that again he can't prove.)

Makes that claim, and yet uses synlube. Miro must be ticked off by now.

And still, no back up for that CTS claim. Very typical.
Last edited by trajan
Trajan: Kirk and the alter ego Inhaliburton, will never answer any questions, as these boobs don't have the answers.

I believe they post here, as they have been banned from all the other sites. They have been on better behaviour as of late, as they're probably down to their last chance here as well.

They will never post anything of relevance, but I give them credit for copying and pasting...Though they should read through, what they link, as it usually refutes any point, they were trying to make.
I know.

I don't see why this inhal person harps on the Z4. Strange that he demands what he and his alter ego fail to provide over and over.

Just for kicks, I asked the owner if he would give all the info wanted.

He said if they posted a nice letter apologizing for their attitude, and explain why, in detail, they need all this information, he'll consider it.

But, given the fact that one knows very little about oil, and the other isn't even savy enough to stay on topic, plus the overwhelming fact that neither have as yet proven a need to know, he is doubtful.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Taterandnoodles:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
Check this out regarding wear tests.


http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf


Well check this video out about using a timken (1 arm bandit) for product demonstation.

http://www.amsoil.com/video/AM...n_Series_Videos.aspx



Ok.......But Amsoil does show on their website what the 4172 four ball wear shows for most of their lubes. The original link I pasted seemed to indicated RP had the most EP protection.

Can you show otherwise.......what is the truth?

Check this out.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1589827
Yeh Kerk is totally lost as far as anything that requires up to date data. He cannot accept that sludge is not an issue.

He's kinda of like a Chatty Kathy Doll, you pull a string on it's chest and it blabs about sludge.

My vehicles are not infected with this sludge virus, nor any of my friends.

This sludge issue must be big among Yugo users thus the tendancy to use goop in the motors.

I believe the thread was started mentioning the complete lack of sludge in an engine. Perhaps the boob should start his own sludge thread where he and his alter ego (himself) can comment back and forth telling each other (himself) what a great post that was
From page six, one of his own links. It bears repeating.

Industry experts say modern engines are even more prone to sludge build up than older ones. So what’s the cause, and why is it making a comeback?

There are several key reasons.

Crankcase Ventilation.
Oil vapour and combustion gasses must be removed, usually by being channelled through the combustion process.
If these gasses are not disposed of efficiently, sludge will form. Some modern breather systems are more successful than others.

Temperature.
Changes to the positioning of the Catalytic Converter have led to changes in temperature, hot and cold spots, in and around the engine. Hot spots bake oil, cold spots cause acid and sludge.

Crankcase Acidity.
Modern fuels produce much more acid when burnt. A proportion of this acidity enters the crankcase. Experts say that long term engine wear is now as likely to be down to acidity as friction.

Tighter Tolerances.
Engines are no longer manufactured down to Thousandths but Microns. Tighter tolerances mean engines are
using less oil, and as a result customers fail to check levels and miss oil changes

Poor Maintenance.
Drivers who miss recommended oil changes are without doubt contributing to the problem. Lease vehicle drivers especially are quoted as being among the worst for neglecting DIY level checks.

City Driving.
Constant stop/start city driving accelerates sludge formation. Drivers who spend most of their time in urban traffi c should be advised to book oil change services more regularly.

If you do have a sludge prone engine, you should change the oil using the owners manual "severe service" guidelines.

If you want to run a PCMO 25,000 miles, do it. Just blame who you see in the mirror for any sludge or whatnot.
Looks like sludge/engine black death just won't go away!!!

http://www.wynnsnz.co.nz/show-news.php?id=23


The solution.........use 100% percent PAO Group IV/V synthetic.........or use cheap oil.........then get sludge...........and then flush it out(maybe), with expensive and harmful chemicals.

I say it's better to avoid it in the first place!

This is a quote......

Performance
[edit] Advantages

The technical advantages of synthetic motor oils include:[citation needed]

* Measurably better low and high temperature viscosity performance
* Better chemical & shear stability
* Decreased evaporative loss
* Resistance to oxidation, thermal breakdown and oil sludge problems
* Extended drain intervals with the environmental benefit of less oil waste.
* Improved fuel economy in certain engine configurations.
* Better lubrication on cold starts
* Longer engine life
Last edited by captainkirk
It's almost a 'No-Brainer'....that synthetic oil is this much better.......why even take a chance putting cheap oil in your engine that cost several thousand dollars alone?

I work hard for my money and want the best for engines. Synthetic oil is cheap insurance. Why risk it?

Check this out....

http://advancedlubetech.com/le...versus-petroleum-oil

This is another link that shows not only protection from sludge,but also 'dry starts'...

Dry damaging starts causes a good portion of the engine wear that occurs. This fact is another very important reason to use premium synthetics........to help lube the engine at start up. This might be just as important as sludge prevention..

http://www.carsdirect.com/car-...and-conventional-oil


This one is straight from Noria showing the benefits of synthetics. It shows sludge is an issue at the start of the article.

http://www.machinerylubricatio...nal-vs-synthetic-oil
Last edited by captainkirk
So my take Trajan is, if you follow oil change intervals, that are not outrageously long, then you should have no issues. This also requires the owner to keep up on maintenance.

This is a disposeable society today and cars along with just about everything else is marketed for a quick turnover. So people don't necessarily take care of what they own.

Todays modern dino oils are more than up to the task. If the car is spec'd for synthetic then use it. If the area in which you live in see's extreme's then it is of benefit.

My advice to someone reading these posts is don't listen to the hype, or the shill's who are close to being banned from this site. We know who those people (person) are/is.
Deltona Dave: Your pictures show what I would expect from an engine using quality dino's. Just another example that synthetic oils are not necessary for all.

Sludge is an overhyped issue plain and simple. The vast majority of cars on the road will never have an issue. I guess that is why the majority of cars do not use synthetic oils. Use dino oils with confidence if not required by vehicle make/model.
quote:
This is a disposeable society today and cars along with just about everything else is marketed for a quick turnover.



Disposable being the word when your engines blows up with sludge using a sludge prone mineral based oil.

SLUDGE = QUICK TURNOVER...........with mineral based oil. Good marketing strategy if you want to sell more cars.........use cheap mineral oil,and get a new car very soon. Very true indeed!

Synthetic oil = very slow turnover of cars. Bad marketing strategy if you want to sell more cars.

If you want to keep your car and save money........use 100% premium synthetic oil,not to mention the better fuel economy.
Yes Trajan the tendancy now is to lease vehicles to people who care not about upkeep. Like I have mentioned only a boob would recommend one type of oil for all.


If the vehicle requires synthetic, it is one thing, but only the ignorant would make a blanket statement.

Sludge is an issue for those lonely middle age men, desperately looking for attention on internet forums.

Haven't seen sludge nor has anybody I know.
Synthetic is better than mineral in almost every way, but costs more.

However if you don't have a high performance or exotic engine, or a known sludger, or sees severe service, or spends its life near the Artic circle, mineral oil will do just fine.

IMO anyway.

More important perhaps is using the correct viscosity.

My last two cars went 140k miles on 5-30 mineral oil with no sludge.

This one? Synthetic 0w-30 or 40 all the way.

Rule #1 with me is when I buy a used car, all the vital fluids get changed. This one was an exception as it was under the 4yr/50k warranty.
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