Supertech synthetic oil from Walmart

Particular oil probably is not as good as Mobil 1 but, if it's based on PAO (label should tell you that!), it is better than Castrol Syntec. Why? Castrol Syntec is hydrocracked petroleum oil with little bit less disadvantages (over synthetics) than ordinary petroleum oil.
This doesn't mean that Mobil 1 is "the best one". There are better motor oils on the market.

Jason ,

The API SM Walmart synthetic is built with entirely PAO as far as I can tell . It's a bargain and can be used with confidence to around 5k miles in most engines , just depends on the type service and climate , engine ****** ect.

S-e-r-i-e-s was bleeped out

Whatta hoot

M1 ???????????

question to all purveyors of " synthetic oils". has anyone ever read a paper or seen in print anywhere,an article concerning a synthetic zinc,phosperous,boron,calcium,magnesium,etc all of which are part of the additive pak. which is the heart and soul of any motor oil or gear lube or transmission fluid, or bearing grease etc.without these non-synthetic ingredients no engine, trans.,ring and pinion,wheel bearing,universal joint,cv joint,etc;would last for 50 miles.a world reknown surgeon is not very effective without his instruments and assistants. likewise a" full synthetic " has the same effect ;especially where internal combustion engines are involved.

kelly,

Permit me to use your "surgeon" analogy and ask you a question: Providing that all assistants and surgical instruments are the same… wouldn’t you look to pick a better surgeon among all available before you lie down and let him stab you with a scalpel? The same is with oils. If additives are the same (as they are pretty much) in all motor, wouldn’t you choose the oil blended with better base oil?

my point is not wheather a"synthetic"is better or "mineral". my point is, the additive pak itself is not synthetic.my contention is , a"full synthetic" is not "full" unless these essential ingredients are being produced in synthetic form.

quote:

Originally posted by kelly tidwell:
... a"full synthetic" is not "full" unless these essential ingredients are being produced in synthetic form.

You mean: motor oil? “Full” is just marketing term and it has nothing with motor oil composition. Blended and mineral oils are “full of additives” too and according your explanation we shouldn’t be surprised with “full mineral oil” label.

i mean the terminology "full synthetic"should reflect exactly what is in the bottle.i am neither pro nor con synthetic or mineral ,however conventional motor oil does not have misnomers on the label.as far as the fluid is concerned neither product has independant status without the additive pak.the majority of artifically created motor oils use a group 3 base stock which is absolutely mineral oil,although their product is labeled "full synthetic".i do not want to adress product names. it is just possible that this could marketing ploy?

Terminologies such as "full synthetic" or “synthetic blend” or “premium mineral oil” refer only to base oil, and not to additives. Group-3 oils are often called “synthetic”, not because of their origin, but because of their characteristics, which are comparable to some man-made products. These terms are not based on any particular scam by the individual oil companies. Instead, they were set up by the API (American Petroleum Institute) that everyone uses. Anyhow, one should not get overly picky and get bogged down too much about those terms. Try to understand their (oil companies) position, too. They are in a fierce competition for consumers, and one should tried to understand what would the consequences be if they would just laid out blending composition of their product, with which they intend to get the upper hand on the very competitors.

As for the additives, the only terminology that refers to “synthetic” additives is the term “ashless”, which means that the additives in certain product (most frequently referred to turbine oils and hydraulic fluids) are non-metallic based, or man-made.

i respect your opinion on what "full" implies on a bottle of motor oil;however i don't think api had as much to do with "full" on a motor oil label as did a judge.while you and i may understand why group-3 is often referred to as man made the average consumer is totally un-aware. the"small print"is much too small.the prolongs and slick-50's of the world have been spanked for misleading consumers by false claims; do you really feel it is ok for motor oil producers/marketers to imply that because their product claims "full synthetic" on the label that there is some magical element inside? and because of this magical ingredient they can surely use this oil for up to 50,000 miles as is touted by several "full synthetic" marketers? my lay opinion is "all marketers of synthetic lubricating fluids should display on the label either front or back, exactly what % of synthesis creation is in that bottle.it is done with other consumer products, whiskey,wine , fruit drinks, all express what % of alcohol or real juice is contained within.i have no war with synthetic fluids,but playing with words simply for personal gains is wrong.kind of like the guy who looked into the tv camera and said"I DID NOT HAVE *** WITH THAT WOMAN",all because of his opinion of what the word *** should mean.

James C.Fitch has written a book called "How to select A Motor oil and Filter for your car or Truck". It can be purchased by going to Noria.com's book store.It is a good read and I trust you will find it interesting.

kelly,

I completely understand your request for transparency in declarations of motor oils. I just don’t see it’s going to happen any time soon. Anyhow, I personally would never leave the same oil for 50,000 miles regardless what anybody says. Changing oil is way too cheaper. Also, there are certain standards motor oil should meet. And if it does meet it, than I really don’t care if it is fully synthetic or Group-3 oil. I am not going to jeopardize $40,000 value by saving $50 on skipped oil change. Declarations for food is somewhat different, even I agree with you that it should be treated the same. However, I also don’t trust the expiration dates on milk jugs, and I go out and buy new one when the old one is three days old, no mater what the print says. Consumers should have some common sense.

quote:

Originally posted by John Micetic:
... I personally would never leave the same oil for 50,000 miles regardless what anybody says. Changing oil is way too cheaper ... I am not going to jeopardize $40,000 value by saving $50 on skipped oil change.

Your disbelief in manufacturer's claims about extended drain interval is understandable, but (only) oil analysis is proven method to confirm or deny them. Besides acquiring a trust into (particular) manufacturer’s claim you'll have (very) pragmatic view into engine condition. That is “the tool” for making a selection between manufacturers by eliminating dishonest ones (if there are).
Complying with time based oil analysis is nothing else that giving money away. By my opinion worse of that is to arbitrarily decide about time for oil change. Should we believe that you have (much) better tests and methods than laboratories?

Djordan,

I am talking here about my little beetle TDI, and not of a fleet. Therefore, it is out of question for me to do oil analysis, as it’d cost me more than buying filter and new oil and get busy for half an hour. I disagree with you that arbitrary oil change is bad, and here is why. It is my own decision when to change the oil, and I do it at least twice a year. The change is not based solely on mileage (around 7,000 miles/year), but rather on season (one change in late spring and another in late fall). After reading post here I was intrigued to try new Amsoil but am discouraged when found out I can get it only by mail(?). So I will be sticking to Castrol 5W-40 for now.

quote:

am discouraged when found out I can get it only by mail

There are thousands of Amsoil dealers. Go to the amsoil.com homepage and search for one in your area. HERE IS THE LINK TO DEALER LOCATOR

btw-Amsoil is not new, they have been in business since 1972.

john, i work in the lubricant industry and my company attends several industry shows per year.conversing one on one with consumers i am constantly told by "john q public"that his purchase of xyz "full synthetic" in essence guarantees his oil to be completely serviceable for light years.i have personally listened to some of the sales pitches that are used and they are really mis-leading.so much is touted about the equal-sized molecules and the extreme low pour point that it would be easy for the average person to be pulled in.as we know many companies believe anything is fair in sales pitches to the general public; no matter how mis-leading.if an oil bottle had a label which read "22%, or 24%" full synthetic the consumer could at least have an indicator.the same applies to "mineral/dino oil" as well i.e.this bottle contains x % pure mineral oil.

John,

having in mind this

quote:

Originally posted by John Micetic:
... I am not going to jeopardize $40,000 value by saving $50 on skipped oil change...

you're wrong!

Oil analysis is going to cost you ~$20 and for that money you'll have written proof that nothing wrong is currently happening in your engine. Therefore, regardless of "having a fleet" you're going to save ~$25 if you put new oil filter. Moreover, doing by this way you can not speak about jeopardizing your investment at all because nothing is based on suppositions, predictions or mysterious game. Along with performing oil & engine check you’re making separation between honest and dishonest & less good, good and excellent oil manufacturers. For your future reference, if nothing else.

Speaking about Amsoil I can assure you that “mail discomfort” (UPS actually) is worth of motor oil quality. For your beetle TDI recommendation is: “as much as OEM recommends without oil analysis”. It can be (and would be!) extended with oil analysis. On the other side I am (more than) sure that you can find dealer close to you so you can have oil without US Post involved.

The US Mail keeps getting mentioned and its probably just a figure of speach but in any case, Amsoil does not ship any products thru the mails. Its used UPS for all but large shipments.

I looked and got many dealer in the Portland area, so if he really wanted to find it, he could with a phone call.

Kelly,

How about a label that says 100% synthetic? Or does it have to say 100% full synthetic to meet your standards? Or how about 100% half synthetic?

I am sorry, guys, but the oil company that sells exclusively through small dealers, reminds me of the Avon cosmetics company that sells their products only by dealers from door to door. I just cannot consider them as the legit company and trust superiority of their products to readily available oils at department and other big stores, where they all compete for my attention. Only when I see Amsoil oil on the shelf next to Mobil, Chevron, Valvoline, Castrol, and other brands, then, and only then would I consider it. Call me old-fashioned if you wish, but all that oil mailing business is crap, and doesn’t interest me.

quote:

Only when I see Amsoil oil on the shelf next to Mobil, Chevron, Valvoline, Castrol, and other brands, then, and only then would I consider it.

Mobil and others sell through chain stores because it is a commodity oil and because the company doesn't have a network of dealers to be loyal to, they are only loyal to thier bottom line. AMSOIL doesn't sell through chain stores because they have loyalty to their dealer network. WalMart, Pepboys and Autozone have ALL inquired about putting AMSOIL on the shelf at their stores. AMSOIL has turned them all down. The Wal-Mart deal alone was worth nearly $50 million dollars.

AMSOIL chose not to go that route because it would put their dealer network out of business. Once AMSOIL's dealer network is out of business, their remaining outlets (chain stores) would then be able to dictate price. Pretty soon, AMSOIL has to dummy down their product just like every other commodity oil to be able to offer it for the price Wal-Mart (or any other chain store) is willing to pay. If they don't, their retail outlet simply takes them off the shelf and the company goes under.

Amsoil has double digit annual growth pattern for the last decade to now over 100 million annually so they must be doing something right. They don't ahve stock holders to answer to and thus can strive to put out the best product.

If you don't want to use, thats fine but leave it at that and refrain from negative comments.

quote:

...I just cannot consider them as the legit company and trust superiority of their products to readily available oils at department and other big stores, where they all compete for my attention. Only when I see Amsoil oil on the shelf next to Mobil, Chevron, Valvoline, Castrol, and other brands, then, and only then would I consider it. Call me old-fashioned if you wish, but all that oil mailing business is crap, and doesn’t interest me.

John,
If you really want to try something new (Amsoil this time) there is no obstacle which is going to stop you. So, I can tell that you are just looking excuses for not doing it and let me explain why I am telling it. You begun with “$50 for missed oil change” and “jeopardizing (of) $40.000 investment”, not even saying a word about oil analysis as the most reliable method in engine maintenance and than you skipped to Avon cosmetic and “old fashioning”.
I have to admit that Amsoil’s sales policy is upsetting sometimes and I can assure you that dealers are affected more than customers if they want to please customers. But, all of us have to accept that they are doing it by same way for 34 years. And they are doing it very, very successfully without advertising campaigns at all. It’s part of their policy as much as demand for ultimate quality. All of us are different and it is OK if you are one of “intolerant/old fashioned guys” but believe me that you are one who is going to miss possibility of trying amazing product(s).
Finding you at these pages should tell us that you are not ordinary consumer. Debating with other forum members should sharpen your mind and help you in making decisions about car maintenance. So, please, do not generously identify yourself as a guy who is admired with fancy advertising and because of that can not notice other facts such as comparative test results for instance. Be pragmatic – not conformist! Try http://www.amsoil.com/dealerlocatorresults/ link, find the closest dealer, call him/her and you’ll have your oil brought at your doorstep. At least it is the way how I would do it with new customer!

Nothing can turn me off of a product or a service more than dealers with arrogant attitude can do. That is probably the main reason why I prefer to shop for oil at places where I can examine and compare data printed on the side of bottles from different manufacturers before I decide which one to buy. Avon-type resale of goods simply doesn’t interest me. We live in capitalism, which means growth, quality, expanding markets, and profits. Therefore, IMO, statements implying that a company doesn’t want to expand its market because of its steadfast loyalty to its small business dealers is a hogwash.

my point is the label should accurately reflect what is in the bottle.regardless of what the catergory is.100 % apple juice should be exactly that;if not the label should read 75% apple juice and 25% xyz.it is simply about TRUTH.i am not picking on anyones oil, anti-freeze,breakfast cereal,etc.simply tell the whole truth,no omissions,no self serving alterations.surely that cannot injure anyones business?once upon a time only politians played with words.

quote:

Originally posted by John Micetic:
Nothing can turn me off of a product or a service more than dealers with arrogant attitude can do. That is probably the main reason why I prefer to shop for oil at places where I can examine and compare data printed on the side of bottles from different manufacturers before I decide which one to buy.

Well, I have been staying out of this debate but this statement alone is forcing me to reply. Do you get different oil bottles then everyone else? What is this magic data you speak of? Last time I checked a oil bottle it had no "data" on it, only spec numbers. If you really want to compare lubricants then speaking with a salesman in person is the only way to go. They can provide you with hard data in writing about all the test that the lubricant has gone through and what the test results are. I know when I speak with a potential lubricant's customer that's what I do. Show them the test results compared to all other major manufacturers and then let the customer decide. I let the "data" speak for itself.

quote:

Avon-type resale of goods simply doesn’t interest me. We live in capitalism, which means growth, quality, expanding markets, and profits. Therefore, IMO, statements implying that a company doesn’t want to expand its market because of its steadfast loyalty to its small business dealers is a hogwash.

So, that must mean tools like Snap On, Mac and Matco are no good either, right? If you really think about it the "best" products are never available in the chain stores. Cars, furniture, electronics, lubricants, food, etc... To get the best there is you get them through a salesman and not at some chain store junk seller. As far as growth goes I can't think of one specialty lubricant manufacturer that doesn't think about growth and profit. They are no different than anyone else. The only real difference with any specialty manufacturer is that they market differently than regular run of the mill manufacturers do. As for quality I don't think you will find any better quality then you will from specialty lubricant manufacturers. Unlike large corporations they actually take pride in what they make.

Responding to:
"the oil company that sells exclusively through small dealers."
-is not accurate. Amsoil Inc. has Retail-On-The-Shelf accounts where a limited number of Amsoil product options are displayed and available alongside similiar motor oils.

"Only when I see Amsoil oil on the shelf next to Mobil, Chevron, Valvoline, Castrol, and other brands, then, and only then would I consider it."
- I guess you'll be considering it, because it can be seen in some stores, as long as the 12 or less stores of a chain have a Retail-On-The-Shelf A/C w/ Amsoil Inc. (This is a company policy)

"Nothing can turn me off of a product or a service more than dealers with arrogant attitude can do."
- Some skeptics are tough cookies as well.

quote:

Originally posted by John Micetic:
... Therefore, IMO, statements implying that a company doesn’t want to expand its market because of its steadfast loyalty to its small business dealers is a hogwash.

Your personal interpretation is that "company doesn't want to expand market". Reality is, as you stated, that ("in capitalism") all companies exist because of customers and expanding markets but there are so many different ways of doing it. Amsoil has its own way of reaching and taking care (notice this difference!) of customers. If you do not like it go into your favorite store and “examine and compare data printed on the side of bottles from different manufacturers”.
Some of facts what you, for sure, will not find at bottles are that Castrol sells you petroleum oil (“synthetic hydrocarbon”, view Syntec MSDS ) as “full synthetic Syntec” motor oil (http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf); that in bottle of “100% synthetic” Mobil 1 oil there actually is “small percentage” of 9.8 to 19.2% of petroleum oil and that Pennzane (“developed for and used by NASA”) as main ingredient in Pennzoil’s synthetic oil (sells for ~4$) costs ~$400 per US quart. Despite “NASA technology”, last one “premium oil” is still recommended for 3.000 mi oil change!

It is for sure that if you try you can find store with all your favorite brands accompanied with Amsoil. There is no reason why should be Detroit (where I found two stores with all Amsoil products on the shelves) different from Portland.

the bottle of motor oil you are displaying IS NOT FULL SYNTHETIC!that is my point.that product contains,calcium, zinc,phosphorus,boron,sulphur, and other ingredients which are not synthetic.

quote:

Originally posted by kelly tidwell:
the bottle of motor oil you are displaying IS NOT FULL SYNTHETIC!...

So, the same logic used for petroleum oils should tell us that they are not 100% petroleum?

why is it sooooooo difficult to understand that I AM NOT PICKING ON AMSOIL,OR SYNTEC,OR MOBIL 1,2,3 OR WHO EVER.i am simply saying .....DON'T SAY FULL SYNTHETIC IF IT IS NOT "FULL" "plain jane" dino motor oil does NOT claim te be 100 % mineral oil on the label;it simply states the viscosity and A.P.I classification. it could say " SEMI- SYNTHETIC" but it does not. full anything; indicates to the average red blooded person that what ever is in a particular package is 100 % made up of what ever is declared on the outside label to be inside the durn package..i am sorry but i do not grasp why this angers or creates arguments with people about TRUTH ON THE LABEL?? i have not heard a complaint from people who sell semi-synthetic labeled motor oil.they are most assuredly more truthful about the contents of their packages.once more i am NOT taking sides with mineral oil over synthetic oil nor the other way; but if the bottle is 60,70,or 99% "full"then the label should express the same, unless the mfgr. is concerned that the absolute "TRUTH" will hurt their sales which should not be the case if the product, what ever it may be is for real.

quote:

indicates to the average red blooded person that what ever is in a particular package is 100 % made up of what ever is declared on the outside label to be inside the durn package.

Its says oil, thats what in the bottle. The exact makeup is propritary info and no company is going to divulge that. No tot mention that number of chemicals could number in 100's + the additives used come from other suppliers and they are made of many chemicals. Putting all this on a lable would only confuse.

ou are being unrealistic IMO.


Synthetic - (Function: noun) Something resulting from synthesis rather than occurring naturally; especially : a product (as a drug or plastic) of chemical synthesis.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeR:
[QUOTE]indicates to the average red blooded person that what ever is in a particular package is 100 % made up of what ever is declared on the outside label to be inside the durn package.
Its says oil, thats what in the bottle. The exact makeup is propritary info and no company is going to divulge that. No tot mention that number of chemicals could number in 100's + the additives used come from other suppliers and they are made of many chemicals. Putting all this on a lable would only confuse.

ou are being unrealistic IMO.
mike, i am curious why you have so much animosity about "truth" on a label.possibly you would spend money on 100% synthetic gold plated lead?

Synthetic - (Function: noun) Something resulting from synthesis rather than occurring naturally; especially : a product (as a drug or plastic) of chemical synthesis.

p.s.,i also have a dictionary and the term, "FULL"IS EXPLAINED BY WEBSTER TO MEAN,"CONTAINING ALL THAT IS POSSIBLE OR NORMAL,#2 COMPLETE IN EVERY DETAIL,#3 OF MAXIMUM DEGREE," possibly this does not apply to labels on certain items?i will wrestle with this no longer.

quote:

Originally posted by kelly tidwell:
why is it sooooooo difficult to understand that I AM NOT PICKING ON AMSOIL,OR SYNTEC,OR MOBIL 1,2,3 OR WHO EVER.i am simply saying .....DON'T SAY FULL SYNTHETIC IF IT IS NOT "FULL" ...

I do not think that you are picking on Amsoil, Castrol, ... or who ever.
I just think that your personal qualifiers are too high and that you have to adjust them. Mathematically - you're right. None of mentioned products is 100% (of something). But, if you keep same qualifiers and (strictly) apply them for surrounding things in real life very few products will fulfill conditions. Pure (equals 100%) mountain water won't be that (because of dissolved minerals), new declaration on pure milk bag will for sure prevent everybody of purchasing it, pure fruit juice will became solution of squeamish ingredients, pure (Starbucks) coffee will be(come) soooo gruesomely, ... We can go on and on.

Speaking about motor oil it would be easier for all of us to keep current qualifiers which actually show us what product is made of. 100% means that base oil for particular product, before putting adequate additives, is pure PAO. Percentage is not there for final product!

quote:

Contact Us | Noria Corporation | Terms of Service

one more thought before i quit this.my standards of acceptance is not a question;i want to recieve what i pay for. howevef i do not like to have some one B.S. me for personal gain. i am for sure "old fashioned"; but don't put a cadillac grill on a yugo and try to pass it off as something it is not.i have a real PROBLEM WITH ANY PRODUCT WHICH OPENLY DISGUISES IT'S SELF.if there is nothing to hide,if there is no financial motivation involved, then simply call the product what it really is.the attitude i am deriveing from your post is,that the truth would be too involved and that a label stateing 70, 80, or 99% "full"would have no useful purpose. i am posiyive that companies who sell 24 KARAT GOLD PLATED jewellery would love to have the same privalege as FULL synthetic motor oil.and in closing this subject would anyone purchase a ring , watch, necklace, etc, and pay a premium price as for pure gold knowing it was only plated????

kelly,

Your latest analogy is awesome. However, there is one huge difference. You don’t throw away your gold ring or necklace after wearing them for a year or so…. As far as Amsoil oil, I might be mistaken, but after looking at their products spec sheets I was not able to find out what type of base oil they use for blending their “synthetic” oil. Just noting “full sinthetic” doesn’t cut it. If it is PAO, then let see it on labels. Disguising this info could not be justified by any “proprietary” reasons. I can understand they don’t want to publish additives composition and their amount and balance. Also, what the statement “The first in synthetics” refers to, to today’s products or to the past? If it refers to them as being first to get involved with synthetics in the past, it doesn’t mean much to me, because I can name many US companies who broke ground in many fields, including electronics, and auto-moto fields, but their products today are inferior to the same or similar products manufactured in Japan or Europe or Korea.

quote:

Originally posted by John Micetic:
... As far as Amsoil oil, I might be mistaken, but after looking at their products spec sheets I was not able to find out what type of base oil they use for blending their “synthetic” oil. Just noting “full sinthetic” doesn’t cut it. If it is PAO, then let see it on labels. ...

My Dear John,
You’re sooooo inexperienced in synthetic motor oils! If any company at this world is proud of showing PAO symbol at label - it would be Amsoil. If you had particular product in your hands (but, you do not want to bother with UPS and phoning to dealer) person like you, who like to read labels and compare characteristics, would notice that symbol either at front or back label. You can not overlook it! This attempt to (once more) discredit Amsoil was “100% miss”.
BTW: “First in synthetic” is not pure statement – it’s company’s motto! Unique one as other companies have them. As a statement it means the most experienced company in this field, the first one who introduced tens of important products and standards and the first one in accomplished test results. All of that means quality, isn’t it?

FYI



All of Amsoil premium synthetics are GR. IV PAO oils

Djordan, MikeR,

Thank you for this info. I was yesterday in J I Joe store, and I found Amsoil bottles on a shelve. However, I did not see PAO logo on the front label nor within the "tiny” prints on the back, where I expected to be mentioned …. “blended with PAO”…or something to that effect. BTW, looking now at the picture of a BOX that your submitted, it appears that this PAO logo is shown only on the box, and not on a part picturing the oil bottle. Stupid me, I should have been asking clerks to show me boxes of Amsoil oil so I can see such logo, because there is none printed on the bottles labels. Or, am I wrong here? Also, MSDS sheets (updated in Oct 06), in which content I believe more than what is ONLY on the label of the BOX, do not mentioned PAO as the base stock. And all your barking how I try to discredit Amsoil is pure BS. You can try this hogwash to shut up someone else, but not me. Show me where this PAO logo is presented on Amsoil bottles, and in MSDS, and if is not there, why not?