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Read our primer articles on High Mileage Oil, Synthetic Oil and Kinematic Viscosity

quote:
The dino oils being produced by 'REPUTABLE' firms however are much advanced from the oils of decades past...PERIOD.


If they are so advanced.......why all the sludge issues and commercials that continue when 'those' oils are used.

Destroyed..........I have proven every point very well. You have not!!!!

SO.... I am still waiting for your proof that you never show with meaning you are the one getting 'destroyed' as you like to call it.

Still waiting 'trajen'
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
For gas engines, anything below SJ is obsolete.

Diesels, below CF.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/API_ratings.pdf

Can't find fault with any of Deltona Dave's thoughts on the subject either.


The information you post is supposed to show proof of what if any. It's just a chart compiled by big oil.......that's all.........


Trajen........still waiting for the info with the Benz 20k oil on dino oil specified by Benz.

You know......this one.......

(Mercedes telling people they could go up to 20K on mineral oil for example.)
To use your oft spoke line...."Google it'"

Hint: Mercedes class action suit. One of those you yourself mentioned in an ill fated attempt to blame oil for all those class action suits over sludged engines.

You remember, all those suits against the suto makers for sludged engines due to bad design.

And still, you don't prove the Caddy claim.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
To use your oft spoke line...."Google it'"

Hint: Mercedes class action suit. One of those you yourself mentioned in an ill fated attempt to blame oil for all those class action suits over sludged engines.

You remember, all those suits against the suto makers for sludged engines due to bad design.


I have been pasting links a lot longer now and no longer say.... "google it".. That was then....this is now.

Post a link showing that proof like I have been.

Show me a 20,000 mile oil change interval link that states MB recommended that with dino oil as you assert!!!

You can't show the proof...it doesn't exist........you just made that info up to try and win a debate you are obviously losing!!!!

IN SUM.............YOU LOST!!!!!!!
If you're going to do 3-5k changes, I'd stick with the mineral.

It doesn't hurt to use that OCI with synthetic. Well, it does lighten the ole bank account. But if you get peace of mind.....

BMW went all synth @1998 or so. I'm not aware of any ACEA A3/B3 mineral, so it's a moot point for me anyway.

But mineral or synth, I've never, ever, had a sludge problem in any car, mower, or snow blower.

As for getting back to the subject..... API Mineral/Dino is not bad...... It isn't.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
Glad to see that you posted something relevant.

Those 20 year old posts, referencing SF oil, and then claiming it's relevant, made you look not to smart though.


The point was.............the popular science article at that time(1976).... proved synthetic oil can last a 100,000 miles done by a ford lubrication expert/guru.........that is the whole point..........you didn't get that!!!!!!!!

That article still stands as the most significant and largest to date!!!!

Now who is not looking too smart!!!!!!

The synthetic oil technology has only gotten better since then!!!!!


Here it is again........this is a bombshell by definition.

You have all been speechless over this blockbuster bombshell of information I noticed!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDvY4hmIuZg
quote:
Originally posted by Nucleardawg:
@ Kirk: DUH..Yes synthetic oils have only gotten better...Tell us something we don't know...But guess what...So have mineral oils...Your still not to smart.


Nuke/Trajen.....You are now on my ignore list for being unprofessional......you have been notified!!!!!!!! I will now only have sensible dialogue and intelligent exchanges!!
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
quote:
(Mercedes telling people they could go up to 20K on mineral oil for example.)



You have failed to give any proof ever..........like the 20k Benz remark above for starters............still waiting trajen. That was a bold remark/lie.....you can't back!!!!!

kirk


My dear fellow, I've done that in one of the locked threads. It was one of many suits launched by consumers against car makers concerning sludge due to faulty engine design/recommendations.

For someone who has yet to prove claims such as the CTS reduced OCI, or how all those sludge suits were due to oil, you have chutzpah.

https://forums.noria.com/eve/fo...=614104214#614104214

I guess you fogot that one? We'll ignore the fact that you falsely claimed to use your real identity.

Now, about that Cadillac reducing OCIs on the CTS...........

All in all, there has been nothing that refutes the OP's points.
Last edited by trajan
This is what I am talking about.

NEW STANDARDS ......the old didn't work well

Real world data is the best as described below using Dynos!! The old way of collecting data was not reliable!!!

GF-5 Issues
Most of the issues surrounding the coming GF-5 oil standard have to do with engineering test procedures that are obsolete or need to be changed. The current Sequence IV-B fuel economy test, which is done in a laboratory on a test bench, will have to be replaced with some type of engine dynamometer test that more accurately simulated real-world driving conditions. The new test procedure should be ready by early next year.

GF-5 may also require reducing phosphorous and sulfur even more to extend the life of the catalytic converter to 150,000 miles and beyond. Phosphorous and sulfur can contaminate the catalyst and reduce the life of the converter if the engine uses oil. But both of these ingredients are also important anti-wear agents, so the fear is that reducing phosphorous and sulfur too much may end up reducing the life of the engine itself.

There are already concerns that today’s levels of phosphorous may be too low for older pushrod engines with flat tappet camshafts. Camshafts with flat-bottom lifters generate a lot more friction between the cam lobes and lifters than roller cams with roller lifters. Consequently, cam lobe wear in older engines may be a problem if the oil does not contain adequate levels of anti-wear agents, or if the oil is not changed regularly.


IN SUM ............Motor oil may be developing more issues in the very near future(next year) then less issues. It's all about the EPA and environmental issues which is what led to all the motor oil sludge issues due to the emission systems on the cars choking down the engines ability to breathe and less than ideal oil formulations to deal with it!!

Now car engines will be dealing with wear and tear issues on this new standard.....besides the sludge issues. The sludge issues might be less...........but more wear on your engine is no better,and even worse!! Can you say, "look at my clean..worn out..almost new engine" !!!!

Let me guess.....when that happens you'll say....."bad engine"......."good oil"...."sue the automakers again for something the oil did" Well........you've been warned!!!

I won't have any issues because I will be using...............

High tech synthetic oils group IV/V with all the 'right stuff'......
Last edited by captainkirk
This is a good info from Noria.

Bottom line is that technology is evolving......so use the best synthetic oil possible.. GROUP IV/V


"""Typical issues that have occurred at least with the imports are because of the dealer/shop installing 'bulk oil' in a car that was engineered to run on a group IV/V SYNTHETIC. The cars on board software doesn't know cheap oil from really good oil. The European cars/design are from countries that use true Synthetics. The issues in this country(USA)have not been occurring any longer in Europe. They learned their lessons back in the 80's with black death.

The History Of Engine Sludge



A vast majority of us have never seen engine sludge, unless you happen to be a mechanic who works on neglected vehicles on a daily basis. As we will see below, there is nothing worse for a mechanic to deal with than engine sludge (at least on an intact engine). Believe it or not, engine sludge gets the moniker “Black Death” from the place where the real Black Death occurred in medieval times: Europe. During the 1980s, European drivers of Ford and Chevrolet autos began to complain that their auto’s engines were seizing up unexpectedly, even if they had performed the proper maintenance on their autos. Obviously, something was amiss here and it didn’t take The History Of Engine Sludge

 A vast majority of us have never seen engine sludge, unless you happen to be a mechanic who works on neglected vehicles on a daily basis. As we will see below, there is nothing worse for a mechanic to deal with than engine sludge (at least on an intact engine). Believe it or not, engine sludge gets the moniker “Black Death” from the place where the real Black Death occurred in medieval times: Europe. During the 1980s, European drivers of Ford and Chevrolet autos began to complain that their auto’s engines were seizing up unexpectedly, even if they had performed the proper maintenance on their autos. Obviously, something was amiss here and it didn’t take automotive experts long to figure out that it had something to do with [i] [B]ENGINE OIL]""""

This is the NORIA READ....

http://www.machinerylubricatio...hange-filter-sensors
Last edited by captainkirk
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Trajan:
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


Cadillac/cts has just lowered their oci's on those models,and has been re-flashing the prom on vehicles in for service


And the proof is where................




Well?


How typical of you, Trajan­. When backed into a corner, you completely ignore what is presented, then you throw out a smokescreen of nonsense to take off the heat.

Well? Well? Well? Well?
My own opinion Kirk is that using a quality dino with moderate oil change intervals no sludge issue would be present.

A irresponsible owner of a vehicle can be another reason for sludge.

Personally I have never owned a vehicle with a sludged engine. Marketing likes to play us, drumming into our heads, if were not using brand x, then watch out here come 'Da Sludge'
On all my current vehicles I use Redline or Mobil 1 EP, except for the Ranger which sees a quality dino.

These are both excellent quality synthetics and I don't mind paying a higher price for them.

That being said I could run only quality dino's and i'm certain the engines would be just as spotless.

I guess in the end if you own a vehicle that is known to sludge...use a synthetic oil and follow reasonable oil change intervals...
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:


I won't have any issues because I will be using...............

High tech synthetic oils group IV/V with all the 'right stuff'......


At least you're dumping that synlube.

Now, about that Cadillac reducing ocis??????

All the obsolete information and dodging does not alter the facts.

The OP's mower engine is fine.

The use of API mineral/dino is fine.

A good engine design along with reasonable oil changes and the use of approved oil goes a long way in combating sludge.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
This BITOG thread talks about 'BLACK DEATH' engine sludge/deposits and why some are using European 100% PAO in their European rides.

Those oil change monitors are calibrated for it!!!

http://webcache.googleusercont...&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


just as bad about bringing up issue that happened a long, long time ago...... your link.

Explain why it isn't mentioned in the present. You know, 2010.

The 15k miles done with Gr III oil, spec 5w-30, and the lack of sludge I've dealt with.

got a cheap product bulk oil from their local home improvement centers
they also did extended drains without considering the consequences. Negligence is an ubiquitous problem.

your link.

Don't know why you bring up the 1980s or 90s when the year is 2010.We don't use oil from the 1980s, or even the 1940s for that matter.

Doesn't change the facts stated by the OP.
Last edited by trajan
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kirk:
If you need more proof.........how about over a million hits..........


NAYSAYERS JUST HATE PROOF!!! THE TRUTH HURTS!!!!!!! ALWAYS DOES!!!!

http://www.google.com/search?h...sludge&start=10&sa=N

http://www.google.com/search?h...+death&start=10&sa=N


Every time you post things like this, you torpedo your own position.

To wit: While sludge often results from poor upkeep, notably not changing the oil at prescribed intervals, some engines appear more prone to sludge buildup than others *If it was the oil as you like to claim, all of them would be, despite TLC.*

Engine failure due to sludge is a major problem for car owners, and automakers appear to have been slow to address it, generally linking it to poor maintenance rather than to a problem with the engine *no mention of inferior oil here.*

Toyota staunchly maintained that any such "oil-gel" problems are attributable to owners' abuse or poor maintenance habits *Note that Toyota doesn't blame the oil*.

I've already covered the class action suits...

And from one of your other links:

Industry experts say modern engines are even more prone to sludge build up than older ones. So what’s the cause, and why is it making a comeback?

There are several key reasons.

Crankcase Ventilation.
Oil vapour and combustion gasses must be removed, usually by being channelled through the combustion process.
If these gasses are not disposed of efficiently, sludge will form. Some modern breather systems are more successful than others.

Temperature.
Changes to the positioning of the Catalytic Converter have led to changes in temperature, hot and cold spots, in and around the engine. Hot spots bake oil, cold spots cause acid and sludge.

Crankcase Acidity.
Modern fuels produce much more acid when burnt. A proportion of this acidity enters the crankcase. Experts say that long term engine wear is now as likely to be down to acidity as friction.

Tighter Tolerances.
Engines are no longer manufactured down to Thousandths but Microns. Tighter tolerances mean engines are
using less oil, and as a result customers fail to check levels and miss oil changes

Poor Maintenance.
Drivers who miss recommended oil changes are without doubt contributing to the problem. Lease vehicle drivers especially are quoted as being among the worst for neglecting DIY level checks.

City Driving.
Constant stop/start city driving accelerates sludge formation. Drivers who spend most of their time in urban traffi c should be advised to book oil change services more regularly.

Don't see any blame on oil there either.
@ Trajan: Thanks for the last post, informative

You will not get any answer concerning the Cadillac...But you know that.

Modern dino oils are vastly superior to the oils of yester year...Anyone who would deny that, well is just plain ignorant...

As you mentioned if you have a known vehicle that uses a engine that is prone to sludge, your going to have to reduce the oil change interval, faulty or poorly designed PCV systems can be attributed to this issue.
Again, from one of his links: Used-car shoppers should also realize that even the most complained-about engines represented less than 1 percent of those made, so the odds of avoiding such a car are in your favor.

Consumers who own cars with sludge-prone engines should change the oil according to the “extreme use” schedule in the owner’s manual.

This is at the top of his list: http://www.consumerreports.org...e/overview/index.htm

So, here's a question. Why all those V6 3.0ls on the list?

I have a 3.0L I6, and it isn't on the list.

Don't see any Fords on the list. Or GMs either. If it's an oil problem, why not?
This is interesting.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...wflat&Number=1874216

Chevrolet Camaro 3.6L (6 quart crankcase) meeting GM Standard GM6094M - Dino:

Why spec dino if it's bad?

Nice to see a bigger capacity though. helps with longer drains et al.

That link also has links to the manual for that and the CTS. And, no mention of the OCI being cut.

This is me being surprised...........
Last edited by trajan
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